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How Much Do You Charge...
https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=23458		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  How Much Do You Charge...
PyleDriver wrote:
Where oh where are your P.I.'s Jim?

Jon

Not interested in small town America. They are busy frying bigger fish in Vegas. They want to go where the real money is. They don't care about guys who have no money because they won't be able to pay the judgements.
Author:  Alan B [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
Lisah, are you reporting these pirates to Chartbuster and SC? Are you informing the owners that they could possibly lose their business buy hiring one of these pirates?

Yes, I know that most bar owners are cheap but ask them if they're willing to put their business at risk and be faced with lawsuits in order to save a buck.
Author:  Lisah [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
Alan, haven't yet, but am planning on it. And yes, going to the bars is on my list also.
I was going to wait until the SC audit was done... but I know I don't need to wait, so will do with just the CB for now. My mom has been sick, so between getting all my ducks in a row for SC audit, I've been taking care of her. Not enough time in the day unfortunately.

Ducks are in a nice row as of this evening :) Call to SC scheduled for tomorrow morning! At that time I'll be asking about the reporting.

I hate being a snitch...but it's gotten personal now.
Author:  PyleDriver [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
We were waiting for our SC certificate also, but the owner called wanting someone Thursdays, then asked if we could DJ on Tues and Wed the next week, then this week we went karaoke all three days...Bobby, we have So. Padre Island 35 minutes away, the big spring break destination. We have 1.4 million within 40 miles of us... We have 7 KJ's here and we're the only one running a clean show in town. I figure there's well over 100 KJ's in the Valley, most DJ's turn wantabe KJ...

Jon
Author:  Lisah [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
PyleDriver wrote:
We were waiting for our SC certificate also, but the owner called wanting someone Thursdays, then asked if we could DJ on Tues and Wed the next week, then this week we went karaoke all three days...Bobby, we have So. Padre Island 35 minutes away, the big spring break destination. We have 1.4 million within 40 miles of us... We have 7 KJ's here and we're the only one running a clean show in town. I figure there's well over 100 KJ's in the Valley, most DJ's turn wantabe KJ...

Jon


Wow, that's really encouraging!! How did the venues know you were the only one legal? Did you contact them first.. how? In person, by letter?
Author:  c. staley [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
I think it's nothing more than selling fear, pretty sad really....
Author:  leopard lizard [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
c. staley wrote:
I think it's nothing more than selling fear, pretty sad really....


But haven't you been selling the fear that a person will get sued for playing even their discs or anything by SC? Doesn't the venue deserve to know about this? Isn't that exactly how you justified removing all of your SC to your venue? Why not use it to stack the deck against an illegal competitor?
Author:  c. staley [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
leopard lizard wrote:
c. staley wrote:
I think it's nothing more than selling fear, pretty sad really....


But haven't you been selling the fear that a person will get sued for playing even their discs or anything by SC? Doesn't the venue deserve to know about this? Isn't that exactly how you justified removing all of your SC to your venue? Why not use it to stack the deck against an illegal competitor?


Nope... I'm not in the "fear business" and by removing SC from our club, I've effectively removed any fear as well. The venue is completely aware of the refusal to guarantee no lawsuit for using their product on the discs we purchased. They don't have a problem with it - the patrons don't have a problem with it either. I'm not the "bad guy" here; I bought the discs and paid a handsome price for the music.

If you read back through the threads, you'll see that SC will sue those that media shift - without permission - including their clubs and will not even guarantee the safety of disc-based operators as well. So it appears that if you use their product - media shifted or not - you may be subject to a lawsuit. And according to others; without warning. (Ref: http://dkusa.com/images/LVNews.jpg

I am (believe it or not) the "victim" here.... Stuck with thousands of dollars of product I can no longer use without risking legal action due to "the human element" who is prone to "mistakes" on the part of the manufacturer and/or the subcontractors they hire.

So again, I'm not in the "fear business," I have more integrity than that.
And I'm not in the "risk business" either. I'm not about to risk my business or my venue's business to unnecessary or expensive legal action when it can be avoided.
I'm in the "karaoke business."
I don't make money off of fear.
Author:  PyleDriver [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
Chip once agian I ask is 150.00 going to break you? It seems like a small price to pay so your customers can enjoy using your thousands of dollars you invested in SC. If not that, then why? Seems its either your pride or something to hide...

Jon
Author:  birdofsong [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
PyleDriver wrote:
Chip once agian I ask is 150.00 going to break you? It seems like a small price to pay so your customers can enjoy using your thousands of dollars you invested in SC. If not that, then why? Seems its either your pride or something to hide...

Jon


Here we go again....once more...in ENGLISH. It isn't the money. Oh...and be a good boy and stop with the insinuations...if you can help yourself.
Author:  c. staley [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
PyleDriver wrote:
Chip once agian I ask is 150.00 going to break you? It seems like a small price to pay so your customers can enjoy using your thousands of dollars you invested in SC. If not that, then why? Seems its either your pride or something to hide...

Jon


For over 15 YEARS, my customers "enjoyed" using my thousands of dollars I invested in SC products.

I bought the product, and SC had no problem taking my money. Even for the $50 EACH custom discs I purchased. And SC "enjoyed" making money off of me. I have no intention to make any additional "contractual agreements" that weren't specified when the product was first purchased. Especially with the terms in their audit agreement.

And I'm really getting tired of the insinuations that because I don't subscribe to their "program" that somehow I must be "hiding something." Could you say the same about them being above board on their licensing or their lawsuits or investigators.... that because they won't show everyone..... should I say that; "they MUST be hiding something!" I do not insinuate that every person that either leases their product, or signs an audit agreement, or even goes through with their ridiculous audit is an "idiot" do I? Of course not.

It has nothing to do with "the money" and they should be the ones paying the KJ's for the privilege of being able to see what the KJ's personal property is....

They sold a good product at a hefty price, I bought it and they got paid for it..... Now they want to add to that price and it's not just money they're adding.

It's not acceptable and it's not the end of story.
Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
c. staley wrote:
PyleDriver wrote:
Chip once agian I ask is 150.00 going to break you? It seems like a small price to pay so your customers can enjoy using your thousands of dollars you invested in SC. If not that, then why? Seems its either your pride or something to hide...

Jon


For over 15 YEARS, my customers "enjoyed" using my thousands of dollars I invested in SC products.

I bought the product, and SC had no problem taking my money. Even for the $50 EACH custom discs I purchased. And SC "enjoyed" making money off of me. I have no intention to make any additional "contractual agreements" that weren't specified when the product was first purchased. Especially with the terms in their audit agreement.

And I'm really getting tired of the insinuations that because I don't subscribe to their "program" that somehow I must be "hiding something." Could you say the same about them being above board on their licensing or their lawsuits or investigators.... that because they won't show everyone..... should I say that; "they MUST be hiding something!" I do not insinuate that every person that either leases their product, or signs an audit agreement, or even goes through with their ridiculous audit is an "idiot" do I? Of course not.

It has nothing to do with "the money" and they should be the ones paying the KJ's for the privilege of being able to see what the KJ's personal property is....

They sold a good product at a hefty price, I bought it and they got paid for it..... Now they want to add to that price and it's not just money they're adding.

It's not acceptable and it's not the end of story.

AMEN, and well stated!!
Author:  PyleDriver [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
Ok, so it's your pride thats keeping your customers from enjoying SC then...Well it's not the money, and you don't have anything to hide, so it your hardheaded pride. I understand all your postions on this. I agree with most of them. Simple truth is they can and they are. Is this all worth denying your customers the very best?... You should just pay the 150.00 and get the audit Chip. Are you afraid everything will go smooth and you won't have anything to complain about then?
Also we really don't need to hear your 100% guarantee of not being sued argument all over agian.

Jon
Author:  c. staley [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
PyleDriver wrote:
Ok, so it's your pride thats keeping your customers from enjoying SC then...Well it's not the money, and you don't have anything to hide, so it your hardheaded pride. I understand all your postions on this. I agree with most of them. Simple truth is they can and they are. Is this all worth denying your customers the very best?... You should just pay the 150.00 and get the audit Chip. Are you afraid everything will go smooth and you won't have anything to complain about then?
Also we really don't need to hear your 100% guarantee of not being sued argument all over agian.

Jon


This is what you don't understand: It's not the money and it's not a "pride issue" or even a "piracy issue"... it's a "privacy issue." They sold the product, I bought it. That's it... game over. Thank me for my business, hope I come back and buy more, and then be on your way.

I'm not subjecting myself to some baloney "inspection" -- years later -- like they're some kind of gov't entity. They're not. And I'm sure as hell not about to "pay for the privilege" either.

And no Jon, I'm not "afraid everything will go smooth and I won't have anything to complain about." They are the ones claiming that even using the discs I'm at some risk for a lawsuit. Harrington's parameters (or "solutions") are stupidly ludicrous.

I'm not the one damaging them and I'm not the one that wants to insert myself in their business. I simply bought the product and want to be left alone.

What part of this is so dreadfully unfair to you?
Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
AMEN, AGAIN!!!!
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
Smoothedge69 wrote:
PyleDriver wrote:
Where oh where are your P.I.'s Jim?

Jon

Not interested in small town America. They are busy frying bigger fish in Vegas. They want to go where the real money is. They don't care about guys who have no money because they won't be able to pay the judgements.


Actually, it looks like small town America is their stomping ground. They seem to get a bit nervous around the tri-state ( NY-NJ-CT) area, LA, Chicago, and other areas where people are known to have a more pugnacious attitude. They prefer their KJs easier to intimidate...
Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
JoeChartreuse wrote:
Smoothedge69 wrote:
PyleDriver wrote:
Where oh where are your P.I.'s Jim?

Jon

Not interested in small town America. They are busy frying bigger fish in Vegas. They want to go where the real money is. They don't care about guys who have no money because they won't be able to pay the judgements.


Actually, it looks like small town America is their stomping ground. They seem to get a bit nervous around the tri-state ( NY-NJ-CT) area, LA, Chicago, and other areas where people are known to have a more pugnacious attitude. They prefer their KJs easier to intimidate...

I have never been easy to intimidate.
Author:  PyleDriver [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
Privacy? Chip you run a business to the open public using copyrighted materials. What part of this makes you think you have a right to privacy with that material? It's not like your a hotdog vendor. If your looking for privacy your in the wrong business...

Jon
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
PyleDriver wrote:
You should just pay the 150.00 and get the audit Chip. Are you afraid everything will go smooth and you won't have anything to complain about then?
Also we really don't need to hear your 100% guarantee of not being sued argument all over agian.

Jon


Then I'll repeat it. You should read ChrisAvis' post. He has stated that even though he has been certified by Stellar, CB, and SC, there is STILL no guarantee that he will not be sued- and he's pro-SC methodology.

What trained business person in their right mind would pay a PENNY for an audit with no guarantee? What else would a trained business person pay for with no guarantee of delivery?

Forgetting the "right" or no "right", this would be nothing but nonsense to any educated business person.

My apologies in advance to those who have laid out the money. No personal offense is intended. However, I state unequivocally that it was it was a bad business move. Unless SC's assertions are ever proven in court, ( and it is my belief that they never will be- but either way it hasn't happened yet) business funds have been laid out for no proveable reason, except the generation of fear.
Author:  PyleDriver [ Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Much Do You Charge...
Well Joe if the KJ could guarantee that he would never run bootleged material then they will guarantee not to sue. However if they said that after we audit you we guarantee 100% not to sue you, and you bootleg later and then they sue you, than there was no 100% guarantee. So really there is no such thing as a 100% guarantee that they can give...Don't you guys see that?

Jon
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