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c. staley
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:55 am |
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Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2002 7:26 am Posts: 4839 Location: In your head rent-free Been Liked: 582 times
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Okay, let's review this ONE MORE TIME for those that don't get it: KV terms wrote: Use for public events
We are happy to allow the use of our soundtracks for public audiences and other performances.
However, we'd like to remind you that in order to be legally compliant, you must receive an official agreement from your national music rights management office (PRS For Music in the UK for example). See that? In the United States, that means that your venue should be paying our "national music rights management" organizations: ASCAP, BMI or SESAC They are the ones that license the stuff for commercial use.. with the commercial venues. End of Story. How many gazillion times does this have to be repeated?
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Smoothedge69
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:00 am |
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:55 am Posts: 3885 Images: 0 Been Liked: 397 times
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JimHarrington wrote: For the record, I never said that Stingray "will sue" for violating their TOS. I said that if we saw a KC track in a commercial show, we would probably report it to Stingray, or we might take action depending on the circumstances.
What would be those circumstances, and how can you take action on Stingray's behalf?? And please, for once, don't just ignore me, Jim.
_________________ I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE
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karaokeniagarafalls
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:02 am |
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:39 am Posts: 1735 Images: 12 Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario Canada Been Liked: 190 times
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frede wrote: karaokeniagarafalls wrote: frede wrote: When I started I didn’t have a lot of songs so I went with CompuHost and KJmedia Pro. Same songs as the Karaoke Cloud but you buy them as you use them. I also set up an account with Tricerasoft and karaoke version and download songs on the fly. $200 dollars in credits and you're go-to-go for a while and singers love that you found their song. With the money you save plan on buying a GEM set, Black Friday is coming. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but have you noticed: 1) karaoke-version is only licensed for personal use only 2) KJ Media Pro you're right same stuff as digitrax so your limited to only B-side music I want to request "Big & Rich - Save a horse ride a Cowboy, but sadly not available under digitrax 3) Tricerasoft, I purchase gift packs from them to bring songs down to $1.45/song but have you seen the broad list of their offerings consist of SF, Zoom, Mr. Entertainer. gonna be very limited soon i think. SBI has a good version of "Big & Rich - Save a horse ride a Cowboy" on Tricerasoft. I typically only buy KJ Media Pro selections if the song (or internet) is not available somewhere else. I wanted a karaoke program that uses Tricerasoft like KJams does and CompuHost was the closest. I saved my pennies for the GEM set. Maybe i'm mistaken but I think the Gem set is not a purchased and owned product similar to the Chatrtbusters 12,000 song collection where you dish out approx 3k-5k and never own the product. as far as I know anyone who owns the Chartbusters collection, they are all expired licenses. looking for the source now...
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karaokeniagarafalls
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:15 am |
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:39 am Posts: 1735 Images: 12 Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario Canada Been Liked: 190 times
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c. staley wrote: Okay, let's review this ONE MORE TIME for those that don't get it: KV terms wrote: Use for public events
We are happy to allow the use of our soundtracks for public audiences and other performances.
However, we'd like to remind you that in order to be legally compliant, you must receive an official agreement from your national music rights management office (PRS For Music in the UK for example). See that? In the United States, that means that your venue should be paying our "national music rights management" organizations: ASCAP, BMI or SESAC They are the ones that license the stuff for commercial use.. with the commercial venues. End of Story. How many gazillion times does this have to be repeated?Most sites say that because none of them "Own" the music. Go here for a better deal: http://www.all-star-karaoke.com/our-services/licensing/c. staley, you getting miss-informed. Contact them and ask them in these words "Can I use your tracks at my events? I am a Licensed Mobile DJ/KJ Company" and see what they say. DO NOT use the word Commercial because that is a very big word and they need a more defined understanding of what you mean by "Commercial"
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jclaydon
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:36 am |
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Super Duper Poster |
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Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:16 pm Posts: 2027 Location: HIgh River, AB Been Liked: 268 times
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karaokeniagarafalls wrote: Paradigm Karaoke wrote: one of my issues with subscription services is that songs disappear. it happened with Karaoke Cloud and suddenly you no longer have a song you had last week. with so many buy it own it choices, i don't feel subscription services are good for pro shows with the uncertainty. what Alan suggested is a good way, SBI has starter packs with great song selections, Zoom 100 mp3+g discs are a great deal at abourt $0.25 per track, so there are more stable and secure ways to get going. don't you already have a library? If you read the terms and services for Zoom hits, they state those are only offered for use in their territory. I also see a relationship going on between Zoom, Sunfly, Mr. Entertainer as being all of the same entity. The music is all similar other than their own branding. I see your views about wasting money on rentals but I also see it as like "Leasing my brand new 2015 Honda Civic" I will never own it, But I also don't have to deal with the headaches for only $8.00 per day. shelling out another $5/day for karaoke may not break the bank but at least I can approach new clubs in confidence. Just my view though... wink the zoom mp3+g DISCS are perfectly legal to purchase second hand from the UK all you need is someone who lives in the uk to buy them for you, and it's perfectly legal under the first sale doctrine to import them into the US or Canada. As for karaoke version, they are perfectly fine with commercial use for their rights, all their disclaimer means is that the venue has to pay the PRO fees, which is not your resonsibility. Now if your talking about their streaming service for karaofun I do believe they also have a pro version, but i have no clue how much it is, or if it would be legal to use in North America *somehow i don't think so* It will be extremely interesting to see what happens to Tricerasoft if they are forced to take down the SBI catalog tho. -James
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JimHarrington
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:43 am |
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Extreme Poster |
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:59 am Posts: 3011 Been Liked: 1003 times
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Smoothedge69 wrote: JimHarrington wrote: For the record, I never said that Stingray "will sue" for violating their TOS. I said that if we saw a KC track in a commercial show, we would probably report it to Stingray, or we might take action depending on the circumstances.
What would be those circumstances, and how can you take action on Stingray's behalf?? And please, for once, don't just ignore me, Jim. Good grief. I don't "just ignore" you; the problem is that most of the time, what you post in relation to SC is a rude personal attack on us and our company, which I will ignore all day. I did not say we would act on behalf of Stingray. I'm not sure it would even be legally possible to do so. I cannot possibly enumerate all of the circumstances under which we would act, but you have to remember that KC tracks carry our trade dress (ex the SC logos) which they use by permission. Private uses don't constitute a trade dress infringement, but commercial use of tracks in a way that violates the KC license agreement would be a trade dress infringement, and if we saw that happen in the marketplace, we would likely consider taking action against the infringer. Now, personally, I have never, not once, seen a KC track in commercial use, despite having attended hundreds of karaoke shows across the country over the last 6+ years. I *have* seen investigative reports that indicated their presence, but it was not necessary to use that focus for the lawsuit because there was much more use of SC tracks.
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timberlea
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:08 am |
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Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:41 pm Posts: 4094 Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada Been Liked: 309 times
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karaokeniagarafalls, I contacted Re-sound, AVLA, and CMRRA, and none of those entities are allowed to licence karaoke tracks for copying due to the Synchronization laws. They all said the same thing, you have to get permission from the copyright holders.
_________________ You can be strange but not a stranger
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:29 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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karaokeniagarafalls wrote: Quote: Where are you located. No matter how I type it, I get their website, on the subscribe screen. Maybe you typed something wrong. The site karaoke.net is live and working, yes but the page is setup right now to accept email notifications. I used to do this when I wanted my domain name to gain fast popularity and also to collect emails. back in the day, there were many companies that would purchase email lists. if in fact this is what their plans are, I would suggest a more profitable alternative. here is a good example: 1) let's say karaoke.net offers an affilliate program 2) I can simply buy up all the related domain names such as Karaoke.org, .ca, .co.uk ETC. and domain forward all of them to karaoke.net using my affiliate link. Who's to say what karaoke.net will be planning in future for their 1 year domain name? i just don't see that future as being bright as you see it. If you've not talked with Michael from KSF/karaoke.net, I suggest you do. You'd know that they are in it for the long haul. They run Customburn.com in the UK (restricted US access) for YEARS and have acquired all necessary licensing to offer full downloads of their libraries (Party Tyme, Pocket Songs & Tropical Zone) for full kj use in the US on download, custom disc AND streaming options. Their site is live now for registration and will go active Nov 15th if all goes well. KSF Entertainment has been around A LONG TIME they are also run the KWC (Karaoke World Contest) each year since 2003. Their US offices opened last year for this new karaoke.net venture. So with the 3 brands they are offering will yield approximately 20,000+ karaoke tracks available for the KJ to use here in the US (yes PRO fees from the bars still need to be paid). They are actively taking song requests and have actually made several that were requested from this forum alone that will be available upon their launch! https://www.facebook.com/karaokenetonline/
_________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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SINGA USA
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:11 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:05 am Posts: 241 Been Liked: 197 times
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The site www.karaoke.net is up and only taking email submissions as others have pointed out. The web site registration shows the auto-renewal date every January and has done so for several years going back to 1999. Those wishing to submit an email now will get a sneak peek access to it before it is live to the general public.
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POETS
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:05 pm |
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Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:34 am Posts: 121 Location: Upper Peninsula Been Liked: 21 times
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Quote: They run Customburn.com in the UK (restricted US access) for YEARS and have acquired all necessary licensing to offer full downloads of their libraries (Party Tyme, Pocket Songs & Tropical Zone) for full kj use in the US on download, custom disc AND streaming options. (...) So with the 3 brands they are offering will yield approximately 20,000+ karaoke tracks available for the KJ to use here in the US... I've never heard of Tropical Zone, and I haven't purchased a Party Tyme or Pocket Songs disc in about a decade. I remember them being very poor quality. Have they gotten better? I have been very pleased with SBI and find their instrumentation comparable with the quality we used to get from Sound Choice. I get my music almost exclusively from karaoke-downloads.ca with karaoke-version as a back up.
_________________ ~Cindy Karaoke. Because it's a lot cheaper than therapy.
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karaokeniagarafalls
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:10 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:39 am Posts: 1735 Images: 12 Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario Canada Been Liked: 190 times
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jclaydon wrote: karaokeniagarafalls wrote: Paradigm Karaoke wrote: one of my issues with subscription services is that songs disappear. it happened with Karaoke Cloud and suddenly you no longer have a song you had last week. with so many buy it own it choices, i don't feel subscription services are good for pro shows with the uncertainty. what Alan suggested is a good way, SBI has starter packs with great song selections, Zoom 100 mp3+g discs are a great deal at abourt $0.25 per track, so there are more stable and secure ways to get going. don't you already have a library? If you read the terms and services for Zoom hits, they state those are only offered for use in their territory. I also see a relationship going on between Zoom, Sunfly, Mr. Entertainer as being all of the same entity. The music is all similar other than their own branding. I see your views about wasting money on rentals but I also see it as like "Leasing my brand new 2015 Honda Civic" I will never own it, But I also don't have to deal with the headaches for only $8.00 per day. shelling out another $5/day for karaoke may not break the bank but at least I can approach new clubs in confidence. Just my view though... wink the zoom mp3+g DISCS are perfectly legal to purchase second hand from the UK all you need is someone who lives in the uk to buy them for you, and it's perfectly legal under the first sale doctrine to import them into the US or Canada. As for karaoke version, they are perfectly fine with commercial use for their rights, all their disclaimer means is that the venue has to pay the PRO fees, which is not your resonsibility. Now if your talking about their streaming service for karaofun I do believe they also have a pro version, but i have no clue how much it is, or if it would be legal to use in North America *somehow i don't think so* It will be extremely interesting to see what happens to Tricerasoft if they are forced to take down the SBI catalog tho. -James the pro subscription is 129 usd or 149 cad for 21000 unique songs that includes all software installs on many platforms. I've decided on going that way.
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:13 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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POETSkaraoke wrote: I've never heard of Tropical Zone, and I haven't purchased a Party Tyme or Pocket Songs disc in about a decade. I remember them being very poor quality. Have they gotten better? Tropical Zone is a Spanish/Latino source. Pocket Songs were never bad as a rule & Party Tyme was as good as any other with of course hits & misses like any other brand. Their new rock stuff that they just did sound great. All requests from this forum too. Here are sample clips of those requests https://www.facebook.com/karaokenetonli ... =2&theaterhttps://www.facebook.com/karaokenetonli ... =2&theater
_________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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karaokeniagarafalls
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:15 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:39 am Posts: 1735 Images: 12 Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario Canada Been Liked: 190 times
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timberlea wrote: karaokeniagarafalls, I contacted Re-sound, AVLA, and CMRRA, and none of those entities are allowed to licence karaoke tracks for copying due to the Synchronization laws. They all said the same thing, you have to get permission from the copyright holders. what you typed just above in the quote I have mentioned that earlier in another post. it is up to the manufacturers of the karaoke music to determine how they want there products used. Re-sound just collects royalty fees from us as KJ's under the karaoke area.
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Smoothedge69
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:55 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:55 am Posts: 3885 Images: 0 Been Liked: 397 times
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JimHarrington wrote: Smoothedge69 wrote: JimHarrington wrote: For the record, I never said that Stingray "will sue" for violating their TOS. I said that if we saw a KC track in a commercial show, we would probably report it to Stingray, or we might take action depending on the circumstances.
What would be those circumstances, and how can you take action on Stingray's behalf?? And please, for once, don't just ignore me, Jim. Good grief. I don't "just ignore" you; the problem is that most of the time, what you post in relation to SC is a rude personal attack on us and our company, which I will ignore all day. I did not say we would act on behalf of Stingray. I'm not sure it would even be legally possible to do so. I cannot possibly enumerate all of the circumstances under which we would act, but you have to remember that KC tracks carry our trade dress (ex the SC logos) which they use by permission. Private uses don't constitute a trade dress infringement, but commercial use of tracks in a way that violates the KC license agreement would be a trade dress infringement, and if we saw that happen in the marketplace, we would likely consider taking action against the infringer. Now, personally, I have never, not once, seen a KC track in commercial use, despite having attended hundreds of karaoke shows across the country over the last 6+ years. I *have* seen investigative reports that indicated their presence, but it was not necessary to use that focus for the lawsuit because there was much more use of SC tracks. The trade dress isn't yours anymore, though. It now belongs to KC. How can you sue over it's use? That makes no sense.
_________________ I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE
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timberlea
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:25 pm |
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Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:41 pm Posts: 4094 Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada Been Liked: 309 times
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Re-Sound, etc have nothing to do with karaoke and do not licence it so they cannot collect any fees.
_________________ You can be strange but not a stranger
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frede
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:00 am |
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:37 am Posts: 304 Location: Washington D.C. Been Liked: 31 times
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karaokeniagarafalls wrote: Maybe i'm mistaken but I think the Gem set is not a purchased and owned product similar to the Chatrtbusters 12,000 song collection where you dish out approx 3k-5k and never own the product.
as far as I know anyone who owns the Chartbusters collection, they are all expired licenses.
looking for the source now... Give PEP.rock a call and find out from the real "source." They are not the evil guys some make them out to be. Now that they own Chartbuster I'm hoping I can get certified. I only own 50 original Sound Choice disc, but I have 2,467 Chartbuster songs collected from KJMediaProHD, CAVS, USB and disc.
_________________ Karaoke that just sounds better!
CompuHost | KJ Media Pro | Karaoke Kiosk | Bose L1 Model II system | B2 bass | ToneMatch audio engine | Shure VHF SM58 wireless mics | Countryman E6 Earset with Shure UHF wireless beltpack
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JimHarrington
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:09 am |
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Extreme Poster |
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:59 am Posts: 3011 Been Liked: 1003 times
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c. staley wrote: Okay, let's review this ONE MORE TIME for those that don't get it: KV terms wrote: Use for public events
We are happy to allow the use of our soundtracks for public audiences and other performances.
However, we'd like to remind you that in order to be legally compliant, you must receive an official agreement from your national music rights management office (PRS For Music in the UK for example). See that? In the United States, that means that your venue should be paying our "national music rights management" organizations: ASCAP, BMI or SESAC They are the ones that license the stuff for commercial use.. with the commercial venues. End of Story. How many gazillion times does this have to be repeated?This is true for straight music tracks (sound recordings). It is not true for audiovisual works, which include sound recordings plus a video component, no matter how many gazillion times you repeat it.
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JimHarrington
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:14 am |
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Extreme Poster |
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:59 am Posts: 3011 Been Liked: 1003 times
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Smoothedge69 wrote: The trade dress isn't yours anymore, though. It now belongs to KC. How can you sue over it's use? That makes no sense. No, we still own the trade dress (the logos, the layouts, and the particular methods of cueing the singer, among other elements).
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JimHarrington
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:26 am |
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Extreme Poster |
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:59 am Posts: 3011 Been Liked: 1003 times
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frede wrote: karaokeniagarafalls wrote: Maybe i'm mistaken but I think the Gem set is not a purchased and owned product similar to the Chatrtbusters 12,000 song collection where you dish out approx 3k-5k and never own the product.
as far as I know anyone who owns the Chartbusters collection, they are all expired licenses.
looking for the source now... Give PEP.rock a call and find out from the real "source." They are not the evil guys some make them out to be. Now that they own Chartbuster I'm hoping I can get certified. I only own 50 original Sound Choice disc, but I have 2,467 Chartbuster songs collected from KJMediaProHD, CAVS, USB and disc. The Sound Choice® GEM series is licensed, not sold. When you purchase a license, you are provided with the right to possess a specific set of discs, together with a set of permissions regarding the use of those discs, for a specific term. The initial term is 5 years, and renewals are 3 years each. However, unlike a lease or rental, as long as you continue to honor the requirements of the contract, you alone have the right to determine whether to renew the term, and the renewal fee is no more than $100 per three years. In other words, we can't take the discs away from you unless you violate the terms of the agreement in some material respect. The first few GEM series contracts entered their second terms this year. To date, I believe we have been waiving the renewal fee, although it is possible we may begin enforcing it. We are working on reviving the CB certification program and will release more information once we have a plan. We will probably release tentative details of the plan before the program actually starts so we can get feedback from customers. EDIT: After reviewing this, I realized that the question I answered was slightly different from the question that was asked about CB. As far as I am aware, all of the publisher licenses used to make CB product are now expired. However, particular discs or other media that were made and first sold in connection with a publisher license continue to be legit even after the licenses expire.
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Smoothedge69
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:18 am |
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:55 am Posts: 3885 Images: 0 Been Liked: 397 times
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JimHarrington wrote: Smoothedge69 wrote: The trade dress isn't yours anymore, though. It now belongs to KC. How can you sue over it's use? That makes no sense. No, we still own the trade dress (the logos, the layouts, and the particular methods of cueing the singer, among other elements). What a shame!! A perfectly good place to BUY Karaoke music, and it has to be under police protection. Definitely a damned shame.
_________________ I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE
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