Karaoke Forums

I think you glossed over the intent of the question. I don't have a 20 year reputation to promote. I have a 1.5 year reputation in a metropolitan area of 3.5 million people. My reputation in my immediate vicinity is pretty good. Ten miles down the road with 20 other karaoke shows in the middle, they don't know who I am.



Those are all awesome qualities for a karaoke host. But those traits can't be seen until after a gig is secured. I can sell my personality during an "interview", but so can many a pirate KJ.



It has been brought up before - there are many bar/venue owners that are clueless about karaoke. If KJ1 says they can bring in 50 more people for a charge of $200 and KJ2 says they can bring in 50 more people for $75, I firmly believe most bar owners will go with the $75 dollar host - unless - I have something else to differentiate myself with.



The marketing only goes so far. I can try jeans on before I buy. I am considering offering up a free show (or even two) to get my foot in the door against the cheap guys to prove that everything you talked about above exists instead of them simply taking me at my word.



Joe, I respect your position on this and I don't wish to be argumentative about it. The reality is this -

I am a relatively new KJ. I don't have a long history and lengthy reputation to back up any claims with. I have to be able to market myself with other things. Legality, certification, quality equipment, size and diversity of library are part of that. I am a big, old, ugly guy that walks into a bar and says "Hey...I can bring 30-40 more paying customers into your bar every night you let me do a karaoke show and I will charge you $200/night to do that".

I am competing against 20 something part-time models with a few hundred dollars...maybe $1000 invested in a rig and they will do a show for $50-75.

The bars don't know our reputations. They only know what they see right in front of them when I "interview". I have to sell my personality against a pirate that may have an equally good personality and demeanor. The pirate is also going to claim they can bring in paying customers the same as me. I differentiate myself from an equally personable, low cost pirate with an investment in quality sound, lighting, legal and certified library of music. Until I get my foot in the door, I can't prove that I am a good host and keep people coming to a show.

I think that last paragraph sums it up for me and maybe even some long time hosts that work in larger markets.

I will wrap up with this - This week I started reaching out to my regulars and asking them to be available to vouch for me if a venue I am pitching to is willing to contact them. A few have even said they would come along with me when I speak to the owners. That is one way I can get my reputation in front of prospective venues.

-Chris

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-Chris

Bars are like many people, cheap. Take two exact pairs of Levi's for example. The discount store which is very drab has them for $25, and the exclusive store which is fancy and will offer you coffee and donuts has them for $100, where do you think most people are going to go? Same product, people will go where the sales are. There is a reason why dollar stores do a booming business.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

A few years back, when most everyone was disc based, I argued on here, that computer karaoke was going to be the way of the near future. I heard, no way, illegal, too much room for a hard drive.....yadayadayada
Computers made it too easy, which increased competition at least ten fold......one big reason, I gave it up. Pirated cdgs, were no where near the problem, mp3+gs have created....I miss spinning cdgs......

So what happens if legal KJs undercut your price?

Sure they do, however the high majority - at least around here do not command a higher price, they drive down the market by charging $100 or less. I quit doing mobile shows because no bar wanted to pay more than $100, and if I actually got one that did - we'd be there long enough to build the crowd, then we were undercut by someone doing it half the cost, lose the crowds - they always did try to call me back, however they did not want to pay my new 'higher' rate, no loss - they dropped me once, chances are they would've done it again, not worth my time & effort promoting a club just to have someone come and steal it or the bar seek out cheaper prices thinking it's just karaoke! 3 of those bars are out of business or changed owners now.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

if it is a legal KJ, that just becomes capitalism.

the 2 stores selling jeans is capitalism, add in a third store selling jeans they stole off the truck for $5.00 a pair, and the difference becomes disturbing.

Lon,
it's just karaoke is still a prevalent opinion of owners out here now too.
hit the nail on the head there sir.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Haven't seen that too often, I did in the early 90's, but this was when companies were also charging $300-400 per night and getting it. Most legal kj's have some decent money invested into their discs & equipment and consider this more of a job than just a way to make a few bucks, but then most of the 'legal' kj's in this area are going for more private parties than club work and leaving that to the undercutters - often times ruining the karaoke reputation when it goes south for the club.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I've never had a legal KJ undercut me... One tried once but his reputation preceded him and he wasn't hired

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

Most of the time, it's only tempory, and sometimes they'll even offer to do it free for a few nights. They will slip the manager or owner, their card, tell him/her how much better they are than this KJ, how much better their sh!t is, what a great following they have, but they won't sign a contract(even if they did, no one's going to enforce it). Venue lets old KJ go, hires the new one who gradually asks for more money, or flat out sucks.....or both. Crowd dwindles, revenue falls off a cliff, the word karaoke takes a big negative hit, they fire the KJ, claim karaoke just doesn't work.......and often go out of business.

We have a semi-retired disc host in our area who is contemplating doing shows for $30 as he just wants his gas money, his beer and to keep his hand in for the fun of it. Don't know if he is getting anywhere yet.

In my opinion, the biggest issue going forward for folks who are DJ/KJ for a living is not piracy but the hobby KJ. If you have a full-time income that supports your family, you can afford to be legal, buy good equipment and be competitive with rates. There is your threat.

My business is 80% trivia shows with karaoke shows being limited to private parties or corporate functions. You think you have competitors? My competition can either just print questions off the internet or order complete game packages for as little as $4 per week. I have to invest in carts, signage, shirts, laptops, powered speakers, microphones, etc. for my hosts as well as franchise fees and weekly game fees, yet we have become the largest trivia provider in the market in less than one year. How? We do 26 shows per week and provide a better product and we have proven our value to the venues. There's the answer.

legit hosts have to deal with pirates and crapioke....some can be one and the same but not always. I have seen some pirate shows that were run very well and I always tried to convince the host to get legal....I have seen some Legal hosts that were so poor they didnt know how to change keys. As a company that relies ONLY on karaoke we have to fight both.

Let a bar run tru 10+ crappioke( mostly pirate) and they do begin to believe karaoke can't work.....boy is that a hard row to hoe...even at a venue you had worked at for years prior to them trying to save money

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Well, in my opinion, SC & CB didn't help any legal KJs that have been doing this for several years, by comming out with the digital sets. I think it only helped pirates under the gun, and people just getting into the market, by making it cheaper and easier.

They aren't out to help legal KJs. They're out to recoup profits. I don't blame them, but let's call it what it really is.

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Birdofsong

You are absolutely correct. Hosting abilities have nothing to do with how they acquire their music.

The original question was about competing with CHEAP hosts, which is what my answer was referring to.

The answer to yours is as it always has been. Keep working harder to be better than the GOOD competion out there. Offer more and better service, etc..

Of course, personal preferance of the singers is the biggie. The people who like baton style, fast, "get the next one up NOW" speed shows won't like mine, where there is always some "star time" and audience banter. Conversely, those who like my style won't like the other.

In other words, sometimes it's just up to the patrons...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

For SC and CB it may be about recovering lost revenue and having a vehilce in which to do so, but it's also something any manufacturer needs to do to stay competetive in a changing industry.

The karaoke industry has changed because of technology that makes it much easier for anyone to enter at any level (manufacturing, distributer, KJ, singer) with a lower investment than ever before. As long as the technology exists, things will never return to the "good old days".

It's very similar to what has become of the newspaper industry as technology advancements through computers and internet have made it possible for anyone to compete with old style newpapers.

Craigslist has taken all of the profitability out of newspaper classified ads. There are fewer and fewer people who care to sit with an ink and paper product. The paperboy doesn't exist to deliver anymore because subscribers are too far apart. The newspaper (as well as tv news) companies have had to move into the future, find new ways to compete, develop an internet presence, among other things, or go out of business.

We in the karaoke industry are in the same boat. It is up to us to find ways to remain competetive in the "good new days" because the Streisand clock can't be turned back to "the way we were".

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KNOW THYSELF

With the way gas prices are going to b this year, that will barely cover his gas.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

You really don't know just how lucky you are.
I am paying $9.45 a gallon.

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Nope. I was a bartender, manager, and part owner over the years. They are not cheap- they run a business for profit.

The reason we get more money for parties than for venues is twofold.

A: A party is a oneshot, and is considered a write-off for the client. They don't expect to make money, only to have a good time.

B: The venue job is ongoing, which kind of adds up to a volume discount.

Going back to my original statement, venues are out to make money. If they can make more profit from a $250 host bringing in 2K + than a $75 KJ bringing in $350 then they will hire the more expensive host. On the other hand, if the $75 host is BETTER than the $250 KJ, and brings in MORE profit, they hire that one.

No bar owner in his/her right mind is going to risk thousands in profits to save $175 up front.

It's all about the money.

If a host loses a show to an undercutter, said host either wasn't pulling in enough profit to protect the gig, or the undercutter was a better salesperson- which the venue owner will learn to his/her regret later..

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."