Karaoke Forums

It is the industry that needs an apology from Kurt and Jim for starting the legal process nonsense in the first place. They would have never started any of this unless they thought they would make a buck out of all of this. You know that and I know that.

I don't think they need to apologize for wanting to be compensated for all the product that has been stolen over the years.
I don't think they need to apologize for wanting people to think twice about stealing their product in the future.
I don't think they need to apologize for being the ONLY karaoke company trying to effect change in the industry.

You may not like the way they are going about it and you are free to express your opinion about that. Just don't make claims you can't substantiate. At the very least acknowledge you are wrong. To date, you have shown that you believe you are never wrong.

-Chris

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-Chris

So my question is this; assuming that many areas(in my case Oregon) have already experienced more than two lawsuit sweeps and given that new Karaoke venues and pirates crop up daily, how long are investigations and new lawsuit sweeps going to go on in any given regional areas? Annually? Semi-annually? Constantly until every last one is covered? Or does everything just go back to the way it was with a free for all of piracy going forward???

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

It would take an ARMY of lawyers, and unlimited court time to prosecute every pirate, or force them to settle. You will NEVER get rid of them all. You would need wave upon wave of lawsuits, in rapid succession, criss crossing the country, back and forth, from north to south, from east to west, and back. It would have to be a continual assault. Every law firm in the country would have to be involved, and so would every court and judge. There would have to be unlimited money to pay for it all, too. Never happen.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

But that doesn't mean to leave them be either.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

No, but they need to stop going after everyone. They could do quite nicely with the obvious pirates.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

wouldn't it be easier to garner more support behind you if it appeared that any effort we made would make a difference? it appears the procedures are only failing and the only reason to believe they are succeeding is you saying "trust me". every thread with someone stating something is followed by a request for proof or it is not believable, why should this be any different?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

This same scenario plays out every single day in a variety of different ways -

People speed on the roadways (including me)
People shoplift from stores
People jump the turnstiles at the subway station
People pick pockets

There is absolutely no way to prevent and/or catch everyone of the people that do the above things.
But that doesn't mean someone should be prohibited from trying or that when someone does get caught they should be let go.

I think some people get so pissy about karaoke because they download movies, music, video games all day for free and get away with it because there are so many people doing it they et lost in the shuffle and overlooked. But there is scrutiny, awareness, and actual pursuit of pirates in the karaoke community so it pisses some people off that they might actually get caught.

We will never catch all the pirates. We will never get all of the karaoke music that is already out there off the Internet. But that doesn't mean the rights holders shouldn't be allowed to try.

-Chris

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-Chris

My thing is that if I am not a pirate, i should be entitled to be left alone and NOT scrutinized. Further, i should be entitled to convert what I purchased without any hoops and expense. And I think it is unreasonable for ONE company to be making a beef about conversion. I say one because I was never a collector of Chartbuster, so to me, they are irrelevant in my life.

You bring up things like shoplifting, fare jumping, and pick pocketing. The difference is that cops don't come to your house to see if you have any stolen merchandise. Cops don't pull you over to check your speedometer to see IF you were speeding. They catch you speeding and ticket you. Music companies, producers, writers, and publishers don't come to audit your music collection, whether used professionally or not, to see if you stole any of your music, and they won't sue you for converting ANY of your music to a hard drive. ONLY SC does that, in ALL of the music business. It's unreasonable, it's annoying, and it's uncalled for.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

The thing is, of all people, you're the one who arrived here on these forums and blatantly admitted to piracy (music first) and subsequently attempted to solicit advice on how to obtain your karaoke tracks illegally.

If you hadn't encountered the serious backlash that you did, and then realized that you were easy enough to find and/or investigated, you'd probably have gone ahead with your plan. The posts are there to read... you originally defended your position claiming hardship among other things.

You've made several statement's about your compliance with SC's policies.

How would YOU determine the veracity of your claims?

How would YOU determine whether or not someone possesses original mfr's media to back up their computer files?

SC's does allow shifting of their trademark when they can verify that you are in possession of original mfr's product.

"... if I am not a pirate,..." <----- that is awesome

That's a pretty big if and it might seem bigger if you ever had to experience any competition for your gigs.

Would you sit idly by if a guy with one of those HD's suddenly appeared in a venue near you?

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Never the same show twice!

WOW, a year and half later and you are STILL throwing that in my face. How nice. SC wants to see how I run my show let them come down and look at it. I won't pay for an audit. Sorry. I refuse to do that. I am doing nothing wrong, so I have no reason to pay. As for a guy with a loaded drive, it means nothing to me. Any song my singers want I get for them, right when they ask for it, unless I can't find it. 9 times out of 10, I can buy it on the fly, though, so while I do not have 100,000 songs, I have or can get what my customers want. Plus I run a good show. My people have a good time. But thanks for your usual assumptions.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I didn't assume anything.

I asked questions.

A year and a half later your actions are still relevant. It would seem that the number of people trying get into the business via theft, like you planned, has increased. The truth is what it is.

What if someone managed to get copies of all YOUR files and then went into competition with you with the same ability to update (or steal yours)...? I am not talking about the number of files, I am talking about theft and unfair competition. Just because it isn't happening to you, doesn't mean that it can't or won't in the future.

You also, apparently, haven't considered the effect it would have had on other karaoke entertainment businesses in your area if you had not done what you claim and gone ahead with your plan to acquire your karaoke tracks in the same way you claim to have acquired your music tracks.

I think it makes sense to remind people of where you stood and what you intended and what you admitted when you first got involved with these issues. I also think that is is doing a service to newer forum members to give them a little background on the person behind all the spew you post.

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Never the same show twice!

I'm sure he wouldn't think anything of it if someone happened to get acces to AZLL of the files HE personlly bought/paid for that they stole from his hard drive by chance (like this doesn't happen everyday with hosts hired by companies). It would just be a matter of - hey why are you hasseling the small business man with nothing to start with - I mean I personally paid for all these tracks, but if someone that can't afford them takes them from me & is now competeing with me, you shouldn't hassle them - they are just trying to make a go of it!!!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Wanting to be compensated for stolen merchandize is not wrong. What is wrong is holding a legal gun to every host's head and demanding compensation whether legal or illegal. Especially since the bulk of the theft has been committed by the home user abuser. In that situation the manus have written off huge losses, just like they will have to do eventually, when this legal process of theirs implodes. It is not wrong to want to have people think twice about stealing Chris. What is wrong is the company did nothing to make the product harder to obtain, that would have cut down the amount of theft. They are not the only karaoke manu trying to obtain compensation, you forgot about PR/CB. You don't even like the way they are going about handling this process. You see Chris I don't think I'm wrong, the purpose of this whole legal process is as you say compensation. To recover money for the injured party is the goal. It stands to reason that the money that is recovered would eventually go back to Kurt and SC, with of course Jim being rewarded for his services. Just because I don't know their bank book balances doesn't mean all of that isn't true. If they are not making money from all of this or at least they have the hope of making money, otherwise there is no reason to pursue any of this legal dance of theirs. We are on opposite sides on this. I don't feel that any person or company has the right to use whatever means they can to obtain what they think is justice. That SC would have been better off in the long run to accept the losses like most other companies still in business have. Then if they wanted to continue making product they should have figured out a way to do so, like other manus that are still in the business of making actual product.

This raises the question just how effective is this whole legal process approach? Even in the high profile manu active enclaves, the bold pirate still hoists his Jolly Roger up the old mast and continues his illegal activities. Could it be that the pirates realize something the rest of us don't? That the manus really don't want to be the police, yet they still want to be paid. The simple solution is to run the pirate operation until confronted, if and when that happens. When sued you just settle with the manu or go out of business, and set up shop down the road. I'm sure that is played out time and time again. The pirate is mobile with no particular ties to the community, and can find a friendly venue looking for cheap entertainment. In such a situation unless the manus can throw a net over the entire industry at once the pirate will follow the advice of Mao. When the enemy attacks you retreat, when the enemy stops you harass, when the enemy retreats you advance.

Sort of like some hosts get pissy when they realize that this legal process is a sham and a scam. There is no way in 100 years that all of the pirates at the current rate will be brought into compliance. The manus don't have 100 years to get it right. How much longer they will continue this legal process remains to be seen. If it were such a good idea I think the other manus would have jumped on it by now. So far only a former viable manu and a foreclosed on former brand have latched on to this legal approach. The have adopted it as a last hope to get back what they have lost. What they have lost is water under the bridge, and sooner or later they are going to have to face the reality of the situation. Of course that is the truth to me, everyone has their own truth, right Bazza?

P.S. Just like it pisses off some legal hosts Chris that even if they support the manus approach they will not benefit from the victory against the pirates. So what if the pirate is caught he will be made whole and legal by the manus for a nominal price, and be in direct competition with legal hosts. Hell the best thing that might happen to the pirate is to get caught, then he will no longer have to hide, and the best host will win, like in every other service business.

But it also doesn't mean that everyone should be accused of the same crime without bearing proper witness to it. From your examples above, take the one I highlighted in RED (about Pickpockets). A similar comparison could be this.... The SC Investigator sees someone running a show with a PC and reports back that the KJ was media shifting without permission. I'll use Smoothedge69 in this example. Smoothedge69 plays everything but SC from his PC, and plays SC in it's original disc format only, but the Investigator might not have a visible sight of his work area, and thus does not see when Smoothedge69 handles a SC disc. Now, the comparison could be that an Investigator just walked into a place and saw you put a wallet in your pocket, and therefore says that you must have stolen it.

And here is the citation of the post so the readership has reference to your claims about Smoothedge69.

viewtopic.php?t=4664#p58805

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-- Mark

Do you have any friends or does everyone you know hate you??

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE