Karaoke Forums

These changes do not apply retro, but what new Eagles songs have you seen recently... They will not cut off existing agreements and licenses, they are just not able to obtain new ones for those songs in that territory (a minor inconvenience if they had to obtain a new license for that song). And remember money makes the world go round, negotiations are always open.

Let's remember our karaoke history here too Danny..

Eagles got miffed because SC didn't pay them, and didn't get their permission. We have no way (as the end user) of knowing if there was new licensing agreements. There is no such thing as an online database that shows how each song has been licensed for karaoke (although.. this might be a great idea to squash this argument, if Zoom, Sunfly, etc DID create a db with that info (minus the actual dollars paid, just who was involved in it's creation and licensing)

Something similiar to IMDB except for researching the licensing on a particular karaoke track. (IMDB never shows how much folks got paid, just who did the work on it)

I think they should create it. Just to squash this BS.

And let's see if the KIAA companies can do the same (doubtful)

That is just what many have been asking for for quite some time. Because, with all due respect, we have been in the position of being told how things are by the people who are doing the selling and sometimes it has conflicted or changed. Then we get told we could be liable for doing the wrong thing. Yet really, we don't have the access to know for sure what the right thing is. Especially with major distributors selling brands that supposedly aren't licensed (again discs and not downloads but you get the picture).

I don't buy from Craigslist yet we evidently have some "bad" discs in our library because so many major distributors sell these brands and I thought they must be okay (Plus, as Moonrider has often pointed out, they are regularly praised and promoted on the forums). And all arguments aside about whether or not I would really get into trouble because of "good faith," if I knew for sure they weren't actually licensed, then I would have had the info to make a better decision. As it is, we could be held responsible without having the info to truly be responsible. And there are so many hosts out there who aren't on forums and don't have a clue. It really is a mess.

I'm going to move this idea to separate thread (and expand on it a bit). I think it's worth it's own thread.

That would be good as I have already changed my mind. I don't want to have to research every friggin' karaoke song that I buy. I just want it to be illegal to sell the bad stuff and have it enforced. Maybe have a central something or other that gives a stamp of approval for me plus spells out the exact allowable use. So let the ideas flow.....

Moved:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21703

With all due respect, where did you get these licenses? Because if you got them from the mechanical rights society in the UK *i noticed u had the logo on your site* then it doesn't mean squat in the US and possibly Canada.


I have talked to several people from SOCAN, DJ associations, and an IP lawer and they all said that from a legal perspective there is currently no way to legally shift the content to a computer. The only thing different my lawer said in terms of using downloaded karaoke that is authorized by the manufacturer is that its a grey area at best. In his opinion, the publisher would not bother to come after me because they wouldn't be able to prove damages. But that still doesn't mean that it isn't technically illegal.

yes the UK manufacturers may own the master rights in the country where they were produced, but does that mean they own the master rights in other counties. After all, all rights reserved, means that any rights not granted by law must be negotiated. Last time I checked that included the lyrics. All the US manufacturers say no. If fact it seems to be about the only thing they agree on of late.

That doesn't mean I couldn't be wrong, I just fail to see how so many people, who are intimately involved in the music industry could be so mis-informed.

You answered your own questions.

i need the 'like' button for this

I haven't answered anything. Just because its legal for you to sell doesn't automatically mean that its legal for me to use in a certain manner. Show me the section in Canadian law that says the manufactures have master rights for the whole work.

And one more thing, if they do own the master rights exactly as you describe, then why is a produb liscence still required to do digital karaoke in the UK?

Also you still haven't answered where u got your licenses from. I'm not doubting your word, i would really like to know please. Because if you did actually get them in Canada it would mean that people at SOCAN are ignorant of the own laws that they are supposed to be enforcing. If you got them in the UK that means the end user assumes responsibility because they are the ones that downloaded and 'imported' the track *according to my lawyer*

Personally i don't really care all that much. I know for a fact that your are paying licensing for zoom, sunfly and SBI because I asked them myself, and they all told me the exact same thing. I do have one question about a track that I bought from your site, but i think it would be best asked in private so i will send you a separate message. I did contact your customer support and never got an answer back.

your paying the fees to sell their karaoke, I'm paying to use it. That's good enough for me. Like i said, I seriously doubt anyone will come after me

Direct licensing. I didn't think this was possible *at least for karaoke* but thank you so much for pointing that out.. It makes more sense to me now.. Its weird that I missed this post when I was first reading everything.

Kind of makes my other posts redundant. Mea Culpa

And to avoid more redundant posts.....

And might I also note, from the text within the link:
".....for use in the territory of Canada only "

Nothing to do with or for use in a U.S. based karaoke show.

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" Disc based and loving it..."

That's right since both Tricersoft and AVLA are Canadian based, which is the reason I posted.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

No wonder people either become pirates or are petrified into runing shows only with physical disks. Fact is you can download and NOT be a pirate, so long as you buy from a licensed source.

Of course SC wants you to pay over $3 a song, and will use fear to make you do it. Other companies can sell downloads, if they could not Zoom, Sunfly etc would have been sued long ago by the music industry. The only reason SC does not sell downloads is greed, because they know they can force an established pro KJ to buy 6 duplicate songs for a single new song the KJ wants to add to their book.

If Zoom, Tricerasoft et al are now going direct to publishers for their licensing, does that mean that the Eagles changed their minds about karaoke and are giving them direct licenses? Or how are all of those Eagles songs available for download on these sites being licensed?

Those companies can sell them because they are out of U.S. jurisdiction. The KJ in the UK can USE them in there shows because it's legal IN THE UK, and under blanket license.

These downloads are not licensed for use in U.S. based karaoke shows.

Before the next person posts to say the above is incorrect, I will re-post here what I did on another thread:


"If using downloaded karaoke tracks is legal for a U.S. based show, would some please post a link to the blanket license that would be required? I mean one that someone (Mfr, KJ, or anyone?) paid for recording rights (for recording), fixing rights ( to fix onto whatever media is being used), video sync rights, commercial rights (to sell), digital rights ( to sell digitally), format shifting rights, etc., etc., etc......

I mean, all it would take is a link to that license to end any question about it, right? Anyone?"

I'm guessing.....no.

Tricerasoft is correct in that it's technically possible for someone to hunt down the music OWNERS of each and every one of the thousands of separate tracks in their collection, and possibly negotiate a fee for each and every separate track, assuming one could afford to pay those thousands of separate fees for downloads. However, some of those owners are REAL hard to track down, it could take quite a long time, and it may not be financially feasable for most KJs.

Using factory original discs, one keeps the responsibility for licensing on the mfrs. shoulders.

On the other hand, I agree with you in regard to SC's greed factor.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

They are not hard to find at all - if you actually knew how to do you wouldn't be asking. And NO I'm not sharing how to do it, it is public information available and infact an easy process - pay me for consulting and licensing services and I will share the process and make sure you have a good chunk of money for advances. If you are a KJ, it's not for you to know nor will you ever need to know so no one will bother to explain it to you unless they know you are going to invest. Ask any of the other services doing it, they may want to share with you. But most don't care to share with you so push them to answer your questions a little. There are many more services offering the exact same services with less licensing, see what they tell you.

What? So bottom line: Are the tracks that are available to download at Tricerasoft legal to use in the US for commercial gain. If the artist or publisher of that track have issue if they walked into my show and saw their song being sung and displayed. Example "Stay" by Sugarland since it has been pulled by the the US manus over a rights dispute?

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