Karaoke Forums

Let's try another analogy:

Suppose I'm sitting on my front porch, and I witness my neighbor's house getting robbed. Suppose I not only don't call the cops, but wave to the robber, and tell him if he pays me 100 bucks I won't tell anyone, and I also promise that I personally will cause him no problems. He agrees, and I get paid.


Now suppose that I happen to live in a neighborhood with a high rate of robbery, and make this same deal with other robbers on a regular basis, to the point where I actually go out looking for robberies to occur, so that I can continue to make money this way.


My question:

Am I legally liable in any way? Would it be Aiding and Abetting? Would I be considered an Accessory After The fact? Would I be civilly liable as well?

If I WERE liable, would that liability increase due to my repetition of my actions?

I would assume so, but I don't know for sure. Any answers greatly appreciated.


Now, as long as I'm on the subject, another related question:

A Purely Fictional Story

Let's say that I'm a karaoke company. Let's say that I know for a fact that permission to media shift my music has never been given by the music OWNERS.

Let's pretend that I, the karaoke company, have gone out of my way to find out that a KJ has media shifted. Now let's pretend that I told that KJ that if he paid me a certain amount of money to look at his discs, I would not tell the music owners or anyone else that I had witnessed the fact that he had media shifted without the written permission of the music OWNERS- the people who CAN give permission to do so. Not only that, I would, as the karaoke company, not give him any problems either.

Now, for the purposes of my completely fictional story that has no relation to anyone living or dead, and any similarity to the same purely accidental - and no animals have been hurt in any way during this story- I ask the following:


Would I, as The Karaoke Company, be liable ( in this fictional situation) in any way? If so, Would doing the same thing repeatedly increase my liability?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Joe, yes you could be charged for either.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

When you say that I WOULD be liable, were you including both situations? The personal AND as the karaoke company in my fictional story?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Any posts that are missing, probably didn't count much..

I knew of the letter but this is the first time I have actually seen a copy. I havent heard of any venues losing their permits over this on yet. I wish the officials in Blount Co. Tennessee would follow their lead. Gonna do a follow up tomorrow to see if it has helped here in Knoxville.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

Awesome Rumbolt.

I definitely want to know what you find since I am currently compiling lists of every venue in my area to do a similar campaign.

Thank you for your efforts.

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

I don't think that every law enforcement group, will want to jump on this band wagon. There are so many more important crimes out there that need to be investigated, I don't feel a karaoke piracy task force is on the list of important things to take care of. The FBI is the chief federal law enforcement arm for protecting copyrighted material, and they have done very little as far as piracy is concerned. So little in fact that is why the manus are pressing the matter themselves. Trouble is government local, state and federal have to make choices as to what is most important, and use their resources wisely. The manus themselves are running out of resources, that is why they have taken to charging for their audits. Many of the legal hosts support the manus efforts, as long as it doesn't cost them any time or money. Maybe it is time for the legal hosts that support the manus to take up a collection for them. Oh that's right the manus will be collecting when you get certified by them, right.

Go one better let say the person watching on the porch, has been convicted of being a thieve themselves. They are getting paid off, for a crime they have committed in the past themselves. What is also true, the people that they would report all this to have themselves been convicted of stealing. So if everyone is guilty, how can anyone claim they have the morale high ground? It is indeed the pot calling the kettle black. Even the manus have paid out 100's of millions of dollars in fines for theft. So tell me who are the bad guys? I would really like to know.

A PIRACY, aka CONTENT THEFT, aka WILLFUL INFRINGEMENT task force is high priority. It's not "just" karaoke piracy. Karaoke is only one part of the whole spectrum of audio-visual IP. Y'all need to stop the navel-gazing and look around a bit at the bigger picture.

Here's some cold, hard facts from the Copyright Alliance to ponder:

Economic Impact of Copyright Industries on the U.S. Economy

The core copyright industries contribute 22.74% of total real U.S. growth, with total copyright industries contributing 43.06% of total real U.S. growth. (International Intellectual Property Alliance study “Copyright Industries in the U.S. Economy 2003-3007” by Stephen E. Siwek)

The total copyright industries add an estimated $1.52 trillion to the U.S. economy each year, or 11.05% of total GDP. (IIPA, Siwek)

Total U.S. IP is worth $5-5.5 trillion – more than the gross GDP of any other country. (USA for Innovation study “The Economic Value of Intellectual Property”)

The U.S. copyright industries alone employ 11.7 million Americans in fields as diverse as photography, engineering, accounting and printing. (IIPA, Siwek)

Economic Impact of Trade in U.S. Copyrighted Works

Intellectual property (IP) comprises more than half of all U.S. exports, driving 40 percent of U.S. economic growth. (U.S. Department of Commerce)

Foreign sales by the U.S. copyright industries of $126 billion exceed exports of other sectors including aircraft ($95.6 billion), automobiles ($56.8 billion), agricultural products ($48.1 billion), food ($39.4 billion) and pharmaceuticals ($27.9 billion). (IIPA, Siwek)

Cost of Piracy to the U.S. Economy

Global theft of ideas-driven works costs the U.S. economy $58 billion in lost revenues each year. The annual opportunity costs of this loss include:
• $16. 3 billion in lost wages
• 373,375 in lost jobs
• $2.6 billion in lost tax revenue
(Institute for Policy Innovation study “The True Cost of Copyright Industry Piracy to the U.S. Economy” by Stephen E. Siwek)

For more information, please visit http://copyrightalliance.org.

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Dave's not here.

Joe,
That is an interesting analogy....

So (in my opinion) the following is going on:
#1. SC is threatening trademark infringement and forcing sales of the Gem series.
#2. SC is not only promoting shifting this media, it is enabling these "customers" to shift the media (by providing it in a computer format) for which it can NOT grant a license to do so.
#3. SC, by means of it's gem series agreement promises -although it has provided the product and encouraged customers to violate the rights of the "holders of the underlying musical works" and promises not to sue for the shifting of media.

Hmmm...

One of the biggest offenders, is the People's Republic of China, has anyone filed any suits against Chinese business's that engage in piracy and copyright theft on a huge scale?

China's on the bandwagon too. They're doing what the US should be doing and putting the pirates in jail.

http://articles.boston.com/2011-04-20/b ... reme-court

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/201 ... 411523.htm

http://www.bjreview.com.cn/quotes/txt/2 ... 348302.htm

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Dave's not here.

I respect the fact that you have made such a study of the problems of piracy. I myself would find it hard to spend this much time on the subject, since I'm trying to run a business, and that takes up a great deal of my time.

Why should that surprise you? Unlike other people arguing against piracy, he has more to lose than work from pirates. He is an artist that makes part of his living off of royalty checks from music he has either written or recorded.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

My business is CREATING music. Not just cds, but music for films, games, ads, live performance. Piracy directly impacts my income. It's in my best interest to give some time and effort into protecting my bottom line.

The mistake most people make is viewing those who make a living from creating music and art as "rich." Most of us are just middle class shmoes desperately trying to keep our heads above water.

That's not an easy task when most of the world seems to take the attitude that you should just give your work away . . . and then if you won't, why, they just steal it.

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Dave's not here.

So unless the pirates are affecting my bottom line I really shouldn't be concerned with their activities. Where as the manus are not only trying to effect my business expenses, as well as violate my 4th amendment rights. I should really be concerned about them, using your criteria, right.

Well, MY story was, of course, fictional. However, you do bring up interesting similarities....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

[quote="timberlea"]There goes Chip trying to twist things around. Liquor inspectors have no problem shutting bars down for violations. Around here I've seen them shut down on average, for underaged patrons, an average a week for the first offence and a fine to boot. Underaged around here is the exception. Those found with fake IDs are charged and fined. They also enforce the anti-smoking laws, and check ALL licences. To check the legality of a host wouldn't be difficult and done maybe once a year or if they get information about illegal activities. But nice try.[/quote


Other infractions are easier to prove than karaoke piracy. Underage drinking, gambling, prostitution, and firearms violations don't require a audit to prove. Usually police observation and sting operations are all that are required. Determining if karaoke is pirated would take a longer investigation, and allocation of resources that most law enforcement agencies are not willing to expend, especially in tight budget times like now.

Please take my name off that quote. That was not me. Thanks.

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Birdofsong

Please take my name off that quote. That was not me. Thanks.[/quote]