Karaoke Forums

I am a firm believer that one can be a legal KJ without being “certified.” (The quotes are deliberate and I’ll let each of you draw your own conclusions on why I chose to quote this word). There are a couple of "certified" KJs in my area who seem to be under the impression that being a Sound Choice "certified" KJ is the equivalent of being a legal, 1:1 compliant, KJ. They have gone so far as to market their companies by publicly stating “The certification is the proof that you have paid for the music and thus your show is legal and the venue is protected from any legal action.” Now, please correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t my purchase receipts for every CDG I’ve ever bought be the actual proof that I paid for my music and am running a legal show, and not “certification” by a karaoke manufacturer, who only represents a fraction of my CDG library?

As far as “the venue is protected from any legal action,”…….I have carefully read the “info for venues” page on Sound Choice’s Safe Harbor website, as well as the questionnaire for hosts, and nowhere does it say that a venue must hire a “certified” KJ to avoid legal action. My interpretation of the policy is that the KJ must be legal, which again, doesn’t equate to being “certified.” To further clarify…my interpretation of being legal is as follows: To be a legal KJ means you are 1:1 compliant. Meaning, you must own a hard copy CDG for every karaoke track on your laptop. If you have 2 laptops with an identical karaoke library, you must have 2 sets of identical CDGS; 3 laptops, 3 sets of CDGs, etc..Once CDGs have been uploaded to a computer, those CDGs are now decorations for your closet, or wherever you choose to store them. But, you must store them. You can’t use them to run 2 shows in one night (1 disc based show & 1 one computer based show.)

The last issue I’d like to address is that of media shifting. I haven’t been able to locate the actual law in the United States which states this is illegal, however, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and I welcome any information on the topic. What I have read is the “Staying Legal” section on the safe harbor website. Sound Choice’s media shifting policy seems pretty straightforward to me. As long as a KJ is 1:1 compliant (see previous paragraph), Sound Choice will agree not to sue on the basis of media shifting. I don’t see it say anywhere that remaining compliant with Sound Choice’s media shifting policy requires “certification” from Sound Choice. Call me crazy, but I think Sound Choice just proved my point for me! A KJ can absolutely be legal WITHOUT being “certified.”

Look, I'm not against anyone who wants to purchase “certification,” and I’m all for eradicating piracy in our industry, but I think we all just need a little dose of reality here. In my opinion, now that Sound Choice & Chartbuster are charging for voluntary audits, becoming “certified” is just another marketing tool that these two companies have added to their business model to make more money. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t begrudge any company looking to increase revenues, but MY business shouldn’t be perceived negatively or be threatened with legal action should I choose not to partake in another company’s marketing plan. So, unlike Sound Choice, what about all the other karaoke manufacturers out there who are just tending to their business of making new karaoke music? You know, the ones that don't have "certification" departments? What do we say to the KJ who has spent thousands of dollars on CDGs and none of them are Sound Choice or Chartbuster, thus making it impossible for him/her to get "certified?" Are we saying they are illegal? What do we say to someone who has purchased over a thousand CDGs, with receipts in hand, but only 15% of those CDGs are Sound Choice? If they were to get "certified" are we saying their business would only be 15% legal? Do you see where I'm going with this and how ridiculous it is to imply that a KJ is not legal simply because they are not "certified?”

I welcome all feedback, as well as differing points of view on anything I’ve posted here. Thanks, everyone!

Sure....

Keep in mind that unless you "have express permission" from Sound Choice to media shift, you are utilizing COUNTERFEIT music and you are a PIRATE and will be SUED - because it is their right to do so. This is according to HarringtonLaw - Sound Choice's legal counsel.

And this is even if you have every receipt for every disc you've ever purchased.

Once you pay them for the privilege - they will provide you with a "certification" that will suddenly convert all previously counterfeit music to "authentic" music, change your status from "pirate" to "valued customer," protect you and your venues from lawsuits and clear up any "confusion" your singers may have as to the origin of the previously pirated, counterfeit music.

Just hand them money..... it's a "cure-all."

C - Thank you for your input. Would you mind pointing me to an actual legal document, written by the courts or by the United States Congress, which states I must have a CDG manufacturer’s permission to media shift for commercial use? I appreciate the fact that James Harrington uses this information on behalf of his client; however, I would be more comfortable knowing from where he obtained his knowledge. Any ideas? Thanks so much.

It has nothing to do with media shifting... it is "trademark infringement."

Forget the music part, forget the lyrics, forget the sweeps...

I'm sure that HarringtonLaw would love to explain it all....

I agree with the OP. And so does Stellar Records by the way...

A while ago I purchased some PH disks on ebay and got an email from Tony from Stellar Records about how I wanted those disks? Either the original disks or mp3 disks. Long story short, through out this "discussion" I asked for their perspective of things; if and when a KJ is legal and that I heard that for example SC goes after KJ's that own disks, but media-shift their disks to a computer. The answer was very clear: "As long as you are 1:1 compliant you ARE legal and they will not go after you". PERIOD ... no media-shifting BS

It's kind of funny when you read those lawsuits from SC. In the opening they clearly state that they are suing for trademark infringement. But when you read further, how they go into detail what this lawsuit is about, their reasoning right after that, everything sounds like copyright infringement. I would LOVE to take this to court and have a judge make a decision on it.

That's why I am a firm believer of NOT giving in to those scare tactics and pay extra money for BS certifications. If they want to see my disks, they can drag me to court. And I have a good feeling if I do show my disks at court, it will be the end to it.

I think I read in one of these threads that one would show discs in the discovery portion of the litigation and it would never reach a courtroom if you showed all the original discs at discovery thus being the end of it.

That's fine... but I sure am not paying for an audit.

not if they have media shifted without permission or are running a disc based show from original manu discs. Black and white no gray in my opinion

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I believe all KJs are certifiable, especially those who are certified.

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Media shifting is something created by Sound Choice - no other manufacturer addresses this issue because they don't care and it's not an issue - all they ask is that you pay for their product. Prime Cuts has offered delivery via MP3 for over 2 years for music - all karaoke companies that still produce music also offer digital content - welcome to the future.

Loving the feedback from everyone so far. Thanks, guys! Couple of things….

Sevarin totally gets it. One thing to keep in mind is that Sound Choice has 2 different audit agreements. One that is for voluntary audits and one that is for your post-lawsuit audit (after you have already been named as a defendant.) The voluntary one charges you to be audited. The post-lawsuit one does not. Same audit, but if you choose to go to the trouble of proving you are legal BEFORE your reputation gets tarnished in a lawsuit, you have to pay for it. Once again, the “presumed guilty” get another “deal” by not having to pay for their audits. Crazy, huh? Incidentally, I have copies of both audits agreements. If anyone would like a copy, just email me privately and I’ll be happy to send them to you.

Secondly, to C. & Athena – You guys still haven’t pointed me to the actual law that states media shifting is illegal. Until someone can furnish that, I’m with Rick – the issue of "Media shifting is something created by Sound Choice."

Just remember even though you do not pay SC for an audit at a Discovery, you will be paying your attorney (I suspect at a higher cost than the SC audit). The result is the same, the cost is not. Of course you clould represent yourself but the old adage of a person who represents themselves has a fool for a client. This is especially true if you do not know the legal system.

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I understand your concern timberlea and I agree with you... in general. But in this kind of case, it does come down to show your original disks and your 1:1 compliance. I really don't need a lawyer for that.

Timberlea, Your post are always so assured about your stance and the law in karaoke use. How many times have KJ's in Canada been sued. It is very easy to be confident when there is no real threat. If there are some cases "show 'em to me"

Xen0saga,

Can you send me a copy of the voluntary audit agreement? I was named as a defendant, Sleptone vs. without ever being offered a "voluntary audit". My email is darbykproductions@yahoo.com. Chartbuster has offered $199 in store credit for doing a skype audit and paying $199 up front. There agreement form in 1 page long. And there is no wording which opens the door to future lawsuits for your business. Thank you Chartbuster for taking a stand against piracy but not sueing loyal customers who's purchases helped create your wealth.

We have our second pre-trial conference in federal court tomorrow. I will post anything worth noting.

Question: Has anyone ever been asked in the history of your karaoke business when purchasing a cd+g disc at a store or via web to first get permission from Sound Choice to use the disc for commercial business?

You are not required to get permission from SC to use the disc for commercial business.

If you shift the contents of that disc over to a hard drive, and use the hard drive, you aren't using the disc for commercial business.

For the last few years, there have been slips included with each SC disc that explain about the computer use.

Just because there's a slip in there saying you can't do it, doesn't mean it is illegal. I'm definitely willing to let a judge make a decision on that.

Darby - I'd be happy to send it to you, but just to clarify....Sound Choice wouldn't "offer" you a voluntary audit. This is something you must ask for, hence, making it "voluntary" on your part.

That is up to you. I was responding to the question as far as has anyone been warned when they bought the discs and the answer is yes.