Karaoke Forums

A couple of years ago at one of my shows, I actually had a pirate who would come in frequently. I told the owner that he might get a visit from her and try to undercut me. I explained to the owner about piracy and how hiring a pirate may put you at risk of a lawsuit. The owner thanked me very much for that information as he was unaware of the situation. That pirate did try to undercut me but since the owner now had a understanding of the situation, told her where to go.

Point is, I disagree with being labeled a trouble maker by educating establishment owners. If you owned a bar, and knew nothing about this stuff, wouldn't you want to know about something that may, not only harm your business and reputation but also cost you several hundred thousand dollars. I know I would.

So, I disagree with not talking to bar owners. All you can do is offer the information. What they choose to do next is up to them. But I don't see many bar owners that would be so stubborn as to put their business on the line in order to save a buck once they understand.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

In reality they already HAVE stolen from you - you just may not realize it. Before piracy all kj's could make 2-3x what they make today and actually make a comfortable living (if it was your sole job). Today it's more like extra cash and you can't make a true living off of just karaoke anymore unless you are a multi rig op. The is where the stealing part comes into play, a kj not make a decent wage anymore because of the pirates!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Correction.... a kj can not make a decent wage anymore because of pirates AND all those hobbyists who wanted to sing more, and decided to buy a cheap system and host their own shows.

In fact, it was all of those hobbyists (not the pirates) who materialized and drew the prices down by over-saturating the market. When these pirates came into play (with their fully loaded hard drives at costs of next to nothing) and joined the game, the going rate had already dropped to the level it has been at (for these past 12 years or so).

Karaoke IS my sole income. Am I going to get rich?? No. But I certainly can live and provide for my son.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

The majority of the 'hobbyist' kj's still have pirated sets of music - at least most of the ones I've ever seen, but yes they even drive the prices down further because they just want to have a night singing and drinking often doing shows for next to nothing or bar tabs only.

This may have been true at one time, but still willing to bet even those hobbyists have pirated drives now days.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Agreed. A serious karaoke singer is going to have a hard drive or know where to download for free. So, yes, they are all one and the same.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

So you would report venues, KJs and your SINGERS??? You don't expect to be buried in a barrel somewhere??

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Sure - nowdays. Back before pirates killed the market it wasn't just a minimal thing. You could have lived & provided for your son plus have extra income for whatever on a regular basis. They stole the market, driving down prices from legit hosts because they go in and lowball - ergo they stole from what you COULD have made. That is the point I'm trying to make.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

the situation you describe is you in a venue you already have and have been at. they know and trust you plus you are not trying to take the show FROM a lower priced KJ. going to a venue that you do not already have and discussing that is a much more dangerous idea.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

one reason only, WE are being asked to go do the legwork educating the venues, plus hunting and reporting pirates. that should garner their resources in our favor as a thank you. even the safe harbour packets Jim mentioned aearlier are not free to us, you want them to give out to bars, you pay for them.
THAT is why.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Lon, you know what? I am not going to cry about it. I make a decent living doing something that I enjoy, FOR ONCE in my life. So I don't make $300 a night. Would that be nice?? Yeah, I am sure it would. I can also tell you that this area probably NEVER paid that much. I got into this a couple years ago, as a permanent thing. I didn't get into it at the old rates, that some of you made. There would be no point in me complaining. The market isn't going to turn around any time soon, and to sit there and get other KJs and venues in trouble would be to kill Karaoke in my area. No thanks.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I would go for the kill.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I am not worried about it. I believe it was Chris who posted a while back that being certified and enlightening bar owners about piracy and pirates had actually helped him get jobs. As for me, I plan to continue to let bar owners know what's going on in the industry. After that, it's they're choice. But I will not back down. I am not a p_ssy.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

The hobbyists which I speak of may own pirated hard drives now (of illegally obtained song tracks), but the damage to the market rate was done long before that. It was the hobbyists (at least in my area) who drew the prices down from $250-350 (average) back in 98-99, to $150-200 back in 2000. And then they started undercutting, which drove the prices down even more.

This may be true today, but 15 years ago, it wasn't. Maybe you saw more hobbyists with burned copies of another KJ's library (which they paid pennies on the dollar for), but I saw the opposite. Most of the people I knew (the hobbyists) who wanted to become a KJ, had already been building up their own private collection. They bought and paid for their CDGs through legitimate dealers (such as East Coast Karaoke, Karaoke.com, Doowop.com, TSC.com, etc...). I only knew of 2 or 3 KJ's who had copied material (this is not saying that more didn't exist).

Excuse me Alan, but I resent that GENERALIZATION. I am (what you would consider to be) a "Serious Karaoke Singer," yet my entire library was legitimately bought and paid for through legitimate dealers (both B&M Stores and ONLINE dealers). I do not own a hard drive, and although I may know of several download sites where I can obtain more tracks (for free or at next to nothing), I choose not to use them. Do NOT put me in the same classification as the others you know and resent.

remember....you are the exception. as a general rule your singers have more songs than you do and paid for very few if any. it is kinda the same thing that hosts go through...we are all pirates until we prove otherwise to SC.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Sorry if I offended you. Maybe I used the wrong choice of words, but the fact remains that "many" hobbyists (not the casual singer) have bought a hard drive or download their karaoke tracks for free.

Do you think that the customers who bring in their own flash drives loaded with SC songs actually ripped them from legally purchased SC discs? Think again. I have one customer who brings in a flash drive loaded with (you guessed it) SC tracks. I also know that he doesn't buy them. I also know that he's friends with a pirate host. Put it all together, what does it add up to?

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I missed this part of the Soundchoice licencing agreement where they said they expect "educating the venues, plus hunting and reporting pirates." I'm pretty sure Soundchoice is only looking out for themselves and their interests, and I'm pretty sure us KJs should do the same.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Apology accepted.... And thank you for adding the word "many." That does make a difference, and I can accept that statement (as it stands) much better.


To answer your question... YES!!! ... At least 1 person I know of... ME!!! You made reference to one person who you know personally. How about a stranger like me? I also come to shows with a flash drive containing about 150 songs on it. They happen to be a mixed bag of brands (PS, SC, THMC, PIO, DK, MM, LC, SBI). If I should happen to come to your show with my personal burned discs and flash drive, would you automatically ASSUME the worst of me???

Yes.

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-Chris