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| Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) https://mail.karaokescenemagazine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28053 |
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| Author: | MadMusicOne [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
...So, I'm guessing we're no longer allowed to play tracks from the following artists, anymore? According to the 2013 Karaoke Cloud Music Summit" ...Justin Timberlake, Prince, Bee Gees, Paul Simon, ABBA, Bon Jovi, Bruce Springsteen, Dire Straits, Van Morrison, Adele, Mumford & Sons, Coldplay, Eagles, Foo Fighters, Green Day, Katy Perry, Madonna, Pink Floyd, Van Halen, Garth Brooks...more to come? |
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| Author: | kjflorida [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
They can be used IF you own the tracks on a legal US manus disc produced before the artist pulled the rights...that was covered in the Q@A after the summit |
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| Author: | JoeChartreuse [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
kjflorida wrote: They can be used IF you own the tracks on a legal US manus disc produced before the artist pulled the rights...that was covered in the Q@A after the summit Are you saying that discs licensed in the UK, such as the Legends Bee Gees and Springsteen discs will no longer be useable? The same for SC's Eagles? ( The suit was paid, but it was never licensed.) |
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| Author: | timberlea [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
C'mon Joe, don't be so dense. If you already have it, it is okay. It being the disc or download. You know better. |
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| Author: | MadMusicOne [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
kjflorida wrote: They can be used IF you own the tracks on a legal US manus disc produced before the artist pulled the rights...that was covered in the Q@A after the summit ...I did miss the beginning of the "Live Summit" but just got a little concerned about that "List" that was being mentioned (just started watching the recorded version). Once I got to the 8 minute mark, decided to go to All Star and look up Adele and they're still selling tracks by her. Decided to go to Sound Choice and check on the All Star CDGs that they're selling. No Adele but found Justin Timberlake. Was just searching "at-a-glance." ...I guess what got me concerned is the example that was given in the video ... (the examples that were given from 4:55-7:35). It sounded as though he was saying we (kjs) shouldn't be playing any karaoke tracks by those artists on the "No-Fly" List. ...I will admit, I haven't seen the whole 2013 Summit Session, yet. But like many of you, I thought as long as we had a "Manufacturer's Original Media" (be it cdg, mp3, sd card, etc.) we were good? ...This is the first time I've seen such a list. Have heard rumors, over the years, of certain artists/songwriters who wouldn't license their works for Karaoke but.... THE LIST? When did this come into affect? Auh....confusion! |
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| Author: | The Lone Ranger [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
 What is so confusing, for years the supporters of the legal process wanted the industry to take a hard stand, now you got your wish. The hosts are going to be completely controlled as to what you can play and what you can't. There will be a lack options and you will have at best two choices and everything else will be off limits. No hosts will be any different from any other host since everyone will have the same licensed material. Simple isn't it?
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| Author: | kjflorida [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
JoeC, Clarification should be available when the cloud footage is on Youtube. The remarks are contained at the end of the summit during question and answer period. The speaker addressed the "no fly list" and was asked for clarification from the KJ's representative. The speaker then corrected himself as to the legality of LEGAL discs purchased prior to an artist pulling the availability. I only got to listen to the end of the summit and asked Athena to request further clarification of this point on chat. I did not catch the name of the person answering the questions. And yes the wording was a legally produced/purchased US discs would be allowed to remain in a hosts library(based upon my recollection). The summit did explain the difference between tracks produced in the UK and US in detail per Athena's notes. |
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| Author: | chrisavis [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
I wasn't able to watch more than the first couple hours. I didn't hear about a list until reading this thread. I am going to continue to use music that I purchase on OEM disk, and buy from any download site I have access to until someone with the authority to do something about it tells me to stop. I am paying for my music and it is the responsibility of the industry - NOT ME - to determine what *they are allowed to sell me* for use at my karaoke shows. -Chris |
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| Author: | Paradigm Karaoke [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
chrisavis wrote: I am paying for my music and it is the responsibility of the industry - NOT ME - to determine what *they are allowed to sell me* for use at my karaoke shows. -Chris it is your responsibility to make sure that each and every track you have has the mechanical license, lyric reprint license, and sync license paid for and with contracts to back it up along with written permission from the karaoke manu that put it out to play it in a public setting for commercial purposes. if a track not have all of that you must remove it from your library and report the offending karaoke manufacturer to.........someone. i'm sure if you ask SC, or KJFlorida, Athena, or InsaneKJ they will verify that. |
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| Author: | chrisavis [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
Paradigm Karaoke wrote: chrisavis wrote: I am paying for my music and it is the responsibility of the industry - NOT ME - to determine what *they are allowed to sell me* for use at my karaoke shows. -Chris it is your responsibility to make sure that each and every track you have has the mechanical license, lyric reprint license, and sync license paid for and with contracts to back it up along with written permission from the karaoke manu that put it out to play it in a public setting for commercial purposes. if a track not have all of that you must remove it from your library and report the offending karaoke manufacturer to.........someone. i'm sure if you ask SC, or KJFlorida, Athena, or InsaneKJ they will verify that. I have no intention of verifying any of that. It is an unnecessary burden to be placed on individuals that do not have the resources to do this. If it is as complicated as the manufacturers say it is, than I should have the reasonable expectation that when I purchase a retail track from a reputable company that they have done due diligence to be able to produce the track in the first place. I should have no greater worry than determining who is a reputable dealer/company and who is not. btw......I recognize your sarcasm, Paradigm. I am with you on it. -Chris |
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| Author: | The Lone Ranger [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
| I'm a little confused Chris I thought you were for some kind of central clearinghouse or central authority you respected, saying what was kosher to have in a host's library. That if such a system was established you would clean up your library. Now we are on the verge of having just this type of a system, and you don't want to comply? I have often said that if you got the type of total control the manus were shooting for most hosts wouldn't like it. Well it's here and guess what many don't like it.
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| Author: | chrisavis [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
I am pretty sure most people understand what my previous post means without any further clarification. I am not going to explain it to you just because you wish to stir the pot. -Chris |
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| Author: | gretchen [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
Just a clarification....The artist at anytime can pull their license for karaoke. Like Adel for example, it was cleared through the publishers and then she decided she no longer wanted her music licensed for Karaoke. If you already purchased the track from a reputable karaoke manu then you are fine. Just hold onto it because you will not be able to purchase it anymore. Another thing, like Garth Brooks, he did not write all of the songs that he made popular. That is why you will find some of the songs he performed on karaoke but not all of them. Only the songs that the singer writes are the ones they have control over. |
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| Author: | MrBoo [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
Finally something that makes sense in the Legal forum! Thanks, Gretchen! |
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| Author: | JimHarrington [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
chrisavis wrote: I am paying for my music and it is the responsibility of the industry - NOT ME - to determine what *they are allowed to sell me* for use at my karaoke shows. -Chris I think that where you are on that is the correct position, as long as you recognize that there is a small, perhaps negligible risk that your use of an actually unlicensed product would result in you incurring liability to the publishers. If you were sued, you would very likely be able to bring the manufacturer into the suit as a third-party defendant, provided, of course, that the manu was still around. That would have the effect of mitigating at least some of your damages. However, I think there is a bit of a catch-22 on that point...if the manu is around to sue, the publisher would almost certainly prefer to sue the manu rather than you. |
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| Author: | The Lone Ranger [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
HarringtonLaw wrote: chrisavis wrote: I am paying for my music and it is the responsibility of the industry - NOT ME - to determine what *they are allowed to sell me* for use at my karaoke shows. -Chris I think that where you are on that is the correct position, as long as you recognize that there is a small, perhaps negligible risk that your use of an actually unlicensed product would result in you incurring liability to the publishers. If you were sued, you would very likely be able to bring the manufacturer into the suit as a third-party defendant, provided, of course, that the manu was still around. That would have the effect of mitigating at least some of your damages. However, I think there is a bit of a catch-22 on that point...if the manu is around to sue, the publisher would almost certainly prefer to sue the manu rather than you. So what are you exactly saying James? That this threat of SC and CB/PR/WW/DTE to bring publishers into settle the question of hosts using orphan/abandon ware product is just a bluff? A way to try and pressure hosts that boycott both SC and CB/DTE into using either or both products or services? Leaving the impression on the host that there is no place to go if they want to stay in business. Have a legal day.
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| Author: | chrisavis [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
HarringtonLaw wrote: chrisavis wrote: I am paying for my music and it is the responsibility of the industry - NOT ME - to determine what *they are allowed to sell me* for use at my karaoke shows. -Chris I think that where you are on that is the correct position, as long as you recognize that there is a small, perhaps negligible risk that your use of an actually unlicensed product would result in you incurring liability to the publishers. If you were sued, you would very likely be able to bring the manufacturer into the suit as a third-party defendant, provided, of course, that the manu was still around. That would have the effect of mitigating at least some of your damages. However, I think there is a bit of a catch-22 on that point...if the manu is around to sue, the publisher would almost certainly prefer to sue the manu rather than you. I have always recognized that there is a small but real risk that a rights holder could take issue with the content I use in my karaoke shows. This is the same risk that all KJ's have lived with for 30+ years now whether they knew it or not. I think it is an acceptable risk and I believe I do more than that average host to ensure that I color within the lines. I welcome any rights holder to contact me an take a look at my 7000+ OEM discs and point out what they feel was produced without license or what they feel is counterfeit and I will happily pull it from my library. -Chris |
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| Author: | The Lone Ranger [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
| Is the real reason you would happily remove from you library any material the rights holder objected to, the low risk this would ever happen Chris? If it did happen would you still be as happy?
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| Author: | chrisavis [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
I am generally a law-abiding person. If any rights holder contacts me and says pull it, I will pull it. I suppose "happily" is the wrong term because I would actually not be happy about having to pull it, but I would still do so because it is their right to make the request. I would also try to have a dialog with them to convince them otherwise. I do not see any of this happening though. So I will, by all means, HAPPILY continue to use my content until contacted by someone with some authority that says I can't. -Chris |
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| Author: | The Lone Ranger [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Some of the "Not Licensed For Karaoke" (NLFK List) |
| Does that mean you don't think the investigating manus will give lists to publishers to go after materials other than SC and CB/DTE? That it is just posturing to try and scare hosts into leasing or using their service?
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