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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:43 pm 
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birdofsong wrote:
PyleDriver wrote:
I'm sure your right Bobby, but our point is that there is no need to look any further than receipts for sound choice materials... We filled three 1099's with the IRS for 2011, and why would you need to see those Jim?

Jon



Jon,

I don't think they're really looking for receipts. I think they're looking for proof of income made from what they consider a breach. Any income made is theoretically attachable as damages.

Now -- here's the hypothetical worst-case scenario --

You sign the agreement, lease the GEM, and are doing everything right. Suddenly, either by virtue of a competitor or perhaps a bumbling investigator, you are accused of breaching the contract and NOW your financial records, including all of your income, are fair game. And of course you have to defend yourself in North Carolina, because you've signed away diversity and are no longer entitled to have the case heard in Federal Court in your state.

My advice is to read and think carefully, and always keep the worst-case scenario in mind. Nobody ever have a problem until they do. Expect the best, but plan for the worst.


There is the only 'rub' I have... I'm not willing to travel to NC to defend myself especially if I know I've done nothing wrong,.. which I know I won't. Am debating the pro's and con's to signing that contract now. I'll probably go ahead with it though.. and IF, big IF I get named, I'll pull out a credit card and take a trip back east.. ew.. and then I'd have to take all my 'proof'... pain in the buttocks there.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:49 pm 
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HarringtonLaw wrote:
Lisah wrote:
Mr. Harrington,
I'm curious, if I sign the SC agreement and get certified but still get named in a suit ... do I have to go to NC to defend myself?


The audit acknowledgement? I don't see a forum selection clause in that document at all. In the unlikely event that you were sued, it would be in your home district.

Lisah wrote:
Also, if there's any part of the SC we don't agree to, is there any other way to get SC to allow us to media shift the SC discs that we own?


No.


Harrington says here that it would be in my home district... is this statement legally binding?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:02 pm 
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PyleDriver wrote:
I have the Gem plus 900 songs being shipped to us now.
Jon



PyleDriver wrote:
The one that gets me Lonnie is the change of venue to NC. Nobody in their right mind should sign off on that...

Jon


If you have a gem set being shipped to you now you have already signed off on that, amongst other things:

Quote:
Regardless of your present situation (whether you
are in a lawsuit with Sound Choice or trying to avoid one by the legal purchase of a set of discs or just
starting in business) you will be making a substantial investment in your business by the licensing of these
Tracks.


Yes you agreed your purchase has nothing to do with music unless you are just starting.


Considering you are signing a contract with a company that makes it’s living on technicalities (media shifting has never been declared illegal by any court and there is no law on the books addressing it), doesn’t it make sense to pay attention to the technicalities in the contract you are signing?

Here are a few:

In the definitions section the Gem set is never defined. Yet they do define “original media”

Quote:
The terms “Original Medium” and “Original Media” refer to one or more Media originally
produced by us or at our direction and containing one or more Tracks.


Doesn’t that sound like it could include your foundations set or any other soundchoice disc you own?

Quote:
The term “Content,” particularly including the “Content” of an Original Medium, refers to the
Tracks and any other material stored on that Original Medium.


Quote:
The term “including” means “including without limitation” or “including but not limited to.”


Quote:
The terms “Medium” and “Media” (used alone) refer to any mechanism for storing digital files of
any type, including hard drives, thumb drives, solid-state media, compact discs (CDs), digital
versatile discs (DVDs), portable digital music players, other mechanisms not yet invented, and
the like.


Quote:
You acknowledge and agree that the ownership of all Media, including all right, title,
and interest therein, belongs to Sound Choice and will remain with Sound Choice throughout the term
of this Agreement. You also acknowledge that all rights in the Media and the Content not specifically
granted to you by operation of law or expressly granted through this Agreement are reserved to Sound
Choice


Technically speaking of course, if you pay attention to the agreed definitions in the contract, doesn’t that sound like soundchoice now owns your library and your equipment too? Not that they would ever exercise the rights you have given them, because you would never give them reason to.

Quote:
You may NOT transfer possession of the
Original Media or Non-Original Medium to any third party unless (i) you have OUR written
permission to do so, or (ii) you complete and return a “Certificate for Conveyance of Sound
Choice Licensed Media”, which can be obtained from us and insure that the third party
executes the then-current version of this Agreement with Sound Choice as a condition of the
transfer


With the agreed definitions, doesn’t that mean you can’t sell your SC8125 on ebay without permission from soundchoice and the buyer would have to sign the agreement too?

Quote:
CONSENT TO AUDIT. You consent to an audit to confirm your compliance with the terms of
this Agreement, on one week’s notice, on your property at reasonable times. You will comply in
all reasonable respects with such audits, making available for a physical and electronic
inspection your equipment, files, external drives and accounting records relating to karaoke
entertainment activities. You agree that the audit coverage extends to any Sound Choice®-
branded karaoke track in your possession. We agree that we will not audit you more than once
per calendar year.


I suspect that means they get to look at all of your files, and scour your hard drive for deletions (all drives), and peek into your financials once a year when ever they feel like it.

Quote:
This Agreement, including Appendix A, constitutes the
entire agreement between the parties on the subject matter to which it relates, and this Agreement
may not be modified except (a) by a writing signed by both parties, or (b) by our written notice to you of
a change in terms coupled with your failure to refuse the change in terms within 90 days after that
notice was given, or (c) as to any non-accepted change in terms under part (b) above, automatically
upon renewal of this Agreement as provided in paragraph 7(a) above. Any part of this Agreement that
is found by a court of competent jurisdiction to be unenforceable shall be severed herefrom and the
remaining terms enforced to the greatest extent possible.


The wording is complicated, but in it’s strictest meaning, it appears to say that soundchoice is allowed to modify your contract with them by simply giving you 90 days notice. I wonder what kind of modifications they are thinking of that they couldn't just put in the original contract?

But who cares? These are just minor technicalities that would be quickly and easily resolved in court. But court is what you’re trying to avoid? Don’t worry it comes with a vaction:

Quote:
FORUM SELECTION AND CHOICE OF LAWS. The parties agree to the jurisdiction of the state and
federal courts sitting in Mecklenburg County, North Carolina, over any dispute arising under this
Agreement or involving your infringement of Sound Choice’s copyrights and/or trademarks, waiving all
objections to personal jurisdiction and venue therein. The parties further agree that the substantive
laws of the State of North Carolina shall apply to such disputes, without resort to the conflicts of laws
provisions thereof. The choice of forum and choice of laws provisions hereunder are bargained-for
terms of this Agreement
.


But there’s no chance that would happen. After all, you paid for the music, you’ve been a good customer, why would they ever want to come after you for more money?

Besides, you won’t ever put yourself in the position to be in breach of this contract:

Quote:
You will not take any action in connection with the Content that
violates any law, regulation or statute in an applicable jurisdiction, and you will not take any
action in connection with the Content that violates or infringes the intellectual property or other
rights of any person or entity, including, without limitation, the moral rights of the creator of the
Content and the rights of any person who, or any person whose property, appears in the
Content.

Don’t let your singers be seen changing the words to a song.


Quote:
you will be
provided with a Licensee Identification Sticker that contains a serial number associated with the
Original Media. If you shift the Content to a Non-Original Medium, you must apply this sticker to
the exterior of the Non-Original Medium in such a manner as to make it easily visible when the
Non-Original Medium is in ordinary use.


Check your sticker everyday to make sure it hasn’t fallen off or can’t be seen.

Quote:
This covenant does not apply (1) if you are in breach of this Agreement; or (2) if you or any entity under
your control or under common control with you (whether direct or indirect) is a defendant in a currently
pending lawsuit in which we or a related company is a plaintiff,


Don’t associate in any way with anyone who might get sued by anyone.

Quote:
You have been granted a limited, non-exclusive royalty-free
license to use the Marks. Your use of the Marks shall be confined to (a) the display of the Marks in
connection with your providing live karaoke entertainment services to third parties, only as part of the
display of the synchronized graphical portion of the Content, and (b) the truthful identification of
karaoke tracks as being SOUND CHOICE® tracks in an accompanying song listing, whether in printed
or electronic format. You agree that you will not modify the manner in which the Marks are
electronically displayed as part of your live karaoke entertainment services; that you will not apply the
Marks to any track to which it has not already been applied or to the listing of any track that did not
originate with US; that you will not disparage, mutilate, or otherwise modify the Marks in any public
place; that you will not use the Marks in any advertising except as part of song listings; that you will not
undertake any action that brings the Marks or US into disrepute
;

Especially, don’t use their marks in a forum signature without special written permission that you can produce in North Carolina.

There are many ways to be in breach of this contract. All it takes is a desire to show you are in breach for whatever currently unknown reason.


Yes this all seems very silly, hardly worth thinking about…. unless you see it on youtube.
People are sued and forced into settlements and things they otherwise would not do based on minor technicalities all of the time. Isn’t it worth reading the contracts you sign especially when you are signing one with somebody who makes a living on suits over technicalities?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:15 pm 
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Some of those technicalities could be argued away by a good lawyer... but I really don't get what they would gain by suing a bunch of small karaoke business owners. In my case... let's see.. they could get a house that's underwater, lots of used equipment and some old furniture, two very used vans, a huge Chartbuster library, and what? any income my 60 year old boss could earn for the rest of his life?

I dunno, I wouldn't want any of those things... is that what SC is after? I don't think so.

But I do think that their contract is overkill.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Of course a good lawyer can argue some of that away. But maybe you'd rather avoid all that hassle and expense and just settle out of court?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:23 pm 
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earthling12357 wrote:
Of course a good lawyer can argue some of that away. But maybe you'd rather avoid all that hassle and expense and just settle out of court?

Personally, I wouldn't settle if I had nothing to hide. And settle how?? Money?? They'd be hard pressed to get money here.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:24 pm 
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Lisah wrote:
earthling12357 wrote:
Of course a good lawyer can argue some of that away. But maybe you'd rather avoid all that hassle and expense and just settle out of court?

Personally, I wouldn't settle if I had nothing to hide. And settle how?? Money?? They'd be hard pressed to get money here.

Your first born will do, nicely.

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Last edited by Smoothedge69 on Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Oh... THAT I COULD PROVIDE!!! lol

They would have less to gain by suing me, than I would have to lose by fighting them. UNLESS I couldn't prove that I had followed the law. And you said yourself, the law is pretty vague.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Well as far as I can tell, lawsuits are filed in the area where a host operates. The Florida ones were in Florida, California in California, etc, etc, etc. I haven't heard of one where the host had to go out of state.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:34 pm 
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timberlea wrote:
Well as far as I can tell, lawsuits are filed in the area where a host operates. The Florida ones were in Florida, California in California, etc, etc, etc. I haven't heard of one where the host had to go out of state.


This is, however, a whole different animal. It would be governed by the rules of the contract you signed, rather than the rules of diversity in Federal Court. If you agree to change venue, then they can change the venue. Sure makes it more convenient for them.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:38 pm 
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Bird, that's why I asked Harrington that question.. I'll save his response and point it out to SoundChoice when I talk to them. If they ever do want to come after me for whatever reason.. they should have to come here after me! :)

I think I'll call my boss and get him to fax the signed papers over to me. I was supposed to call SC two days ago. I'm tired of reading the paranoid stuff here... I've got a fairly small library of SC, but I will get more if they go back to producing. $125 isn't going to kill me and the certification should help me. It's time I got this show on the road!! Time is money! (any other pep talk I can give myself??? lol)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:00 pm 
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They pay cash?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 pm 
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....I think I'm gonna avoid the Paranoid Situation myself by going to Vegas....gonna try to sell my disc to Pawn Stars. Can't wait to hear what Rick might offer me. Maybe I can catch Chumley first.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:12 pm 
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Take yer portable karaoke machine....bet you could get Chumlie to sing for ya!!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:22 pm 
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....Wish that's all I had was a portable....way too much money in it....Way too much!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Why do I get the feeling that Harrington is beating himself about the head to try to figure out how to get out of this predicament. I don't think he had read the latest version of the CNS. OOOOPS.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Somehow I don't think so... if I sign something that says different, it's binding no matter what Harrington said. Written contract outweighs verbal contract.
Signed agreement hasn't been sent in yet.. so I'm going to try to have that part taken out beforehand. Small loophole that I don't care for :)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:54 pm 
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Wow!

There I am busy at work.... and this happens.....

Well, I can safely say; "The kitchen got real hot and for once, I didn't have anything to do with it.... "

or better yet, perhaps a quote from a movie star:

"I feel a disturbance in the force!" -- Obiwan Kenobi


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:57 pm 
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I just see paranoia.

It reminds me of people believing that a cell phone in use would blow up or cause a fuel pump at a gas station to catch on fire, even though there is absolutely no evidence or incidents of this. This paranoia was so prevelent that the gas companies found it cheaper and easier to put on "no cell" stickers on the pumps than trying to educate "the public"

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Last edited by timberlea on Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:00 pm 
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Lisah wrote:
Somehow I don't think so... if I sign something that says different, it's binding no matter what Harrington said. Written contract outweighs verbal contract.
Signed agreement hasn't been sent in yet.. so I'm going to try to have that part taken out beforehand. Small loophole that I don't care for :)

Where I you, I would insist on taking that little tidbit out. California is a much more Liberal state than NC. You have a better chance, if there is some sort of mistake against you.

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