Karaoke Forums

I really don't care how fast it is, just that its here at home not in NC. Not that I plan to do anything wrong, it just sounds very unreasonable. Stands the hair on the back of my neck up...

Jon

I would venture that the "speedy and public trial" has to do with criminal activity.. so that the government couldn't do what had been happening: toss someone in the slammer for YEARS before getting around to a trial.

Civil cases are different: you're not being held in jail against your will.

You CAN sign away the jurisdictional venue in a civil suit.

Notice that in a criminal proceeding, the government can't prosecute you in Idaho for a crime you committed in Georgia... You will be extradited back to Georgia for trial...

So the diffferences are between criminal and civil.

In civil cases, it is the accuser that must make the trip to the defendant's turf for the battle.... That's why SC has to file suit in California, or Nevada or Florida. That is unless you've already made an agreement with them that any battles will be done on their turf... Which is exactly what they are forcing you to agree to -- so they do not have the added expense of hiring an attorney where you live -- you can hire one where they live. The more they can saddle you with expensive costs, the more likely it is that you'll simply hand them money to go away.

It's never been a secret that they've basically said; "You can either pay us... or pay MORE to your attorney if you choose to fight us... and still have no guarantee of winning"

There are words for this......

They're not about to cave in on that one because if you have to have their product -- you'll sign it -- and if they did cave in, there would be a confidentiality clause to keep it a secret I'm sure.

I'm not about to compromise my rights -- or my principles -- in order to use their product... it's simply not worth it.

And you may have entirely different views on whether or not you "need" their product to operate successfully in this business. Especially since there have been comments such as "you can use our product and prosper, or not" as though you are, or would be, some sort of failure if you don't.

Others may refer to their product as "top tier, best-of-the-best, etc." and that's fine... but for what they are now asking in exchange (years after purchase) it is far too costly for my taste.

The choices are entirely up to you -- you can live free or in a golden birdcage.

The forum selection clause is being removed from the CNS document. The CNS document is one that has evolved from other documents where a forum selection clause is more appropriate. There was never any intention to enforce that concept because, frankly, we don't anticipate having to sue people who are in compliance with the terms of the CNS. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

The new CNS will be available soon--just waiting on final approval of a handful of stylistic changes.

Can you confirm if this is still in the covenant not to sue and explain why this exists for parties who volunteer that you don't anticipate having compliance issues with? Specifically accounting records?

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

The new language reads:



(It is paragraph (m) instead of (l) because of a reorganization of the conditions.)

Hopefully that will answer the question about what exactly is in-bounds versus out-of-bounds regarding accounting records. We do not typically ask to see those unless there is a question about compliance, and that would be raised before the accounting records were specifically asked for.

Guess you were wrong about that. Although it's not really a cave, just a change to the formal policy to match what has been the informal policy for a long time.

(Thought about it.... but not even going to bother.)

So accounting records realting to acquisition, disposition and use of MEDIA records would be:

Acquisition: Receipts and/or bill of sales for purchases?

Dispostition: copy of bill of sale or similar if media was sold to another individual or entity?

Use of Media: Copy of forms or payment and or 1099's? Not really sure why they'd want this?

Have I missed or overlooked anything?

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Harrington,
Would you let me know when the new agreement is available? Thank you for your help, I appreciate it.
Lisah

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

Yeah, that would be it.

Here is how that comes up. You have to remember that we use this document for several different purposes, and we audit under several different circumstances. One of the things we are occasionally having to guard against is the situation where someone buys discs to "cover" tracks that they didn't have discs for at the time of an investigation. So we will sometimes ask for documentation on when a disc was acquired. Other times, someone who is an active buyer and seller of discs might need to account for having had a disc during a show investigation that they later sold. If you had a disc but sold it--which is OK--we might ask for documentation about the date on which you sold it.

The third item is usually more important when somebody is running multiple rigs. We settled a case with a guy one time who was running 9 rigs or so. Most people that run that many systems keep track of at least some basic accounting information so that they know what each rig is producing, etc. This guy was no exception--he had a spreadsheet that he used to keep track of revenues and payments for each system. If we were running an audit on him, we'd probably want to take a look at that spreadsheet so that we could make sure he hadn't created additional systems that we didn't know about.

I can understand that someone starting out now or even in the last few years would and should keep all their information on the purchase of discs and their 1099's. But we started karaoke in 1991 with tapes . Point is.. we no longer have receipts for the discs we bought over 7 years ago. Receipts aren't needed for an audit, correct?

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

I won't say that receipts are never needed for an audit, but for the "pre-suit" audit, such as the one you're obtaining, they are rarely even requested. If you don't have them, just say so.

Yup, that would have to be my answer!
Once again, thanks for your help. I'll be waiting now to get the new agreement... makes me feel better about signing with the new changes. All that legalese can be intimidating

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SoundChoice Certification coming soon!

I still really don't get the need for the financial records portion of the CNS.

Adquisition:
Is not having the original media enough to prove a purchase was made or in the very least that I would be 1:1 providing I had one copy of those tracks on one hard drive? It's good enough for an audit and initial certification, no?

Disposition:
If I sold some SC material wouldn't I want to document that as a defense if a case was ever made against me? Honestly if I was being sued by SC, I'd think they wouldn't want me to have that information.

Use of media:
If a KJ is operating illegally and working off the books and doesn't keep track of all of his/her financial records or claims he doesn't where does that leave you?

Can SC not aquire this type of information from venues?

Again we're talking about KJ's volunteering and paying for the audit, not potential pirates that were sought out and given the option of an audit at no cost. I realize the need for some of this in regards to pirate KJ's but not the one's who are trying to comply with SC's request whether they agree with it or not.

Seems to me there should be a CNS for KJ's who volunteer and another CNS for KJ's who opt to audit after being named in a suit.

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Well, we're trying to have one document. It is an enormous administrative process to maintain different versions of similar documents for different purposes. The rule of reason applies here. No one at SC has a great desire to comb through financial records just for the heck of it. It only gets requested when anomalies raise questions that can't otherwise be answered.

(Incidentally, there are no longer any "no cost" audits. The post-suit audit now carries a base fee of $500.)

I don't understand why you think they should be different... and/or what the differences would be.

Does this mean everyone who is sued is expected to pay $500?
Even those who prove to be 1:1?

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KNOW THYSELF

If I voluntarily submit to SC's request and pay for an audit why should I have to give up rights that HL has stated are for purposes of dealing with those who haven't complied with there requests.

It's their CNS and they have a reason for putting that info in it, but if it doesn't pertain to me then why should I be held to the same standard as a suspected pirate?

They've removed the change of venue info and I'm honestly surprised they did that. I appreciate it, but could easily see them leaving that in as well as the financial records for post-suit audits, but leaving it out of voluntary audits.

If you were completely happy with the CNS would you not pay a one time fee of $125 to be able to go back and start using your SC material without having to carry the disks or worry about a lawsuit? Even if you feel you shouldn't have to pay (and I get that I really do), but would it not be worth it to just pay it and move on?

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Jim I'm really glad you responded so quickly. Let us know when the new draft is complete...BTW there is one free audit you give, when you purchase the "Gem", or should I have gotten that in writing......Chris Emrie says they can do that online somehow. I would rather you came down here and looked around at the gigs we're up agianst also. That would pay for a trip. Come eat at our Applebee's on a Tuesday night here and sing. You'll drool over what their serving...

Jon