Karaoke Forums

That's a good starting point We agree on that.



The word for the songs you released is "Public Domain". Aside from your website, I have never seen these for sale anyplace, and when I last looked, found no way to buy these products now. I am sure they didn't sell out, as people can get "Mary Had A Little Lamb" almost anywhere, including Youtube. You would be hard pressed to sue for these, it might cause you more grief then its worth. The only reason why you put out public domain goods is so that you have something to tie you to the label.

Also, lets be honest the odds of you licencing something for Chartbuster line is next to nil. You aren't even producing karaoke under your Sound Choice banner. You mean to tell me your working hard on putting out twice as much stuff that isn't going compete with itself? Sorry, I don't buy it.



I understand WHY you are charging people the money, and you have done your best to give people something for it. But you are indeed charging them. The fact is you are charging for a brand that most people already paid for. Remember, you can only register original CDs and media. There is no HELP licence for pirated CB product. That means only people who are legit users are paying to continue using the product. So this doesn't affect pirates in any way, just legal KJs who might worried about a lawsuit. The "covenant not to sue" is a little fear mongering on your part. Someone with the original media might not lose the suit depending on if they indeed are keeping 1:1 with the CDs, including multiple rigs.



Like I said, considering how the people at CB dumped the product, and shifted it to digital for sale make it harder for you (but not impossible) to file a lawsuit. Sound Choice is easy... if it's on computer it's not suppose to be there without PEP consent, you can file a suit. That's why CB most likely would only work for PEPs if the main brand Sound Choice was the primary goal, and in your audit, discover the CB brand as well. Someone playing only Chartbuster branded goods at a show is not a guaranteed win for PEP.

And I agree that while pirates will steal everything. As long as they aren't using SC (which btw is fine with you guys) they may avoid a lawsuit simply because it might not be fruitful on your end to sue them. It cost thousands for a lawsuit that needs to be recovered on top of the punitive damages. You could take a shot, but if they pull out the hard drive it's thousands of dollars and hours of work wasted.



Which is almost exactly what PEP is doing. PEP the patentee threatens to sue if they catch someone using PEP product. The cost of the lawsuit far outweighs whatever your other options are, depending on what you do or don't own. You aren't wrong to do this with Sound Choice Products.

As for Chartbuster, it's a totally different animal. PEP bought the trademark rights to a dead company they considered the #1 competitor in the karaoke business so it does not fall into freeware status. It's right on your website. The only reason for PEP to buy the rights is because PEP can't complete with Chartbuster as freeware. Even now, you can buy the 2700 CAVS songs for much less then the GEM series. Doing this keeps CB from falling into freeware, and you staying competitive with your initial product.




With SC, this is an 100% acceptable answer, you have indeed put in the sweat equity behind the brand. With CB, while you have the brand, the rest isn't yours, you just bought the trademark. But you did buy the IP, and you are trying to make money. I am sure if every professional KJ registered their product, their would be a profit. We both know that isn't going to happen of course, but if that doesn't work, you can fall back on lawsuits. While you might have a better case with SC, suing over just CB... especially if you lose a few, might hurt more then help.

Again, I have zero beef with PEP going after pirates who use SC products. But the CB trademark makes a hard case for many of us about your intents on how you plan to use it. Like you said, "Nobody likes getting sued"Time will tell what happens here.

You have zero Jim until the court upholds your claim. The 9th district Federal Court has not been upholding your claims the only victories you have had is where the host has been foolish enough to pay your ransom money., and settle.

Can we get a Moderator in here to change the title of this topic thread? How about "Let's talk more about PEP again (and again and again and again...)."

As if you didn't know this thread would get corrupted......

_________________
-Chris

Because you have no sales records and the product was distributed in a digital format through SD cards and undocumented hard drive sales of which you've confirmed you have none. It is not that same situation where SC tracks were sold only on disc (with the exception of their "doPi" product). Tell me how an investigator, seeing boatloads of CB tracks being played off a computer is going to build a piracy case on that... There are LOTS of KJ's that purchased the hard drives during their final "fire sale" before they vanished.
Perhaps I should have specified it as being the filing of the "Statement of Use" declaration but either way, and whether you choose to believe it or not, I did confirm it directly with the Trademark Office last year after you submitted a photo of an Irish disc marked "(c) 2006 Tennessee Production Center" as your product.
So call her yourself if you like:
[Debra Ahmed, OFFICE OF POST REGISTRATION, (571) 272-9122 ]

Yeah, I never do my homework.... or document anything....


Which really means you don't sell squat. Gotcha...

And there's the poop....

_________________
-Chris

However, he has not only verified his statements, but given the name and contact information of who he did it through for anyone else to double check.
it's only poop if it's just pulling something out of his butt, not if it's verified and factual.
this time he backed it up.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

He didn't back anything up. He posted the name and number of the post-registration examiner who processed the section 8 affidavit. If he called her, that was exceptionally stupid, because the information she had available online. The registrations, of which there were three, were assigned in November 2015. Two of them won't expire until 2019. The other one did require a section 8, which we filed within the allotted time, but they weren't "transferred on the last day of the grace period." That was a lie.

I didn't start this topic thread. I didn't start the derailment of it. As the OP, YOU let it get derailed, and didn't do one single thing to attempt to set it right.

Take responsibility for your own rather than deflecting it!!!

C'mon Cue... You know he posted this topic because he knew what would happen to it. Microsoft info? On a Karaoke board? It didn't last 5 seconds.

I was fine with letting it go until he started defending PEP, but conveniently forgot that PEP bought CB to do the trademark troll thing.

Here is the correction you're obviously looking for (after reviewing my notes):

No, the trademark was not "transferred" on the last day of the grace period. The section 8 was received on the last day of the grace period. Because we know that "within the allotted time" includes up to that day.

Happy now?

I am in full agreement with you on that point. The fact that Chris even made this comment...
actually reinforces that notion, because I truly believe he knew this would happen before it even started. Now, as to whether or not that was Chris's intention is a totally different argument.

So... back to my original post.... Since this topic thread has had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Microsoft (except for the OP)... If not, maybe it's time for JD to step in and just lock this thread.

or maybe the people here don't need a "Hall Monitor" to alert the police for every little thing????How about that?

My proof that Chip lied about digital watermarking wasn't pulled out of my butt either. It is 100% irrefutable. But, people seem willing to overlook that bold-faced lie because Chip is the champion of the Anti-SC movement and he aligns with their position.

_________________
-Chris

If you have been paying attention at all, you would know why I post Microsoft information to this forum.

What I expected was for jdmeister to make some some sort of snarky comment and perhaps Chip to make one as well. I generally ignore those, but jd's comment was intentionally designed to turn this into yet another Anti-SC thread. He accomplished his goal. How's that for some impartial moderation?

_________________
-Chris

It's hard to keep a thread in check when a moderator intentionally derails it. I did call him out on it.

_________________
-Chris

OK, let me bite on this....

What does Microsoft defending customers from patent trolls have to do with a karaoke board, other then for it to be troll bait?

Some of us, don't have a long history here, are minor contributors, or don't read the boards everyday like gospel. For the sake of THOSE people, you might have to clarify WHY your posting Microsoft Information on a Karaoke forum.

For the record here is your original post:



Aside from lifting the text in the article... what was your thoughts about it? How does this article relate to a karaoke forum? You post a random article and add nothing to make it a conversation. Not everyone here has a background in computers, and we certainly can't read your mind to say "Oh... he means THIS". Sometimes you need a bit more to start a good conversation.

Does it relate to streaming from subscription services? Does it make it easier to use a cloud service so I can stream my files to my gigs? What was YOUR take on the article?

We got nothing from you, just a link.

Seriously, you posted a link to a bunch of KJs who 90% of them might never use such a thing other then to store photos and music. Then put words like "Patent Troll" in the topic title. What would you expect to happen? A long conversation about cloud computing?

Plenty of conversations don't turn into anti PEP threads, you left this one to dangle and it became troll meat. Simple as that.

I have worked for Microsoft in some capacity for 20+ years. When I came to this forum, I offered to assist with tech issues. I also have posted the occasional MS related article.

_________________
-Chris

i have never disputed your claim on the digital watermark, how do i check that for myself though? For his statement, i can check it by calling the same person who's name and phone number he posted and ask myself.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Who really cares about a water mark on a bunch of Red Peters songs? I have never heard one of them sung at karaoke. Do you think that karaoke pirates would give a rat's (@$%&#!) about a water mark on a karaoke track? The Sound Choice Logo is all over their tracks and pirates use them every day at every show with no fear of being sued any longer. Who would they be afraid of when it comes to a couple dozen novelty songs? I've looked for Red Peters karaoke many times out of curiosity and they are no where to be found. It seems like supply and demand has taken control of that situation. There is very little demand for them so there is a very limited number of places that care to supply them. I think most people go to karaoke to sing their favorite songs that they hear on the radio. I'm sure that there are some Red Peters fanatics out there but after listening to some of his songs on you tube; I think that singing those songs at your average karaoke bar would get a pretty cool reception from the average crowd. The idea of singing songs that will make the crowd uncomfortable is appealing to some people but the average KJ probably wouldn't purchase these kinds of songs or put them in his song book even if he had them. I'm also sure that there are probably a small number of KJs out there who think that these types of songs are the best thing since sliced bread and they will swear that they get sung at their show all of the time. They always say things like: It's being sung in a bar for adults and adults should be able to handle songs that are sexually explicit. I get it. There are bars where that kind of music is encouraged and enjoyed by the crowd. There is a time and place for everything. If your favorite karaoke joint is one of those places; enjoy yourself and sing Red Peter's track to your hearts content.