Karaoke Forums

Two things, Joe...

First, there is not the barest whisper on that site that indicates, suggests, or even could be interpreted as hinting that SC is some kind of official organization. Every page says that this program is "from the makers of Sound Choice® karaoke tracks." It literally could not be made more clear.

Second, just as you can require that contractors you hire to work on your property have whatever certifications, bonding, insurance, licensing, or education you like, venues can require that their contractors submit to this program to protect themselves from liability. The existence of this program no more creates liability for SC than the existence of insurance creates liability for insurance carriers when you require an electrician to be insured. To suggest otherwise is deeply dishonest.

That only happens in their imaginations. In the real world, SC is pliable, accommodating, and willing to work with anyone who cooperates. As long as the underlying purpose gets taken care of--getting operators into compliance--there are many ways to get there.

With our legal system of checks and balances (you write me a check and I'll make it balanced) there is no guarantee of any logical or predictable outcome. I would say that I wouldn't be even slightly agreeable to signing the bottom line to this brief questionnaire, and I think everyone here knows I own all my music.

I signed up a long time ago but the only thing that gave me pause was the driver's license number and I just left that out. No one has come after me or refused me a registration number or threatened me in any way because of that.

On the other hand I don't actually see it as giving an advantage to anyone around here. So I am not sure why people see it as being so powerful in either a good or bad way. It is mainly a communications channel that would expedite me clearing up with SC that I had the discs. The venues out here would see it as one more layer of beauracracy and not want to bother with it. But I've told them if anyone contacts them to give them my name and registration and maybe I can get them off the hook quickly. I think it goes in one ear and out the other, though.

We only include the driver's license number in the questionnaire in order to have some reliable means of verifying whether the person who filled out the questionnaire is who that person says he/she is, if there is ever some question in the future about that.

If you don't want to give your driver's license number, just put "decline" in that field, and it will be ok.

Then give your Congressional Representative Scott Garrett a call. I am sure his Republican stance of smaller government will help out a lot!

http://garrett.house.gov/

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-- Mark

After reviewing the terms and conditions for hosts to respond to questions, we discovered that one important term had been left off, and that term is in the host's favor. The terms now indicate that the host is always free to revoke any consent given in connection with the registration. Of course, revoking consent would be reported to any associated venues.

I just gave you four instances and explained them.

Read the post again.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

1) I never said it did. Why bring it up?

2) Contractor certifications come from an agreed upon pro organization or public agency, not some leftover company pretending to be such.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

...And by adding that last caveat, you have helped yourself not at all.

I do agree on one issue. SC is certainly opening themselves up to a lot of liability. Just one job lost due to SC's actions is all it would take, providing that the KJ is properly educated.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

You speculated. But I won't pressure you for anything else because we already know the answer.

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-Chris

Um...



Words mean things.

I also point out that BMI and ASCAP are not "official organizations," either.



Or not. Underwriters Laboratories: Private company. Good Housekeeping: Private company. J.D. Power & Associates: Private company. All of these companies perform certifications. They aren't professional organizations or public agencies.

Of course, you miss the point, which is that venues can require their hosts to register if the venues want to. If your venues said, "Register or you're fired," you would register, or be fired, and there is nothing you could do about it. And if you sued SC over it, you'd be laughed out of court, because SC hasn't told your venue to fire you. It hasn't even suggested it. It has told your venue that it needs to make sure there's no piracy on its premises, and if it doesn't do so, and there is some, the venue's getting sued. If you don't want to cooperate with that, that's on you, not SC.

I know it bugs you that SC owns its intellectual property and takes steps to protect it. But your feelings about that fact are irrelevant; those feelings don't make SC's activities something they aren't. There has never been the slightest hint from SC that it is a public agency or professional organization or trying to be one, and, once again, for you to suggest otherwise is deeply dishonest. Unfortunately, I've come to expect that from you.

Joe, what's the big deal about driver's licences? You write a cheque and you have to show a DL in the vast majority of cases and the vender writes your DL number on the back of the cheque. What makes SC any different than any other vendor? Do they have access to the government data base at Motor Vehicles? This is just another blowing a small thing out of proportion.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

And rich too... Lawyers don't come cheap. After all, it will cost that KJ a small fortune to drag that case through court.

Stolen right out of the Nazi play book . . . We need you to spy on your friends, parents, teachers, and co-workers and if you do not agree to do it then you are obviously not a good citizen and there will be some unfortunate repercussions for you.

Wonder if SC has the rights to use the Nazi playbook.
Hey SC, You need to pay me $150 so I can audit whether you have the rights to the book.

It's nice to know that nearly a quarter-century on, Godwin's Law still holds up.

No one is being asked to spy on anyone. They are being asked to take responsibility for stopping piracy in their own premises.

Leopardlizard, I did a survey last year and you were the only one with any first hand knowledge of this program and it was from a host's perspective not a venue's. Here is the topic link:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=27590&hilit=safe+harbor&start=80

Here is the conclusion after 5 pages of discussion.

As the OP, I have concluded that there are very few Safe Harbor Venues, or the hosts that know of them have been sworn to secrecy, under penalty of law (kind of like the mattress tags). Leopard Lizard was the ONLY one that spoke up about the existence of a Safe Harbor . She had first hand knowledge because she signed up for it as a host.

It would seem very logical to make this list available for all to see, because we safe KJ's (be it certified, Gemified, disc based, technical infringers, etc.) want to see the industry continue. We should feel that those of us that "really do OWN our music" should have a better opportunity to get the best gigs. I know how much time and money it takes to acquire and organize a LARGE collection.

I do believe that educating the venues sounds like the correct approach, but I also believe that it actually works against karaoke as a whole. By getting the word out to venues that they risk being sued if they don't hire a legal/safe KJ, most venues will just say "no" to karaoke all together, even if the host is legal and/or plays zero SC/CB/PH music.

Others on here have stated that not playing SC/CB/PH will solve their headaches........venues are finding that not having karaoke will solve it for sure.

why exactly is the list of safe harbor venues a secret anyway?
kinda like keeping all the settlements hidden secret, how can it be used to SC's advantage if nobody can even see these things are happening or places exist? there is no proof of anything.

***scenario 1***
SC) "safe harbor is helping keep venues out of court"
BAR) "like who, are any of the bars around here in the program?"
SC)"absolutely"
BAR) "like who?"
SC)"i can't tell you, just trust me, it will keep you from getting sued"
and this is to help entice them how?

***scenario 2***
SC) "safe harbor is helping keep venues out of court"
BAR) "like who, are any of the bars around here in the program?"
SC)"absolutely"
BAR) "like who?"
SC)"well, Dave's Bar a block south of here, Long Wongs the next mile east, O'Connor's Pub around the corner...."

which of those scenarios would be more apt to get people to listen and look into it further?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Since this question seems to have been skipped over, I will ask it again...

Why won't you (SC) list the Venues who register on Safe Harbor? As already pointed out, it could be extremely helpful to not only the KJ (who is looking for work), but also the Venue (who is looking for (what Sound Choice considers to be) a legal KJ).

so there was a big meeting this past Thursday night with believe it or not 49 bar /club/restaurant owners and 4 of the major long time karaoke host in the tri state region about safe harbor it lasted about 4 hours
in a nut shell the out come is this
they are not going to support safeharbor
sound choice
here is what is going to take place over the next few weeks
any kj/dj using sound choice/chart busters or the cloud will have a chance to drop these labels if they don't the kj will be replaced
they are only going to hire kjs who do not have these label's in there system this is what has come from sound choice suing the bars in stead of just the kjs the bars have had enough of this crap
I new this was going to happen sooner or later
there are about 29 kjs in this area that have been gearing up for this over the past 3 years we are ready to fulfill the bars wishes way to go sound choice putting your kjs out of game o well life goes on
so the restaurant guys are going to be posting this in the bar forums and spreading the word on what they are doing
you can rag this post all you want I am not responding to any one