Karaoke Forums

With ALL that's been going on in the world of karaoke, I personally find what's happening, to be disgusting. Even on this forum. Everyone (picking up sides), cheerleaders, non cheerleaders, pirates, anti-pirates. Pro choice (pun intended) anti-choice. Certified, un-certified. What happened to good old KARAOKE. NOT LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER, IT'S A RHETORICAL QUESTION. The newest that I've noticed is being CERTIFIED. Personally, if that's your (choice), fine with me, or if not, that's fine with me also. The thing I find that makes it a "sad state of affairs", is when you have to brag that you've been CERTIFIED, and THAT'S the reason that you are getting gigs because of it. Here's why I think that. EXAMPLE: Good kj (not certified), has good equipment, good selection, has a nice show, good hosting skills. Reason he's keeping his gig is because of the above mentioned attributes. I personally am proud of MY show, and take pride in knowing that I'm doing a GOOD JOB, and keeping my venue owner happy, because I have the above mentioned attributes, BUT, I'm NOT certified. So.... does that make me any less (professional)? To me, a "certification" should be just another ADDITIONAL "selling point", not "THE selling point".
EXAMPLE: Below average, to horrible kj (certified), has shoddy equipment, poor or inadequate selection, could care less about the quality of the show, (there for the party), only hosting skills is that he (or she) can drink with the best of them. Is getting gigs, because he (or she) is telling venues that they are "certified", and anyone else that isn't "certified" could cause them a "law suit" if they hire someone else.
That's what I find detrimental to the future of KARAOKE. just because you're "certified", you now become a (model kj), I say that's BS.
None of this effects me, because I have one venue, and that's all I want. So, I'm not in the "hunt". It's just like any other "certification", you can go to school and get all the certifications possible, BUT, that doesn't necessarily make you the BEST worker ON THE JOB. If this is the trend, that all you have to do is be "certified", especially since most, or some only became certified because they were "pirates", this is where I see the quality of KARAOKE going "further" down the tubes. Right now, if I want to go to a show that's comparable to mine, or at least NOT Crappyoke, I have to drive 50 miles. I've ALWAYS
believed in doing my job to the best of my ability, never looking for some "certification", or other paper to prove how good my work is. Maybe it's just me, but that's MY opinion on the "sad state of KARAOKE". Have fun piling on now, let the games begin....

Srnitynow

If it wasn't for people stealing the music, these affairs would probably have never materialized in the first place.

Correct, BUT, then they get threatened with a law suit, agree to settle, get "certified". Does that make them any better KJ now, than when they were out there with the stolen music, and crappy equipment (or good equipment), and terrible hosting skills. Does that piece of paper now make them (kj of the year)? Isn't having job skills, or professionalism worth anything? Isn't it about KARAOKE?

Srnitynow

Ok folks, here's a quick snapshot of my local market. I may have missed a couple, but here are the major KJ players:

KJ 1 - Certified by SC & CB - 5 current shows
KJ 2 - Certified by SC & CB - 1 current show
KJ 3 - Certified by SC only - 3 current shows
KJ 4 - Certified by SC & CB - 0 current shows
KJ 5 - Certified by SC only - 2 current shows
KJ 6 - Certified by SC & CB - 2 current shows
KJ 7 - Certified by SC & CB - 2 current shows
KJ 8 - Not Certified - 1 current show
KJ 9 - Named in SC suit - 4 current shows
KJ 10 - Named in SC suit - 2 current shows
KJ 11 - Not Certified - 3 current shows
KJ 12 - Not certified - 1 current show
KJ 13 - Named in SC suit - 4 current shows
KJ 14 - Not certified - 2 current shows

Not really seeing where the certification is paying off AND the SC suit that named the KJs I cited above was more than 1 year ago, they're all still making money and taking shows on a regular basis from the "certified" guys. It's a scam, certification doesn't help you.

It seems to have assisted me twice now.

-Chris

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-Chris

It's all good, whatever makes things work for each kj......same as anything else in life, drink/ don't drink, exercise/ couch potato, having sex/ married....... ........lets start talking about fun things that happen at karaoke......or strange things...... .....life is short, let's live a little..........it's only sad because we keep harping about the same old thing...what's new?.....

That's basically my point johnny, everybody is talking about pirates, certifications, and everything else BUT karaoke. I'm still having fun at my show, and not really worried about what's going on with the whole world of crime, and espionage, and mystery SURROUNDING karaoke, but it just saddens me to see all of this energy being put into ways of manipulating the system, instead of honing their craft, and putting on the best karaoke show possible, rather than worrying if they're certified or not. JMO....

Srnitynow

Btw, nice seeing you on here Johnny.... til we meet again.

So Chris are you saying you could not have gotten 2 karaoke shows without being "certified" by two vendors? You have no sales skills, no rapport with a venue owner, you're unprofessional, have no business sense at all? How the hell did anybody ever book karaoke shows before all this came about?

We only have one show, my son does it at one of the bars where he does DJ work and we also do their trivia. We won't do any more than that one. I don't want to do karaoke, won't do it because I don't like doing it. But I guarantee you I could go out and book 2 venues to start doing it within a week, because I'm a sales guy and I know how to sell it. You most likely are too. I know you've paid them money and you've bought into the whole "certification" deal, but please, don't credit that for booking business.

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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

piracy is one issue ...crap-i-oke is another as hosts we all have to deal with both. I would love to talk of ways to hone our craft. Our (DH and my) business would not still be in business if we ran crap-i-oke shows after 18+ years. I try and share thoughts on ways to handle different issues and have found some really good ideas on karaoke forums in the last couple of years. It is a sad state of affairs that piracy has effected ALL hosts to the extent it has......Lets talk about ways to eliminate the crap-i-oke shows that compete as well. Any suggestions ?


Athena

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Let's face it...is certification necessary?? Of course not, but it's just one more tool KJ's can use to get the gig. All things being equal, it's the reason a venue owner will/should hire you over the other guy who is willing to do it a lot cheaper. Anyone can say they're legal, but without certification you are not proving anything. And I don't think that any prospective venue owner is going to take the time to audit you themselves. So, that piece of paper does hold merit. But I agree that it's a shame it had to come to this point.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

So what happens when everybody is certified? What will you use to make yourself stand out from your competitors? Just because you have certification does not make you a professional entertainer, just as a lack of that piece of paper makes you not one. The point of my earlier post is that in spite of SC rolling through my market THREE TIMES is that the certified KJs have no more business than the non-certified KJs after spending the time and money to get approval of 1 or 2 vendors, both which are now out of the karaoke business.

How ignorant does it sound to tell a venue owner that you are "certified" by two vendors, both who are no longer in business" I'd love to be your competitor and sell against that talk track - that's a little too easy, so you really have no advantage at all. Think about it.

[quote="rickgood"
How ignorant does it sound to tell a venue owner that you are "certified" by two vendors, both WHO ARE NO LONGER IN BUSINESS" I'd love to be your competitor and sell against that talk track - that's a little too easy, so you really have no advantage at all. Think about it.[/quote]


Never really thought of it that way until just now...

Certification was done just to potentially protect my business and venues from unnecessary lawsuits.

Not to mention the fact that one of the companies went out of business after being actively involved in producing unlicensed materials and getting sued for doing it. Why is it that people still talk about CB like they just faded away? My guess is that there isn't a Certified host out there that has pulled CB material because it might be illegal. Seems if they aren't going to get sued for it, then it's fair game by them. I think it's pretty hypocritical to walk into a bar and market yourself as CB certified as though that somehow means you're more above board than the next host.

This fight apparently has nothing to do with integrity.

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Birdofsong

They were sued by cavs for improperly licensing for their Scdg discs. Not necessarily the rest of their library for cdg. As far as CB certified, it still could look good to a prospective customer that does care that this kj has their original discs and didn't do what kj's looking for the easy way out and stole it all.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I think it would be pointless to mention it to the owner of the venue I work at. It's all about fun still, right? That's all people really want to think of it. I doubt she even knows who "Sound Choice" or "Chartbuster" is. (It might not help that I use Siglos Pro and use the silence remove feature, which unintentionally causes the logos to rarely appear at the beginning of the songs)

In both cases the venues were specifically looking for a certified host. So to answer your question, No, I would not have gotten the shows without being certified since that was a requirement stipulated by both venues.

-Chris

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-Chris

Chris, you've just made my point very clear. What you're saying is that he didn't hire you for your ability as a karaoke host, but because you had a piece of paper saying that you were a "certified karaoke host". I have no idea how good you do your job, but will assume you are a good karaoke host. How would you like it if you weren't certified, and a lesser skilled or TOTALLY unskilled karaoke host who is now "certified" for whatever reason got the job instead of you. After all, EVERYONE was always on the forum saying how terrible the "pirate" shows were. Shoddy equipment, terrible hosts, etc. but now that they've made a deal with SC, and they're "certified", venue owners will hire (only certified) hosts. Isn't something wrong with this picture??? Good hosts will be pushed out by hacks, because they stole music, got caught, and cut a deal. "Certified" Unskilled theives, is that the future of karaoke????

Srnitynow

No, YOU are saying that. What I am saying is exactly what I said "It seems to have assisted me twice now." Everyone seems to be ignoring the word "assisted" in my short post.

I received calls from these clubs because I was certified. I secured the gigs because of me.
Certification simply got me in the door. I still had to sell myself.
Anyone can get certified. Not everyone can sell themselves.

But I do somewhat agree with your assessment of what is happening in the market.

Piracy gave us a glut of karaoke hosts and, in my opinion, generally lowered the quality of karaoke shows/hosts across the bar.
Settlements are now giving us a glut of certified hosts without moving the needle on quality.

Additionally, while I like the idea of certification, I feel it should be reserved for those that 1) voluntarily pursue it and 2) voluntarily pay their financial dues via legitimate purchases.

The more I think about it, the more I see certifying those that were sued and settled as a slap in the face to those that did the right thing from the beginning.

Truly makes me wonder sometimes why I didn't just pirate away and wait to be sued.

-Chris

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-Chris

I think the reasons some of us don't volunteer have been made clear and they are reasonable reasons. Also don't forget the ones who might still not know about what's going on. If you buy anything from SC now yes it comes with threatening literature. But not everyone needs more old music. If they're just getting new releases (which SC doesn't do) they may not have the info. Besides who likes to be threatened...I bet anyone who doesn't visit here still believes buying the originals is all they needed to do to be legal (which SHOULD be the case as long as you prove 1:1 ratio if asked).