Karaoke Forums

SC can't go after CB based on this. Wouldn't this be the answer?

It's like when the police don't give other policemen speeding tickets.

Our "FRIENDS" are allowed to break the law and WE look the other way.

SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT

Cue,

It's and unfair business practice because the songs that are not licensed are much cheaper to put out on the street than licensed ones. And that's unfair.

It's like Bar #1 selling beer for $2.00 when it costs them $1.00 to produce and Bar #2 selling beer for $1.75 when it costs them only 50 cents to make from the same ingredients, but the hops were harvested without the farmer's authorization (or payment).

Bar #2 is selling beer for 25% less than bar #1 and making 25% more profit at the same time.

That is unfair competition because bar #2 is doing something that shouldn't happen.

[quote="c. staley"Why isn't SC and Piracy Recovery going after THESE pirates? This is tantamount to selling a hard drive of unlicensed music... which technically could be called unfair business practices and they are loaded with trademarks which belong to PR..

Where are the "pirate police" now?[/quote]

How do you know they aren't? Not everything we do is announced. In fact, very little of what we do is announced to the public--it is merely discovered by people who watch for it, and they announce it.

Translation: "We aren't doing anything and it 's none of your business."

What, pray tell, would be the reasoning for keeping something like this secret?

You would think the karaoke police would be publicizing this to further the "cause of the industry" and how much THEY are doing for YOU.

I bet you complain when the police or FBI or other agencies conduct undercover operations and not tell anyone about it until it goes to court when a reporter may report it.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

Your translator's busted.



If for no other reason, then to make it harder for you to call them up and offer your assistance and tips.

I kid, of course. You'd never help out a pirate, right?



I know it's hard for you to do this honestly, but think back very carefully. We've been doing this three years. In that time, how many times have you seen a media release or official statement from SC about a new filing?

There might have been one or two, or there might have been an official comment here and there, but it's actually really rare for us to announce something we're doing.

And yet no one questions whether we're actually filing suits, right? (A quick trip down PACER Lane will show that we are.)

So, to use your logic, if we're going all these things but not really seeking any publicity for them, doesn't that really cut the legs out from under your argument that we're somehow trying to make sure everybody knows what we're doing "for them"?

And doesn't it also pretty much kill your theory that because we're not talking about it, we're not doing anything?

QED.

Now, to amplify what I said before: The appropriate personnel have been made aware of this situation. Steps are in motion, but it takes time to take action. (Chip, you might want to start making those phone calls now, because the window is closing.) Patience is a virtue.

And exactly, what "assistance and tips" would you be referring to? (again) Still fishing? You are persistent. If you're so positive, why don't YOU call them up and ASK THEM if anyone has offered assistance? Because it's just more fun for you to try to plant some kind of credibility-damaging insinuation here... right?


If you're asking if I know of anyone who has ever helped "an illegal host" and made a few bucks in the process, then you should talk to Chris Avis. And when you're done, you might also want to check with SC... They've "helped" more pirat--- eh hem... "illegal hosts" stay in business than anyone else I know. And they've made tens of thousands.



That's not the point. If you're "helping the industry" then there would be no reason not to publicize it. If you are "helping yourself" then I can see where you wouldn't want to make too many ripples because your image as an entity that abuses the legal system for monetary gain would not serve you well. Would it?

OR, by publicizing it, more and more "illegal hosts" would be dropping the brand, no trademarks displayed and there would be fewer to make money off of... i.e. your cover would be blown and there wouldn't be very many to sue. So don't run the pirates out of business until you've had a chance to use -- as Kurt Slep himself said -- "Enforcement as a sales tool." There's just no money it otherwise.

What you fail to tell your followers is that there is some other reason -- like a connection between SC and PR that goes deeper than just "courtside buddies."



No one questions that you are in fact, filing suits.... I just don't see where you are doing anything about the "other manufacturers" that are -- by your own definition -- flooding this karaoke market with "illegal downloads." And not only are you doing nothing about it, SC has partnered up with them. The digitrax libray is made up of MOSTLY companies that license from the U.K. and sell their products via download here.

Which makes me wonder why SC hasn't done the same. Especially since the gems are "technically" made there. Are you going to state that they shouldn't be selling here via download because the PRS loophole was closed? Then why are you partnering with companies that are obviously diluting your market into oblivion?

Simple: Money.

The only "steps in motion" is to see how fast they can sell off the remaining stock. You and I know that "awareness" does not translate into "action."

And I'm wondering why the "investors" at Chartbuster didn't take the discs as well to sell off themselves to recoup SOME of their investment? Then they'd be squarely in the sights of your "steps in motion?"



Windows never close, ask your client. Any company can "change their minds and their policy" at any time...

SC has taught everyone here that one by demonstration.

This is the problem with you omitting information from someone else's post: You do it in a manner to cover your tracks.. and that's about as dishonest as you can get:

The REAL QUOTE with the omission highlighted was:


And you keep relating their actions to criminal actions..... not civil. But the point is that if they are "helping the INDUSTRY" then running the pirates out -- as fast as possible -- for the benefit of "the industry" is what they should be doing.

But that doesn't happen here... They want to keep it secret so they can capitalize on the the suit FIRST... "helping the industry" is lovely cover story.. a lypop to placate you.

They want to do this slowly... so that they can maximize on the income generated by lawsuites rather than CD sales of new karaoke music they COULD be making. But let's face it, if it pays faster and better than actually making music then what's the incentive to work "more?"

It's not about the pirates, or the "legal KJ's" and it's certainly not about "the industry."

Back in the day, pressed disks were the only option..
I know, as I produced CD and DVD disks for the distribution channel..
In those days, (1990s) My cost for a 1000 run was $1.65 each, art work, in a jewel case and shrink wrapped..

Larger runs were cheaper per ea..

Today, a few hundred $$$ will buy a disk duplicartor, and will run day and night..

It's no wonder so many disk are available..

With all those thousands of disks being sold by former chartbuster people and now Digitrax salesman--they really better have a grand plan in mind because they are really losing the respect of all the legit people in the field.We sold and used their product for over 20 years.I woudnt touch anything they are offering now(unless it was 15 songs for 1.29) Thats all that company is worth these days. I like to refer to it as The Dark Cloud.I wonder if the investors know what they are pulling?

Chip, didn't you notice I did not quote you as there were no quotation marks around it. I changed it to show a point. That point being the police or law enforcement do not advertise or release information of undercover operations while the investigation is ongoing. In the vast majority of lawsuits where there is an investigation, the fact there has been an investigation is not released until discovery. Why should they announce to the world they are conducting any ongoing investigation.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

The "police" are not trying to "help the industry" and you know and I know, that if SC went after the sources first (with lots of announcements) and then the "users" (with lots of announcements), many of these activities would be stopped.

However, because they would be stopped, there would be far fewer court settlements they could collect any money from -- even though it just might increase legitimate purchases of their products and really "help the industry."

It just appears that lots of lawsuits are far cheaper (with the joinders) and provide a "return on investment" much faster than actually recording new music and trying to sell it.

i think the point Chip was getting at (forgive me if i am wrong Chip) is that everyone here must show proof of everything, except SC.
example, in the cheerleading camp it is understood that SC is doing the investigations it claims to be doing. take the florida case, 1 did an audit after being named and failed, the other did not submit to an audit and the only proof that he did anything wrong was Kurt saw the SC logo on a TV. add in the two i brought up before (because they are the only 2 i have first hand knowledge of) that were never investigated and it looks funny.
if i say SC is doing x,y,&z wrong, i would immediately be hit with requests to put up proof or shut up. saying confidential, private, or sensitive would be an admission of lying in the eyes of many on this forum. SC says hosts are doing x,y,&z wrong, we are expected to accept it as truth and not question. saying confidential, private, or sensitive would be protecting assets in the eyes of those same people on this forum.
a large double standard.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

So why should SC or any other business make a big announcement? So the perpetrators can hide what they are doing? Yeah, that's real smart.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

That depends.. advertising you are doing "investigations" would be very smart if your end game was to educate and get people to stop doing whatever it is you think they are doing wrong. Speed limits are "advertised" and I've seen cops stand by the side of the road holding a radar gun to show people they plan to enforce. Saw it the other day. Went by 15 minutes later and he was still there in the same spot. They place "this is your current speed" machines to advertise what their gun would say your speed was. And the "serious" offenders get tickets.

But it would not be smart if your end game was to attempt to gain profits from current customers by way of force and for a product they've already purchased in the same net as you say you are casting out for pirates.

So, yeah, it wouldn't be too smart..

They did for years with KIAA, etc, putting it in the jewel cases saying format shifting was not allowed and it has been discussed on this board and other to ad nauseum for years but people just decided to ignore it.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

They stated on KIAA (whatever that is) and in jewel cases they would institute some sort of audit plan and they were going to do "extensive investigations"? Because that is what I thought we were talking about. I've got drawers full of jewel cases and I don't recall that being in any of them and I don't know what? or where? KIAA is. Is knowing this a prerequisite for purchasing Sound Choice music? I also haven't and won't purchase anything associated with SC or CB since I got wind of their thumbscrew tactics. EVERY KJ who has actually invested in their music would have been solidly behind a concept of getting those who haven't made the investment off the streets. As it's now plainly clear their intent is to milk money in a limited market from anyone they can, I can't see how any KJ would be behind it.

I guess early on I could of understood it. I mean, it seems SC sorta made people choose sides and once on a side people tend to cheer for that team. But how can people continue to cheer when they find out the real game their team is playing isn't anything like they thought it would be? Or I guess maybe it is and I can't understand why.

No they didn't have KIAA (Karaoke Industry Alliance of America) back then, it was SPIN (Stop Piracy Internationally Now) - their were a couple more organizations formed tryingt to kill piracy and illegal copying - this was all around 1998 when it was really first tried to be dealt with and that was just with CD copies, computer wasnt' really an issue at that point, that came a few years later. But the many of the SC Spotlights had copy warnings, $1000 rewards to those with info on successful conviction of pirates, no copying even to hard drives. CB had the same kind of warnings in theirs.
So their stance has always been don't copy. They could never have put any kind of disclaimer that their would be future audits because they didn't know they were going to do them. They decided MUCH later down the road (what 3 years ago) that they would finally allow people to copy their stuff to computer WITH a proper audit - making in an 'authorized' copy instead of an illegal copy. And the unauthorized copies have always been stamped on every disc from day one. Investigations they have been looking for illegal copies for quite a while now.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

What would the perpetrators be hiding... the discs or the HDs??? I would think it would be kind of difficult to hide a HD loaded with illegal song tracks (meaning that one could not produce a corresponding disc to match up with the tracks on that HD) while using it to run a show at the same time.