Karaoke Forums

Jim I wouldn't worry to much, when the first Advance disc comes out, either Mr. Staley or myself will be eating crow. Personally, I don't think it will be me but we shall see.

-James

DING! ROUND 2!
Higher resolution audio encoding. But, hey. Nice try!


Bravo! He deflects!
Oh, silly me. I just figured, that the "WORLD" of piracy meant, you know. THE WORLD. As in everything. I didnt have my "Chip to English" dictionary nearby or I would have realized that "THE WORLD OF PIRACY" means everything except the technology part.


My "agenda" eh. You mean the one about proving you wrong FIVE YEARS running now?


Notice Ladies & Gentlemen, that he did not answer the question! He only doubles down on his initial claim. This is a prime example of Staley avoidance and misdirection. Pinned in a corner with a tough question? Change the subject or just repeat your debunked claim again in the hopes nobody will notice. And remember, I am the one with the reading comprehension problem.


Pay attention Ladies & Gentleman. When thrown a curve, pick a spot where you cant be hit! Choose a position that cannot be proven and stick by it with all your might! But again, I take you back to Movies, TV Shows, even Audio files. Why is is that ALL of these pirated goods are ripped and posted in dozens of different formats if they "Only wanted the song" and could care less about quality? BECAUSE THEY DO CARE. Thieves always go for the best goods. The implication that somehow Karaoke Thieves are simpletons who cant tell the difference and don't care is absolutely comical.

Also notice Ladies and Gentleman that Chip has a new "trigger word" in his vast vocabulary! He now refers to the GEM set as "Oldies"! He uses words such as "Lease", "Oldies", "Wrongfully Produced", "Agenda", etc, in the hopes of sparking a de-rail in the conversation from his adversary. Then he doesnt have to answer the tough questions! This is a classic Staley tactic.


FIVE YEARS and not a single pirated GEM song. Not a single one! Yes. I am the dumb one here.


2010 - They will be instantly pirated!
2015 - They aren't pirated because nobody wants them!
2016 - ???

What will he say when the NEW Advance songs aren't pirated? $20 he says its because "Nobody wants them".

You see Ladies & Gentlemen, Chip would like nothing more than the GEM set to be pirated. He would be the first to ring the bell and shout it from the rooftops! It really pains him that it hasn't happened due to the ground breaking anti-piracy measures of the GEM set. Of course YOU see through the silliness and know what's happening here. It's common knowledge that they haven't been pirated because the licensees know they would get NAILED TO THE WALL if they did. SO they protect them and abide by the rules, resulting in....ZERO piracy.

Mr. Staley doesnt ever answer the one nagging question in his argument either: Why hasn't anyone tried and put them online? He sticks to his claim that it's because "they are already out there", but remember my friends the ones that are "out there" are very low bit rate audio and full of video glitches. The GEM version of these songs are a HIGH QUALITY version with pristine graphics. Yeah. Nobody wants THAT!

Here is a test you can try at home! Go to the big Pirate search engine right now. You know, the one by the bay. Search for a recent movie release and see which one has the highest activity. I guarantee it will be the one with the highest quality. More proof....

It seems like every time I post something that proves that inconsistent information is being posted by you (as a rep for SC), you turn around and baselessly accuse me of things I've never done. It's interesting that I'm the one that always posts the proof and you don't. That's because you can't offer proof of something that never happened.

Bazza, movies are more visual than audio, and it is listened to in the quiet of your home. So higher quality would be very noticeable and desireable. 128 vs. 320 bit rate in a loud bar would be barely noticeable, if at all...... unless you are Joe C.

BTW how much time do you spend in these torrents sites? You seem to have a whole lot of knowledge about their content. This is not your first mention of your vast knowledge of how it works and what they contain. Do you own any music other than the Gems? We know you have no use for plastic media so you couldn't possible have any of them.

So a photo of your music collection would consist of 200 GEM discs and some download receipts. Would you care to share your song book with us Mr. squeaky clean? I know SC doesn't care about other manu's stuff, but a pirate is a pirate if they don't own their music.

I don't recall any display of your legitimacy other than your GEM license. You have shown no photos, books, rig ....... simply nothing. You accuse all non-Gem owners and SC critics as being pirates as though you are on a high horse. Saying it is so, does not make it so.

Leave it to you to take a paragraph -- obviously talking about video and make an idiotic statement about audio... what a weasel. Pay attention and stick to the subject at hand! I realize that when you have no where to go, you like to point to something else and claim it's somehow related.


I think "silly" is far too generous.... but words like "childish" pop up. Leave it to you to read "world of piracy" and change it to "technology of piracy" and latch onto that. If you look up "Bazza" in the "Chip -To- English Dictionary" you'll find it smack dab between "baby" and "bullsh1t." Your favorite two languages.



Was there a question? Because there's nothing there deserving of a response. You talk "resolution" and when I confine that to "video resolution" (the more common term) and point out how ignorant you are about karaoke graphics, you whine "but, but, I meant AUDIO!"..... What a putz!

The point is: The gems haven't been pirated because nobody needs them.... every single song is already out there. But you want to insist that the reason is their superb security and ironclad contracts? You want to insist that "everyone wants them because of the quality!" Bullsh1t. Period.


Bullsh1t again. You thinking other people care about your "quality" is once again - just you spouting off what would LIKE to happen.... but you can't prove it can you?


Okay, fine... how old is the "newest" song in the collection? Conveniently, that also happens to be FIVE YEARS....

(1) That's an "oldie" in this business...
(2) You don't own the discs... it's a lease. Part of what EMI sued about... if you were paying attention, but you weren't so you don't know.
(3) Yes, they were "wrongfully produced" and if they weren't, there wouldn't have been any increase in the "royalty cost" -- as explained by PEP's own customer service.
(4) "Agenda" is correct. You'll put words in my mouth, ignore subjects and even insert what fits "your agenda" (as evidenced above).


Don't be so hard on yourself, now you know how Edsel buyers feel.


See? This is a perfect example of you changing the parameters to fit your agenda. Because now you're talking about (possibly) new songs no one has. And I'll bet that they will be pirated - minus the trademark and with a change of font. But more likely, one of the offshore manufacturers will just make them sell them, cheaper and to everyone.


You can repeat your drivel all you want, it won't change the fact that no one WANTS THEM.. Drunk people don't care about "bitrate" and they can live just fine with some video glitches.

[/quote]
Of "VIDEO quality" nothing else. You're inappropriately comparing karaoke to a movie - 2 different products with 2 different audiences.

Welcome back Ladies & Gentlemen!

I'll edit this and just leave you with all the good parts. OK?



PLEASE! KEEP GOING!

Really? 128 vs 320? Are you saying that with a straight face? Or do you have no idea what you are talking about?


Chip already tried the "guilt by knowledge" tactic, but nice try! I keep up with technlogy, ALL technology. It's the field I work in. Sorry you are clueless about it.


It's no secret, in fact I've talked about it here a number of times! I have plenty of other songs. Why don't you do a little searching? You do know how THAT technology works, right?


So this is YOUR tactic now? We are talking about why the GEM set has not been pirated you wish to de-rail by attacking my character?

Excellent! Join the hate club! You can sit at the Staley table.

No response huh? Just excerpts? Figures. But, you left out my favorite one:

Couldn't agree with you more.

Stay on topic, without personal attacks please..

Last request..

I think one very good possibility that you might not have taken into account is that other manufacturers (offshore in particular) are already in production. It's a simple matter to make whatever songs PEP gets produced and make them themselves for sale on the open market.

The general public (i.e. all "ineligible" KJ's) will be able to have them as well. And there are lots more ineligible KJ's than the small number of gem owners and certified KJ's. This would make the sales for them very quick and profitable.

Consequently, there would be less of a need or desire to pirate anything from PEP. Why would you need to if the same songs are available pretty quickly through channels that pose no risk?

This would then give PEP false bragging rights that it's "the security and contracts" that keep them from being pirated when in fact, it's simply because there is no desire when a KJ can get them from other sources with the same or better quality, instantly and for a reasonable price.

No, really...

Can someone please tell my why the GEMs have not been pirated?

Not even once?

They have held their value as a collection. I heard the price went up.

Not one dire warning of drastic consequences has been substantiated.

Zero reports of interference from SC or PEP.

5 years have passed.

I think it works. I think it's working.

I'm willing to participate. I willing to move forward with this to see where it goes.

If you are ineligible or unwilling, then I can't really see how it impacts you one way or the other.

Acid test? Maybe. Will others convert to this method if it is successful?

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Never the same show twice!

Useless.... simply useless...

Name one (1) track on the Gem series that is not available anywhere else.

Just one.

Really.

I HAVE taken that into consideration. There are songs that I have been requesting to be published for TEN YEARS and not a single producer has released them. Several people have told me they have requested "I'm a stranger here" by the five man electrical band. If soundchoice is able to get the licensing I am hopeful that will be one of the first songs. But even if not, If just ONE of these songs that I have requested gets produced, the likelyhood that it will get realeased just because someone else does is very low in my opinion. Remember PEP is charging a premium for these tracks, so they are taking their customer song requests VERY seriously. All PEP has to do is sell 320 reservations to get a disc produced/

In order for a different company to turn a profit, they would have to sell THOUSANDS of copies. No one is going to risk the capital it takes on a song that by comparison not enough of the karaoke population wants. The most likely place would be karaoke version, but think of the number of requests they must get every single day? Do you have any idea what it takes to push a song into the top ten spots?

Let me give you an example. When karaoke first started doing business, I put in a request for "Cotton Fields" by the beach boys. They just realeased it approximately a month and a bit ago. That's a damn long time to wait for one silly song.

I really wish I could afford to place money on this one, I absolutely NEVER gamble, but if I did this would be the one I'd put my money on. But I will tell you what, winner pays for the popcorn

All it's going to take to prove my point is one song, we shall see if I am vindicated or not.

cheers

-James

ok, i figured using karaoke would be a better way to judge it as since they are ripping the discs in to begin with, they will rip to their preferred quality level just like they do with the videos but this way it stays in the karaoke realm and therefore relevant.
the top sharing karaoke on the top pirate site (i went down the first page for the ones that has seeds)....192k
the most RECENTLY uploaded collections (i went down the first page and checked them all) 192k
every one of those was ripped to the preferred bitrate of the pirates who share these files.
do they care about 320k? no, or they would have ripped them to that bitrate to begin with.

false

of what?


and just to play along....the top shared movie right now is "straight outta compton"
the top shared seed is at 720P with 5124 seeders
the highest quality is at 4K (4x 1080P resolution, the best on the market) and it has 1 seeder.

false again

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Okay, you've picked a pretty obscure song... I can understand why it wasn't made: not enough demand for it. In the karaoke market, what gets produced is usually a matter of what's currently popular, from a number of different genres.

Look at history: Most producers used to put a few "usable songs" on a disc and use filler for the rest. (many times some kind of ancient country song). As discs started to become less and less popular, the producers concentrate on the most popular newest/most requested songs because now that they're not selling discs, but selling individual songs, they are making more sales, but at far fewer dollar amounts. Selling "thousands" is now more important than ever.


I'll bet if you offered to front the money to produce that song 10 years ago, it would have been made because then there would be no risk for the company -- you'd be picking up the production costs. And the same is true with the PEP deal: They won't produce a song until it's financed first. So they hold out the tin cup and once that is done, do you really think they care how many they sell? Everything after the production costs are profit... and you'd be paying that up front.

It wouldn't matter how many oddball songs they produce because they would already have the production costs paid for from their small group of customers. They don't have to sell thousands because they wouldn't be losing money anyway.



Not exactly. Anyone can produce a song with your money in advance. They'll be producing all the odd songs that have never been made before for a very small number of customers that front the production -- a collection that will be sung very little to almost none by the general public. And songs that have very little appeal to the rest of the karaoke market because if it is that popular, other producers (offshore) will already be on it.

correct, but if you look on the PEP site there are 377 people eligible for this right now. what are the odds of getting 85% to buy sight unseen discs?


correct again, the difference here is that every other company is selling to ALL KJ's, not just a select few. whereas PEP has only 377 customers to sell to, Zoom for instance has hundreds of thousands around the world. selling a grab bag lump of content that the customer does not get to see before buying it blindly for $3.75 per track to 320 of 277 (85%) people is a nightmare business scenario. selling ala carte copies of songs to customers who see and hear it before committing to buy it at $1.60 per track to 5,000 of 50,000 (10%) is much easier.



perhaps PEP will make a nice little niche for themselves selling copies of obscure songs that no one else will make to a small demographic. it happens in business all the time. but for instance, "Cotton Fields"...how many of the eligible KJ's would buy that song? 320? it is obscure enough that i doubt it.


if it took that long, there was not enough demand by KJ's to make it. like you said above, no one is going to risk capital for something a tiny part of the population wants. it's not a bad song, it is just business.


let me ask this. you wont know the songs until you pay and are told what will be produced. if there is only 8 tracks (there are not enough eligible parties to make more than 9 tracks) and pay $3.75 per track for songs that you have never been asked for by any of your singers? if SC put out a disc of only classic punk and your singers don't do punk,. would you pay $30.00 for the songs you will never use?
it's the same thing, except you don't even get to know that they are songs you will never use. now, they might be songs you will use, but same likelihood that they will not be.


i don't think they will be pirated either, in their original form. the measures they are taking on this seem to be a great idea and i think they finally found a winner. will the music get taken and new graphics made?...probably. if there is no way for them to get the songs otherwise, it will end up happening...always does.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

There are many more than 377 eligible buyers. Not everyone who's eligible is listed on the certified list (notably, HELP licensees are not), and many of those who are run multiple rigs.

How many is it once you eliminate the purchases that were "required by settlement?"

I'm confused. Is Sound Choice not going to sell to the public at all now, just to certified KJs? Will the song choices for KJs be by vote (request) or will Sound Choice just pick current popular songs and make them and you get whatever they create? If they are going to do just current popular songs, other manufacturers would be doing those already, so I don't see where the advantage would be to pay more money for a similar product.