Karaoke Forums

I can justify my rates by providing a great show.

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Birdofsong

I was waiting for that reply!!

There was a day when providing a great show was the 'selling' point. And (you'll have to take my word for it), I do provide a great show. But that is no longer enough. In this economy, bar owners are trying to cut costs and they get sucked into hiring other kj's for less money than I can charge. I have a better system etc.. .but I lose out when it comes to library because I don't download and I BUY my karaoke music. My library is nothing to sneeze about, but I can't compete with KJ's that have hardly any overhead. We have one gig that we've had for 20 years... they don't shop around because of the crowd we draw.. a 'bad' kj wouldn't be able to do what I do at that gig! (sales of $3,000 to $4500 on Thursday night...but yea, it's gone down a little in the past year..I stopped checking) I get to work at 8pm (show starts at 9), I set up the computer, tweak the sound, set out books etc. By 8:30 I have at least 5 singers, by 9 there are at least 10, by 9:30 the number has gone to 20+, I stay at 24-28 or so until the end. At 11pm, the younger crowd arrives.. this is when I usually take a short dance break (hophop/club). My filler music is a mix between classic rock and hiphop. The dance break is only about 4-5 songs since the younger crowd wants to sing also. Once karaoke is over, I play dance until I have to kick them out. I've been more or less packing the place for the past 13 years (before that the owner worked it). But some other bars want lower cost rather than high quality... they get what they pay for! I'm gonna try to change that.. since most venues have no idea that they are in trouble also if their KJ isn't legal.

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

By the way... Harrington, I'm sorry if I jumped your topic. It got out of hand, which I'm finding happens fairly often

I do want to tell you that I appreciate your input on all this. I, for one, felt more comfortable calling SC, & CB about an audit.

I came here looking for some tools in getting back my share of the market. I know of at least 3 KJ's in my area that aren't legal. One even posted on his facebook that he was just gonna do what he's 'doin until they kick him' out. I don't think he realizes what he might be in for. Sad really... but I can't worry about him. I've got to take care of myself now.

Anyway, thanks again.

Gone from this topic now

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

Lisah - I agree 100%.

I have been talking to one venue that has never had karaoke before. They don't know a good host from a bad one. They don't know a good show from a bad one either. They can't compare me to anyone else because they have never had a show. So the justification of my rates has to come from elsewhere.

When I first asked them about possibly doing a karaoke show, almost immediately they asked "how much per night". When I told them my intro rate, they literally laughed at me. They told me that two other hosts had been in with offers of less than half of what I was asking. I asked them to do the industry a favor and just ask the other hosts to prove they had paid for all of their music for their show.

I want to be perfectly clear here -

I did NOT say "Check to see if the other guys are certified"
I did NOT say "You could get sued if you hire an illegal host"
I did NOT even mention the word pirate or piracy

They have told me they are interested in doing karaoke, but there are already several shows near them and they are concerned about there being enough of a draw to justify the cost. They are absolutley concerned with their bottom line. At the low prices the other guys offered (and I have no clue who the other guys are or if they are legitimate), I am almost shut out. I say almost because I am keeping them engaged with my -

Investment in music
Investment in sound and lights
Reference from my existing show
References from some of my regulars
and of course....... my certification.

They told me one of the hosts stopped returning their calls after asking about their music. The other is apparently "organizing his collection".

I am meeting with them again this weekend. They are still talking to me and it has ZERO to do with me "providing a great show".

-Chris

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-Chris

Chris,
Yup, there ya have it.. the certificates CAN be what gets you that gig. And the references of course
Our area is fairly small, and I have a great reputation. Most of the time I get the response, 'I've heard of you! How much?'. I tell them a range of what I make at other shows and the lowest I'll accept. They frequently say, "you're expensive". To which, I reply... I'm worth it!
I really think that a lot of venues believe that karaoke won't increase their business substantially.. so they hire the cheapest and find that they were right... no substantial increase (if any). I am going to let some of the venues know that legalities can hurt them. They are paying attention to their bottom line and not considering that there even ARE illegal kj's out there OR that they could get into trouble hiring one.

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

All I can say is that if you folks actually believe that, then you must believe that anyone with simialar items that can be bought for money( music and equipment) is as good as you are.

If that's the case, then you believe that there is no reason why anyone should hire you instead another KJ who is similarly equipped.

Of course, this would mean that you have no selling point, which is what probably makes it tougher for you to get new venues.

Sorry to hear it.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Joe -

Two KJ's walk into a bar, they have identical equipment, songs, hardware, everything is identical. EXCEPT KJ1 will do a show for $50 and KJ2 will do a show for $150.

Who do you hire?

-Chris

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-Chris

Shoot, I said I was gone from this topic! (Harringtons topic)

Joe, You're not understanding me... most venues don't know squat about karaoke. They have heard of me and then they are interested... but they hire someone else who charges substantially less than I do. It's like they buy store brand bread and think it's fine.. unless I can get them to taste Wonder bread, they get what they paid for .. AND THAT gives karaoke a bad name. They have no idea that the equipment is smaller and/or cheaper. They have no idea that the KJ is using illegal tracks. Most of what they pay attention to is price. No matter how great I do my job.. a KJ that will work for $50 to $100 per night OR for just a bar tab is hard to compete with.. I can't compete with that price. It has come down to illegal vs. legal. Before all this (downloading, buying illegal hard drives), I had to turn jobs away.

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

I wouldn't hire either one, since neither was smart enough to duck..... *groan*

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

no in Joes case, with all his years and numerous venues with great success to show, he is right.
but in the case of someone like me, i have 1 bar, 4 nights, and great nights.
but to another bar owner, that only shows that i have a job at a good bar.
my certs, arent worth the paper they are printed on for getting shows, because all they see is that a bar that would be full anyway (as far as they can tell) pays me $150.00 a night. their bar is not that full so the $50.00 guy is a better otion for them.
it does work the way Joe says, but only for the long tooth vets here.
the newer ones lie me without the long track record of building show after show still get pushed to the wayside for the lower dollar amount.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

The topic reminds me of a song.....Hey Har-ring-ton....what's your game now, can anybody play.....anyone remember that one.
To me, I was never kjing to bring people into the bar, but rather to entertain the people that the bar itself brought in. I would also say, that in almost every case, the owner was actually fond of karaoke, and didn't mind paying a decent wage, for someone that ran a good show.....he/she new what a good show was.
On the other hand, I've had owners approach me, and they were trying to get people to come to there place. They weren't making much money, and they weren't willing to risk very much money on any entertainment. Karaoke was just another thing they didn't really care about, or know about. They were just trying to make money, with the smallest investment possible. it took me a while to catch on.. .......it's been a few years since I've done a gig.

Me. Why? I have a record of shows running for years, I have a strong following, and I have never failed to make a venue more money.

I have been competing against "play for beer" and undercutting KJs for over 2 decades. I have also been competing against much larger libraries ( I OWN about 25K tracks, but carry only about 15K to bar venues, and 19K to private parties). I am still doing quite well, thank you.

The key? Me. My personality, my ability to make people feel comfortable and confident, my accessibility ( I don't hide in a booth), my willingness to help out with non-KJ problems, my ability to create a "karaoke family" sort of atmosphere ( to the point where singers actually call in if they are sick or can't make it for other reasons) and many other things including technical skills. There isn't another me.

In short, I win out over the undercutters because I took the time to learn what the singers like, and what they hate before I ever went into the business. I am the 2nd highest paid host in the area- though I make a higher profit ( more money) than number 1 due to back end economics.

My shows, depending on venue size, day of the week, and location, run from $180-$250

There are plenty of $75 KJs about, but think about it. Does a bar owner really want to risk $2500 or more just to save $100-$150? Would you?

No matter what business one enters, one must understand it to be successful.

Example: One pays $70 for a pair of designer jeans, when a $15 dollar pair that probably looks as good on is available at K-mart, and they may well have been made exactly the same way at the same factory- WHY?? Marketing...

That's the clothing business. Marketing is equally as important in the Karaoke Hosting business, but in this case you have to be able to back it up.

At the risk of repetition, if you think anyone with similar equipment and library is as good as you, and believe that, then you have no selling point- you don't excel, you are just another alternative with nothing more to offer. Do you really think that attitude will help you in business?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

How do you know the pirate (yes not mentioned, just assuming) doesn't have the same record for running shows & a following? I know some pirate shows around here that have decent followings??

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

A pirate with a decent following is unlikely to be undercutting rates (pirates like money too, that's the main reason they don't pay for their music). There are plenty of pirates who can command top dollar because they put on a great show. The value of a show is not in the music that is easily legally aquired by anyone these days, it is in the quality of the show and the quality of the relationships that a host can develop with his/her patrons.

It is very easy and cheap for a profitable pirate to become legal and continue to remain in business and remain profitable.

It happens with every lawsuit settlement.
It also happens with those who buy up as soon as the lawsuits come to town (before they are named) and then suddenly become the most outspoken anti-pirate.

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KNOW THYSELF

I wasn't talking about someone with similar equipment, library or anything else... I do have selling points... my excellent reputation, experience and talent speak for themselves. Why are you so down on getting rid of the illegal competition?????
The area where I live is hurting financially.. the venues are looking at the $ not the talent.

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

Earthling... that is not the case here. The illegal ones don't necessarily put on great shows, one I know just likes to sing so he bought a small system and a hard drive and he got a gig that pays for his bar tab + $50. Another I know actually does do a decent job... for as long as it lasts... frequently he gets ticked off by something and walks out (yes, a year ago we got a call after he did that .. and we're still working that one)

I would have liked to never have gotten involved in the piracy thing... it's a pain and money I don't need to spend. But I'm going to do what ever I think will help to even the playing field again. I don't mind competing for business.. but I can't compete with $50!



Why are there so many that have a problem with someone who doesn't want illegal kj's competing in the market (in my case, a fairly small market)

Whatever, I don't need to argue about it here and be insulted by people that don't know me or my business.

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

I am not aware of anyone here that is against eliminating illegal hosts. But if the venues are looking at dollars and not talent then the hosts at those venues are not competition, because those venues are not your prospects.

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KNOW THYSELF

Aren't very many prospects here.. sad to say.

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

If I have stated an idea or opinion here that you found insulting, that was not my intention.

I understand your frustration with the changing market, and I applaud you for doing your best to compete.

I believe there are many factors driving the tough times and that while piracy is a part of the equation, it's the part that is least in your control. If your desire is to eliminate the pirate KJs from your marketplace, you are virtually on your own. The goal of the manufacturers on the pirate crusade is not to eliminate them from existence, but to make them pay for their music and keep them in business as your legitimate competition (the manufacturers get nothing with any other outcome).

The fact of the matter is, it is cheaper to get into this business or remain in this business than ever before. That will not change even if all pirates were banished tomorrow. A new KJ could get enough music to start a $50 show for as little as four hundred dollars with the purchase of a chartbuster hard drive that carries their entire library, and unlock songs for 1.50 each as needed all the while being completely legal. Since most singers sing the same songs night after night, it wouldn't take but a few shows before very few songs needed to be purchased in a given show.

To compete in the marketplace regardless of industry, I strive to have a better product because I know it will be a very long wait before I have the only product.

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KNOW THYSELF

Agreed, I am willing to bet my left one ( yeah I dont need it anymore My ex got most of everything I ever worked for) there are some ( not all) cheerleaders here that Pirated and Now may be legal and paid out now are the Voice of SC and all the other Audit fans.

I read someones post that hit me real good. If a Guy has 1000+ SC disks and Literally owning twice the sc Music as a Gem user Why on earth after an audit is passed disks marked would you need to report to SC any New Music to SC over 2%?. Made me laugh. Wasnt sure if it meant ANY manufacturer or just SC