Karaoke Forums

I seriously hope your kidding with that remark.... I've been doing this since Laser Disc (Damn, I'm friggin' old). It's been the only thing I've done for 16+ years, nothing else... And I'm proud of that.

The landscape is changing though, and it's harder to make a living, I am truly hoping you are making a killing hosting karaoke, because those people, self included, are becoming fewer and far between.

TM

It ain't all roses ToastedMuffin..... even for Chris.

I have my obstacles to overcome, but pirates aren't a factor for me. There are pirates working for $50 + Bar tab within miles of almost every venue we work. I recently pushed every venue (10) up to the $175/night mark and I have a few others that pay even more.

I have worked my (@$%&#!) off to get where I am right now and I continue to work to improve and provide a great service.

So it actually is all roses for me.....I just have to sift through a few cow Chips now and then to enjoy them.

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-Chris

Wow... I truly feel sorry for you.... You've "recently" pushed up to $175? I've been getting that for the last 17 years....

(your market area sucks)

Our market area sucks BIG ones. Around my area one is lucky to get $150 on the higher scale anymore. On the flipside, cost of living isn't as high as in say Orange County where a 1000 sq ft house down there with no yard (to speak of) could run $600K or better but can find a 2400 sq ft house WITH an half to an acre yard up here would run around $250K.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

All true..

Houses are still overpriced in the LA OC areas..

Except - the pirates are not getting in ANY trouble - the bars that use them, & even bars that get confused with same are the ones that have to pay, when most of the time they are hiring a 3rd party as a sub-contractor. And no judgments have been made, because they having funding/agreements with their legal council to strrrrrrretch it out, with preliminary hearings & injunctions so that the bar runs out of $$ for defense & has to settle. (Being a very low amount of IP lawyers, in most areas, I wouldn't be surprised if they all had coffee & colluded & cackled with prosecuting attorneys about how they would all make out in this win-win loser!!). I don't know how it would affect YOUR business, but let me give you a little insight on how it has affected mine:
I seemed to pass the screening of not being a pirate, so my venue wasn't served a subpoena. But nearly every other bar in the area did.
1) A great Mexican Restaurant went out of business (I started there with the guy they bought the system from, & then for them & had quit when they developed the attitude that new music was too expensive (so I started my own show)) - unfortunately, from their humble beginnings they'd expanded to have 3 stores in surrounding cities & it appears they merely copied the original system 2 times, so they were most certainly in the wrong, if those allegations were true.
2) A different bar, who did a show with a guy that worked with me, in the past, had hired him. He had a conversation with me, just before his start up, in which he suggested he would be able to use downloaded songs, if he had an invoice with his name on it, that listed the discs purchased, from when he worked at the USO ordering, while in the Army... I chuckled & asked, but did it come out of your account? & do you have the discs in your possession? No was the answer, so I suggested that his logic was flawed!! He started up anyway and within weeks, his library was competitive with my library that I'd been building for 13 years (at the time(18 years, now)) & he was working 3 different locations (some on the same day...) - I can't verify that he carried out his scheme, but I know that when the law suits hit - he was nowhere to be seen (in the wind), although I've been told he does the Elk's club (being a private club, they can use anything, even youtube, if they want... grrr!!).
3) My venue's sister bar was hit - their DJ/KJ apparently had 3 shows a night, from time to time & only 1 library. He was fired for being sketchy before the lawsuit was dropped in the owner's lap, which lead to some confusion, since I was the only contracted KJ at the time of the subpoena being served, for the wrong bar/wrong city - so the lawyer suggested linking the bars to take advantage of the double indemnity law (even though it is NOT a criminal case, which is why I suspect collusion, as I have not passed the bar & think that' a ridiculous way to get twice as much out of the trusting customer). I was asked if I had all my discs & invoices for digital acquisitions, to which: "of course" was the answer, so the pre-trial circus of not going to trial started. They did some real nasty stuff to try to discredit the owner (couldn't be done), they also kept asking for "their" songbook - to which the reply could only be: I sell food & alcohol - I don't have ANY songbooks (which is true & a strong indicator, that they were suing the wrong person!!!! You might argue: but why didn't they use a certified host? To which the answer is simple: there was no such thing before all this nonsense, & as pointed out in other posts, there still isn't - mostly there are certified pirates!!). Since that lawsuit against the sister venue for a bad KJ/DJ (who's now certified I understand.... grrr again) the legal costs were extreme, in compensation I (apparently in a form of apology for the industry itself) & to try to stay working at a locale it took me nearly a decade to become known enough to get in at) have settled for (in lieu of losing my 2 slower nights, instead adjusting my rate daily, to reflect a weekly difference of 2 shows less) So the honest KJ gets screwed & the pirates get that famous welcome aboard handshake... yay...
4) The reason sports team players are not allowed to bet on the game or referees are not allowed to play or bet... is exactly why the producers shouldn't be able to be able to claim the referee/"moral beacon" of an industry that they used to play an important role in. Pirates are rewarded, Bar-owners are punished - along with struggling genuine KJ's the Trademark troll companies are dead to me as a future customer... I haven't decided if I want to resort to using the discs, due to risk, inconvenience and the fact that the "valuable trade dress," makes me nauseous upon viewing them... I wonder if that qualifies as PTSD? Maybe I can file a frivolous lawsuit!

Wow....did you just stick your tongue and go "nah, nah, nah, nah, nah", too? I suppose next you will be telling me your mom can beat up my mom?

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-Chris

Nope. I really do feel sorry for you.

Based on your previous posts, if you pay hosts up to (or over $100) if they promote on social media, then you've been making LESS than $50/night after you account for insurance, repairs, gasoline, etc. And based on the amount you've spent on discs, gem licenses, phm licenses, chartbuster drives, lights, computers, etc... that takes a WHOLE LOT of <$50 nights to break even.

It's very easy in this business to move a lot of money around, but not really keep much in the process leading to a false sense of success.

I'm not saying that this is you... but it is a real effect.

How I define success isn't predicated on your opinion or perception of me. Nor is it based on my income level.

However, for your own benefit, I challenge you to take my published information and calculate an annual gross revenue and then try to derive my net karaoke income. When you do, get back to me with how poorly I must be doing so I can smile at how wrong you are on the numbers as well as how far off base you are regarding my definition of success.

It doesn't matter to me how much or how little revenue my business generates so long as I accomplish the goals I have. The money is secondary to other things that are more important to me. Just so happens that the money is great, pays all the bills and leaves me with enough left over to be a little frivolous.

Oh....I also have a pretty good (and entirely optional) day job.

So please don't feel sorry for me. I am doing just fine.

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-Chris

I understand that, and how I define success certainly isn't predicated on your opinion either. Usually in business, the measurement of success is determined by a monetary yardstick: constantly losing money - even at a trickle rate - has never been a measure of success, but one of a slow lingering business death.

If your measurement of success isn't based on a monetary standard but how/if you achieve your goals or just "feel good", then money isn't a necessary element in your karaoke business, but how your feel about it and whatever non-monetary goals you wish to achieve. Not a judgment, just an observation.


I don't care about your "published information" for a couple reasons; (1) it may not be true and (2) it's incomplete without knowing what you've spent in capital investments to be where you are today. That's none of my business and I'm not interested in it anyway. Your repeated bragging over the years of "I bought this and I bought that, and I have lights and I have multiple gems and multiple chartbuster drives and I pay my hosts better..." blah, blah, blah, doesn't do much for your image. But just a conservative cursory analysis of your business:
$6,000.00 = 2 gem series
$3,000.00 = 1 PHM license
$2,400.00 = 2 charbuster drives
$5,000.00 = bulk disc purchases, etc...
-----------
$16,000 Total not including any sound systems

$2,000.00 per system for computers, sound, lighting, cables, microphones, songbooks, etc.
times 8 systems
=========
$16,000.00 total.

You been charging:
+ $150/ night
- $100 to host
--------
$50.00 gross/night and not including any other expenses (like repairs or insurance) AT ALL, it would take 640 "nights of karaoke" with you not making a single dime. And even longer if you include the interest you'd lose on the original $32,000 investment.

So, you might as well feel good about it, because it's taken a loooong time to pay back your investment.

And again, these are just conservative estimations. I don't really care otherwise.



I feel sorry for you because you've just made every excuse in the book for not being as profitable as you could have been from the start. Anyone can appear overnight with multiple systems if you throw enough money at it and don't have to care about paying the other bills in the meantime. What you've accomplished isn't magic at all. Tell me you started your business with $42 in your pocket 3 years ago and I'll be impressed.

But that's your business...

For not caring, you still took the time to fabricate your information in a feeble attempt to.......accomplish whatever it is you are attempting to accomplish.

No sense correcting your numbers because I don't think anyone really cares what you have to say about my profitability anyway.

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-Chris

You could have ended that last sentence four words early.

I think we're done here..