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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:17 am 
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I am sure much of what James posted is how it would be handled with regard to certified hosts and bars. Whether they do more is pure (valued) speculation. I say SC should go for it. People want their stuff. I question if it is enough people to merit the costs and the costs have been much higher of late. Maybe they should poll their certified people to see how much they would pay per track. They would need to make money at it so people should be willing to pay more per track if that is what it takes.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:22 pm 
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Insane KJ wrote:
Robin Dean wrote:
Especially if the key holder knows it can be traced back directly to them. Fear rules everything! lol


It appears that the GEM has accomplished this sort of thing, so far.

so far it has. i don;t remember if it was the GEM or the KJMP where the name of the purchaser was added to the graphics of the file. i think it was the KJMP and that would be a way to do the same for downloads IF they get back into production.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
i think it was the KJMP and that would be a way to do the same for downloads IF they get back into production.

KJMP was such a nice idea. I was even considering going that route.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:41 pm 
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my concern was paying for the drive then the credits not being available to buy (like what actually happened) or the songs being pulled (like what actually happened) after paying a few hundred for the drive. now....put that technology of stamping the graphics with the name on downloads and now you got something. marking that would have to be individually removed on a track available instantly for $2.00 and everyone wins.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:59 pm 
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Songs would be taken away from the drive, itself, not from what you already bought, would they??

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:36 pm 
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No they couldn't have taken songs from the drive - as a matter of fact they even highly recommended cloning the drive for back ups and storing the unlocked songs on a separate drive with backups as well since if the song was lost or damaged, you would either have to repurchase or do without. All moot point now since it's gone.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:51 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
No they couldn't have taken songs from the drive - as a matter of fact they even highly recommended cloning the drive for back ups and storing the unlocked songs on a separate drive with backups as well since if the song was lost or damaged, you would either have to repurchase or do without. All moot point now since it's gone.


Such a shame. Was a nice idea. It would be like having Tricerasoft in a portable version.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:13 pm 
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I still think the future of karaoke will be finding a way to monetize it without relying on income from selling tracks. You can go 'round and 'round on the technical issues of anti-piracy and copy protection, but the monetization problems are ultimately going to be more tractable.


Last edited by CafeBar on Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:22 pm 
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..........


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:01 pm 
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jclaydon wrote:
This is PURE speculation on my part, but if PEP/soundchoice gets back into production of karaoke tracks, I have a strong suspicion that they will only be selling them to People who are certified, are part of the HELP program or have a GEM license.

It is my guess that the majority of people in these groups are unlikely to pirate/distribute new tracks, ESPECIALLY if there was a way to trace it back to the original owner.
...
I believe that something was posted by Mr. Harrington (about 1 year ago) to what you just said. That was one of the reasons I pitched a fit about not being able to get certified (because I am an ODB KJ who is 1:0 in the ratio). Thanks to Chris Avis, I was finally able to get listed as being Certified (and at no fee too).


MrBoo wrote:
... People want their stuff. I question if it is enough people to merit the costs and the costs have been much higher of late. Maybe they should poll their certified people to see how much they would pay per track. They would need to make money at it so people should be willing to pay more per track if that is what it takes.
I believe Mr. Harrington posted (about 1 year ago), that SC was going to start new production soon, and someone here (in this Forum) posted a Survey regarding this.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:16 pm 
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I really like Zoom's approach.
100 mp+gs on a dvd for $30.

Out of those 100 songs usually 50-60 are songs people will sing all the time and you actually OWN the tracks period and the dvds are organized so as to help avoid duplicates.

An honest person who doesn't have much cash can gradually build a rather nice starter library out of those.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:28 pm 
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BigJer wrote:
I really like Zoom's approach.
100 mp+gs on a dvd for $30.

Out of those 100 songs usually 50-60 are songs people will sing all the time and you actually OWN the tracks period and the dvds are organized so as to help avoid duplicates.

An honest person who doesn't have much cash can gradually build a rather nice starter library out of those.

And Zoom isn't worried about us using our computers!! And they aren't trying to charge MORE after the sale!! My favorite thing is that you can suggest new songs for them to make, through facebook, and sometimes you actually get your requests!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:10 am 
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and the sound of zoom is much better then sc


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:16 am 
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MIKE D wrote:
and the sound of zoom is much better then sc


Yes it is.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:27 am 
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You have to remember the UK manufacturers operate under a completely different set of laws and regulations.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:39 am 
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timberlea wrote:
You have to remember the UK manufacturers operate under a completely different set of laws and regulations.


And costs..


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:41 am 
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timberlea wrote:
You have to remember the UK manufacturers operate under a completely different set of laws and regulations.

Yes, much SMARTER and much simpler rules and regs. Nothing will ever change here as long as we have Conservatives in both houses. They don't like to change a damn thing, unless it is good for the rich.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:47 am 
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Actually conservatives (Republicans) are into less regulations than liberals (Democrats).

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:04 am 
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timberlea wrote:
Actually conservatives (Republicans) are into less regulations than liberals (Democrats).


Exactly. Remove all regulations and let big business run wild. They are honest people after all. They wont screw anybody. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:31 pm 
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HarringtonLaw wrote:
Elementary Penguin wrote:
If one business entity can impose post-sale, post-transaction fees they simply invent on another business entity, that establishes a precedent that really should work both ways, should it not?


The fundamental problem with your plan is this:

SC has never imposed any "post-sale, post-transaction fees" on anyone.

SC sold you a product, a compact disc. If you use that product as it's intended, you never owe SC another dime.

All of the various programs we offer--certification, HELP licenses, Safe Harbor, etc.--have come about because KJs want to do something different from what was originally agreed with that disc.

For many years, we said no.

Finally, when it became clear that merely saying no wasn't going to work, we offered you options. These options exist and are necessary because the KJs want to do something new. Those options carry rules. Those rules are designed to protect our brand and to give us a ready way to identify and avoid suing operators who follow the rules.

We are not going to stop suing operators who don't follow the rules.

We would be perfectly OK with KJs using their original discs exclusively. That's the original deal. If you want to go back to the original deal, where you use discs exclusively, you are welcome to it.

Some of you are OK with that, and we respect it.

Others of you recognize that the rules serve a purpose, and you're OK with getting certified and paying a tiny fee that covers a portion of our costs. After all, we don't benefit from your media-shifting. You do.

And then we have those who resent that there are rules. You're entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts. The simple fact is that we aren't the ones who wanted the change. We are simply imposing conditions on our agreement to the change. If you don't like those conditions, use your discs, or don't use the brand at all. Either way, we're totally OK with that.


But there IS a fee imposed, or possibly something that resembles extortion (in my opinion): PRLLC & SC are the ONLY companies that have chosen to discriminate against KJ's (vs. DJ's who also use DMA, '98 & fair use, as described in IP Justice' foray into the legality of copying CDG's, which is mirrored on ORKA's (Oregon Karaoke Association) legal page. Nobody seems to feel it's necessary to hold their hand. The sad fact of the matter is that as KJ's we are often our own Roadie, Our own sound engineers, our own transportation specialists, our own I.T. guy, our own print/graphic designers, etc. any ONE of which would pay the same or more than what we can ask a small business to pay out, especially since they have to pay the P.R.O.'s on top of it. I have many emails between myself and various manu's declaring 1) their legitimacy & 2) permission to use whatever format I choose within the legalities mentioned in the a fore-mentioned IP Justice study AND that includes a backup copy, for maintenance or in case a drive/computer failure occurs. But the "2 litigious ones" seem to be paranoid/narcissistic in thinking every KJ has to be a scoundrel, because who, in their right mind would charge so little, for so much?! It's a good kind of crazy... and excludes greed... Hard for big money-makers to understand.


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