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Murray C
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 Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:18 am |
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ripman8 wrote: If you have someone who is an obvious honest customer, you just-don't-do-this-to-them! Period! Just how do you determine a KJ is an "obvious honest customer" when said KJ is observed playing tracks from a hard drive? How do you know that KJ has all the original tracks paid for and not using tracks dishonestly obtained? Making a copy of a product and trademark without lawful permission for use in a commercial business is hardly an honest practice in my opinion. If it is the KJ's decision to make such a copy without first obtaining permission to do so, why should it fall on the manufacturer to foot the bill for rectifying that? All the claims I have seen here regarding the reasons why a KJ shouldn't have to pay for an audit seem to disregard the fact that it is for the KJ's own convenience and business enhancement that the "media shifting" is done in the first place. If the KJ has done that without permission, then the KJ has made a mistake and I don't think it is the manufacturer's responsibility to pay the costs of rectifying that mistake.
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thewraith
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:58 am |
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Uhm from what I understand Soundchoice does Not have the right to allow you to Media shift (as they do now OWN THE RIGHTS ). This is trademark infringement ( their logo). But here is an example, If the KJ in question works for lets say a KJ company with Multiple night gigs in several places lets say Kurtis night Karaoke, and they Have SC music and all the files are exact. I sure as hell Doubt he has 10 copies of EVERYTHING 1:1. Now Where I am going to Move my music to disks, have bought my fair share of Music Minus my time in Iraq, And Saudi Arabia. Gonna be dragged to court if I don't pay to be audited Not have a free one and be considered certified, its telling me they arent going after pirates, They don't want to waste Money for real investigations just pool anyone who doesnt want to be black mailed into paying $120- 200 per outfit meaning SC CB . It is Biting the hand that feeds, "If Soundchoice wants friends free is key" same goes for Chartbuster. I am a long way off from copying completion, but when I'm done I offer them to audit me for free at a time and place of My convenience,or buy my disks back scratched or Brand new looking.. 2 years with out new Sound choice Might as well call if forever.
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ripman8
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:38 am |
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Jay Dedman wrote: ripman8 wrote: If you have someone who is an obvious honest customer, you just-don't-do-this-to-them! Period! Just how do you determine a KJ is an "obvious honest customer" when said KJ is observed playing tracks from a hard drive? How do you know that KJ has all the original tracks paid for and not using tracks dishonestly obtained? All the claims I have seen here regarding the reasons why a KJ shouldn't have to pay for an audit seem to disregard the fact that it is for the KJ's own convenience and business enhancement that the "media shifting" is done in the first place. If the KJ has done that without permission, then the KJ has made a mistake and I don't think it is the manufacturer's responsibility to pay the costs of rectifying that mistake. llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll Well maybe I should clarify since you did not take this the right way. When I say HONEST, I mean HONEST! So in other words, someone requests an audit on their own. NOT someone who has been served or someone who is stealing music. SC needs to figure out how to "foot the bill" from the ones not investing in SC by buying (or possibly receiving for free) illegally. NOT from those that spent thousands of dollars on their music and can at anytime prove it! ""All the claims I have seen here regarding the reasons why a KJ shouldn't have to pay for an audit seem to disregard the fact that it is for the KJ's own convenience and business enhancement that the "media shifting" is done in the first place. "" My convenience or not, I shouldn't have to pay because SC can't figure out how to control the pirating. That's their job, not mind and I shouldn't suffer because of it! My company has had problems with knockoffs from other companies. We don't go after our honest customers, we go after the root cause!
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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]
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thewraith
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:01 am |
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Well said Ty, Harrington law have anything to ad? Cough cough.
Counselor?
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Murray C
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:06 am |
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ripman8 wrote: My convenience or not, I shouldn't have to pay because SC can't figure out how to control the pirating. That's their job, not mind and I shouldn't suffer because of it! And SC should have to pay because you want to be able to use the tracks, not in the original format that you bought them, but in a format that you find is more convenient for your business? Hey Mr. Ford! I just modified my Shelby GT500 but I now have to pay the DMV to certify it suitable for use on public roads. Mr. Ford, you should pay for that certification!
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hiteck
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:24 am |
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Jay Dedman wrote: And SC should have to pay because you want to be able to use the tracks, not in the original format that you bought them, but in a format that you find is more convenient for your business?
Hey Mr. Ford! I just modified my Shelby GT500 but I now have to pay the DMV to certify it suitable for use on public roads. Mr. Ford, you should pay for that certification! SC (Mr. Ford) is the one wanting you to certify the media shifted files (Shelby GT500), not some other government agency (DMV).
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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:20 pm |
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the law says we can backup music. even RIAA lets you rip to hard drive for your convenience because it's legal to do. no audit, nothin. even music videos (audio-visual work) is good on hard drive. the only reason we can't with karaoke is the SC or CB logo. A-V works are ok on drives, ok to use backups, the DJ industry relies on it. how many DJ's were working off of laptops on the grammy's?
using a technicality to sue like showing the logo is legal.......just crappy.
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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens
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timberlea
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:23 pm |
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Jay, how dare you use logic and the law in this discussion.   . They want to do whatever they want when they want. I mean I have never in my life ever dealt with a dishonest person. From those who broke criminal law or a traffic law. Everybody tells me the truth. In fact it saves money on investigations.
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You can be strange but not a stranger
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ripman8
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:20 pm |
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Jay Dedman wrote: ripman8 wrote: My convenience or not, I shouldn't have to pay because SC can't figure out how to control the pirating. That's their job, not mind and I shouldn't suffer because of it! And SC should have to pay because you want to be able to use the tracks, not in the original format that you bought them, but in a format that you find is more convenient for your business? Hey Mr. Ford! I just modified my Shelby GT500 but I now have to pay the DMV to certify it suitable for use on public roads. Mr. Ford, you should pay for that certification! Your point is dead in this debate. SC said a long time ago that it was ok to shift and go 1 : 1 as long as you could prove it. I've paid thousands of $$ on my library, I'm not putting more into it. I get no intrinsic value for it! I'll prove it to them, but I'M NOT PAYING TO DO IT! I won't argue with you anymore, we will have to agree to disagree. Bottom line is I shouldn't have to pay more because there are crooks out there STEALING the music for pennies or tenths of pennies on the dollar of what I paid for. I'll say it one last time: If you have someone who is an obvious honest customer, you just-don't-do-this-to-them! Period! Doesn't make good business sense to pizz off your end users! Figure it out SC!
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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]
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gd123
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:22 am |
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Jay Dedman wrote: "...for use in a commercial business..." com·mer·cial (k-mûrshl) adj. 1. a. Of or relating to commerce: a commercial loan; a commercial attaché. b. Engaged in commerce: a commercial trucker. c. Involved in work that is intended for the mass market: a commercial artist. 2. Of, relating to, or being goods, often unrefined, produced and distributed in large quantities for use by industry. 3. Having profit as a chief aim: a commercial book, not a scholarly tome. 4. Sponsored by an advertiser or supported by advertising: commercial television. n. A paid advertisement on television or radio. The KJ DOES NOT ENGAGE IN COMMERCE!
The KJ IS NOT THE "FIRST PARTY" to any GOOD OR SERVICE dealing with COMMERCE!
The KJ DOES NOT MANUFACTURE ANYTHING!
It is quit simple, ask yourself, "Does the KJ have a business that does what SC does?"
The KJ IS SECOND PARTY TO ALL THIS!
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timberlea
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:16 am |
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The exchange of a product or service is commerce, ie commercial. By your definition, a barber, cleaners or anyone else providing a service for money or other considerations is not a commercial enterprise. I wouldn't go into court with that defence.
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Murray C
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:17 am |
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I'm deeply sorry gd123 and thankyou for your insight. What a dumba$$ I was to have possibly considered that a KJ's business would fit into the definition of "commercial"! The text you highlighted is clearly the only meaning in the definition to be considered. In future, and in due respect of your unsurpassed knowledge, I will disregard all other meanings of the word "commercial", especially this one: 3. Having profit as a chief aimHow stupid of me to assume that the chief aim of a KJ's business was to make a profit. Please accept my sincere apologies for such a blatant oversight. Oh, by the way. I came across the following, which helps to affirm your assertion: ogdencity.com wrote: What is a Commercial Business?
Any enterprise carried on for the purpose of gain or economic profit, including, but not limited to, the sale of real or personal property at retail or wholesale, the bartering or trading of property or services, the manufacturing of goods or property and the rendering of personal services for others for a consideration by persons engaged in any profession, trade, craft, business, occupation or other calling
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timberlea
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:21 am |
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Jay, quit bringing common sense into things, you're only going to confuse people. 
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PyleDriver
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:46 am |
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Well I learned along time ago you don't crap where you sleep. When the smoke clears from all this, will Sound Choice be able to resume business as they have? I Think not. If we KJ's or any company treated customers like this we would be out of business...I think their main mistake was hiring the people they did to investigate. It is obvious they had no experence in our field. I can walk into a place, look around and before someone asks me what I want to drink, I can pretty much smell a rat. Give me 5 mins of conversation with the KJ, and I'll have your answer. Most people love to boast, a few questions and out it pours. People that are up and up will tell you with pride of their collection and the years it took. Funny thing is the theves will too, and how they got them...One thing I've found with these thieves that they all have in common around here is they have no songbook. When you ask for one, they boast they have over 40,000 or so songs and all you have to do is give them the name of the song. Then I ask, well I prefer Sound Choice when I sing, bing...Once I asked do you have the original disc for those songs, he said oh ya we do, my brothers nice has the set and our whole family uses them. Mind you there 4 of them usings the same set, if there is a set. Took me ten minutes to find out....
Jon
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gd123
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:05 am |
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Jay Dedman wrote: 3. Having profit as a chief aimOh, by the way. I came across the following, which helps to affirm your assertion: ogdencity.com wrote: What is a Commercial Business?
Any enterprise carried on for the purpose of gain or economic profit, including, but not limited to, the sale of real or personal property at retail or wholesale, the bartering or trading of property or services, the manufacturing of goods or property and the rendering of personal services for others for a consideration by persons engaged in any profession, trade, craft, business, occupation or other calling I see you found a reference to what you need to comply with a Business License. Do you have a Business License? I see you, also, fell into the trap that Harrington Law has set...that your MAIN INTENTION in your "Business Venture" is to make a "PROFIT" and that you admitted it in this Forum for use against you if you arrive in court. I haven't fallen for that admission. My ONLY INTENT for my SHOW is to allow a venue for people to SING...NOT TO MAKE A PROFIT...which is a contradiction of terms to KARAOKE. I do not advertise, sell, manufacture, or SERVICE anything.
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ripman8
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:36 am |
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PyleDriver wrote: Well I learned along time ago you don't crap where you sleep. When the smoke clears from all this, will Sound Choice be able to resume business as they have? I Think not. If we KJ's or any company treated customers like this we would be out of business...I think their main mistake was hiring the people they did to investigate. It is obvious they had no experence in our field. I can walk into a place, look around and before someone asks me what I want to drink, I can pretty much smell a rat. Give me 5 mins of conversation with the KJ, and I'll have your answer. Most people love to boast, a few questions and out it pours. People that are up and up will tell you with pride of their collection and the years it took. Funny thing is the thieves will too, and how they got them...One thing I've found with these thieves that they all have in common around here is they have no songbook. When you ask for one, they boast they have over 40,000 or so songs and all you have to do is give them the name of the song. Then I ask, well I prefer Sound Choice when I sing, bing...Once I asked do you have the original disc for those songs, he said oh ya we do, my brothers nice has the set and our whole family uses them. Mind you there 4 of them usings the same set, if there is a set. Took me ten minutes to find out....
Jon Like!
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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]
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JimHarrington
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:12 am |
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gd123 wrote: I haven't fallen for that admission. My ONLY INTENT for my SHOW is to allow a venue for people to SING...NOT TO MAKE A PROFIT...which is a contradiction of terms to KARAOKE. I do not advertise, sell, manufacture, or SERVICE anything. Does the venue pay you for the privilege? If so, why?
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Bazza
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:28 pm |
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PyleDriver wrote: Well I learned along time ago you don't crap where you sleep. When the smoke clears from all this, will Sound Choice be able to resume business as they have? I disagree completely. If SC started releasing songs again, with the same high quality as in the past, I am confident they would sell just fine. The number of boycotting protesters would be small compared to the number of buyers looking for high quality songs.
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thewraith
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:40 pm |
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Bazza wrote:
I disagree completely. If SC started releasing songs again, with the same high quality as in the past, I am confident they would sell just fine. The number of boycotting protesters would be small compared to the number of buyers looking for high quality songs.
With what anti piracy measures in place? Financing?
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kjathena
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:11 pm |
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I wouldn't need financing or any more anti-piracy measure than we have right now....the "partnership" is working just fine for me.
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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
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"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
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