Karaoke Forums

@ Brian... I'm glad to hear your Wife's treatment worked.

glad to hear about your wife Brian. Mine is 9 months out of chemo, radiation and dbl mastectomy for breast cancer so i understand the immediate change of priorities.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

For individual tracks? I don't think that will be happening any time soon. In any case, all it needs is a stolen source and the cat is out of the bag. And compromised computers with music are legion.

Time after time technology appears to have the edge, and time after time the edge is negated. I wouldn't hold my breath for a silver bullet.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

All they would need is a screen/audio capture software which would create a new file regardless of what original encryption existed basically erasing anything that was watermarked before. Unless it was embedded in a video, anything else could be overwritten.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Of course the tracks could be recorded, but that's not the point. The packets would still be in the copied audio stream, so the tracks could be traced back to the license (dongle) holder as the originating source of the copy. Potentially capturing pirates red handed.

For example you have packets going in at 221Hz, 1783Hz, 2998Hz, 6376Hz, 13,542Hz etc.(spread spectrum) at an unobtrusive level, and recurring at different times throughout the entire audio track. I guess one could try and mask them with noise, but then tracks full of white noise are not going to be very desirable.

How many songs would fit on this dongle?? Are we talking about one dongle or replacing all our discs with dongles??

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Dongle is a license key, but I suspect you know that. As to your comedic skills, please don't quit your day job just yet.

No way to totally control the rampant piracy on content that already exists, well other than pursuing trademark violations in civil court. But even that seems to be restricted to maybe two former producers. So, it would appear the latest control model is to just give pirates safe passage for a monthly fee.

That would really piss me off if I were a KJ who paid for all my content. That's why, in my opinion, any NEW production should be done in a manner that protects not only the producer, but also the purchaser/user of the new stuff. I have given an example of one way that could happen, that's all.

With advanced compression tech, 6 terabytes fit quite comfortably. (300,000 songs)

Again, there is nothing about this that would work. There is no such thing as 221Hz, 1783Hz, 2998Hz, 6376Hz, 13,542Hz in a digital audio file and by the time there is a 221Hz, 1783Hz, 2998Hz, 6376Hz, 13,542Hz (after the DAC) it's too late. There is no unobtrusive level in a digital file. Digital... 1's and 0's read as hex words, possibly complicated by encryption. Anything you embed in the file can be sniffed out. Putting the same thing in a digital file over and over makes it that much easier to sniff.

Not at all. Though I feel I am way more flexible as a Cheerleader than the anti-Sound Choice contingent are. I am not hypnotized by Sound Choice into always agreeing with them whereas the anti-Sound Choice folks are anti-Sound Choice is practically every aspect regardless of the facts or intent.

Also, "my truth" is based more on facts than speculation and what if's.

All of the speculation around GEM's serves only to create a hostile environment and fear about using the product. When the current reality of it is myself and the other GEM holders have them, use them and have not been asked for more money or anything at all that I am aware of.

The anti-Sound Choice folks will swear up and down that the sky will fall and anyone with a GEM will meet certain doom on of the 9 levels of Hell.



And when my experience debunks speculation, but the speculation continues, who's truth is more real?



I beg to differ.

Just weeks after I came to this forums I posted this - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=22776&hilit=+hostile

This is a hostile forum - but usually only when it comes to Sound Choice related posts. In the ensuing 3 years it hasn't gotten any better. The evidence is 3 + years of Kurt and Sound Choice bashing.



So the Sound Choice catalog - arguably one of the most popular for 20+ years - one commands the highest aftermarket price of ANY karaoke manufacturer - is being excluded as a positive contribution to the karaoke community?

I am not going to argue that Sound Choice is above reproach, but I don't think they deserve all the hate they are getting.

It is a natural reaction to be embarrassed when you get caught with your pants down. I am of the opinion that Sound Choice actions in suing karaoke hosts caught a bunch of people off guard. Also in my opinion, the people caught off guard were the very ones that were being targeted by Sound Choice. They reacted by bashing Sound Choice and have successfully painted a company who created some of the most popular karaoke music on the market as an evil entity.

PEP has an uphill battle ahead of them. They will suffer the same hate that Sound Choice has. I think the tipping point for them will be the production of new music. If they can get to that point, AND it is quality, relevant music, the tide will turn. Also, as the industry morphs and karaoke producers turn to different methods of distribution, people will view other companies in a different light as well.

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-Chris

Yeah, spread spectrum watermarking is a myth. Glad you cleared that up for us all.

Watermarking isn't a myth. Thinking it could be used as an encryption method is. Well it isn't really a myth.

Inexpensive audio analysis software is available today that makes watermarking both possible and irrelevant.

We can visit a show and record the songs being played, and by comparing them to a known reference source (our confirmed original track), we can determine whether it was our track played, or someone else's. The track is its own watermark.

We could digitally watermark our tracks with signals that would make that process somewhat easier, maybe even more conclusive (though probably not), and capable of identifying a particular piracy source, but it would still require us to visit shows to acquire the signals, and it wouldn't prevent those tracks from being played freely whenever we weren't there to hear them.

I suppose it's something to consider when we are releasing new tracks.

You sell a disk or conventional download folks are going to share/pirate as always, period.

You encrypt new production and sell or provide the registered buyer with a license key (dongle) so that the key must be present to play the new track you will greatly reduce piracy. Your site could also require the key to download. My whole point is the fact that much more control on the front side will lead to less sharing/piracy on the backside. Especially if the key holder knows it can be traced back directly to them. Fear rules everything! Every legit KJ should welcome this as it will ultimately reduce competition from pirates. (Of course I think 98.9% of all KJ's are 'pirates' to one degree of another, so maybe this would be too much of a hurdle, and you wouldn't sell any new stuff with this much control) YMMV

I certainly agree that your track is your watermark and I think it would be overkill in SC's case if it were not for the different media options. Watermarking the GEM would have been a great idea..

I am not disagreeing with you to be difficult. I am disagreeing because of the history at attempts to protect and the costs associated with it. It would be awesome if there was a way to protect but there isn't. SC tried several options and failed on every attempt. And I am not saying their attempts were not good ones because they were!

There are a percentage of people who will go to whatever means they can to steal music. You will not stop them and you will never get their money. Then there is a larger group that finds a value added in a low cost easy solution to purchase. Itunes was genius! Their DRM, not so much..

That is the thing. All it takes is one breach, and then the content goes on the torrents and it all goes up in smoke.

A lot of DRM has sounded good in concept. In practice, it hasn't been worth diddly-squat.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I agree guys, criminals will always find some way to be criminals.

All you can really hope for is to help keep honest folks honest.

This is PURE speculation on my part, but if PEP/soundchoice gets back into production of karaoke tracks, I have a strong suspicion that they will only be selling them to People who are certified, are part of the HELP program or have a GEM license.

It is my guess that the majority of people in these groups are unlikely to pirate/distribute new tracks, ESPECIALLY if there was a way to trace it back to the original owner.

If there was some way to model what the cloud does where you have to connect to the internet every single month to verify that your license is valid and keep using the files that you have downloaded, I think this would deter rampant piracy *notice i said deter, not prevent*

Since the key is half with the user and half on a private, protected site it would be difficult *notice i said difficult not impossible* to obtain both parts which would be needed to completely decode a file.


-James

It appears that the GEM has accomplished this sort of thing, so far.

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-- Mark