Karaoke Forums

Before I ask, please note that I will present a set of conditions that could probably never happen. Therefore, there is absolutely no reason for an emotional response. It's just kind of a teaser.

Say we have a KJ who has pirated some discs- but ONLY sample discs. That is to say, discs such as SC's VPSC series, meant to be given away with VocoPro home machines. Other companies have done the same, I'm just using SC's series for purposes of recognition- NO OTHER REASON.

This series ( I think it had 5 or 6 discs) was never meant to be sold, but given away.

The KJ doesn't buy the home machine, but has copies of all the discs, or has ripped the content of someone else's to his PC. These are the ONLY tracks that the KJ has not gotten through standard means.

OK, we are all agreed that anyone who acquires music through non-standard means is a pirate- let's leave that to the side for now.

The question is: Can this person be successfully prosecuted for PIRACY? I'm not talking about media shifting or trademark infringement, but the theft of the content?

Keep in mind that whatever company produced these types of discs never expected an income from them- they were freebies. At best, they were a way to promote their other products.

The fly in the ointment being one could say since no actual income from sales would have been expected, there is no loss ( no damages). Hence, no crime.

On the other hand, the product was not obtained through the purchase of a karaoke machine.

All of the above is under the assumption that the sampler discs were really just that- promotional discs GIVEN to the machine mfr., and no percentage due from machine sales.

To repeat, this is a unique set of circumstances as presented to ponder for fun, and nothing more. I just happened to get caught in the Throne Room without a book again... There is no real importance attached to an answer and no need to get crazy about it.

Now...your thoughts?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

The disc packs aren't free. They are included in the cost of the machine or are supplemented somewhere else in the chain.
I have bought disc sets like that. Had a Priddis promo pack from karaoke.com that was given with a machine they were selling. I bought the discs from a guy who bought the machine but didn't want the discs. I finally sold them to another bar that was starting out and needed music.
As long as they have original content, I don't see any issues. If they have them on their computer without any original media, then sure why not.
No different than people selling their OOP stuff on e-bay (provided they don't make copies first).

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I think SC might TRY to prosecute you and seek a settlement, but you would win the lawsuit if you didn't give in to the pressure to settle for $5K.

That's the model

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C Mc
KJ, FL

The discs aren't "free" if they are sold along with a player. The cost may be discounted greatly, but they are not free regardless of the sales pitch.

That all depends on what you mean by SUCCESSFULLY:dunce:


The way I see it, if you don't own the original content to go with what's on the HD, you are S.O.O.L. if you are sued by the Manu. Taking the example of the promo sets as an example, let's assume that the song "My Way" is on it (Frank Sinatra version). Now, in my example, let's just say that this is the ONLY version/track of this song that the KJ has (highly unlikely... I think I have 7 versions of this song). Enter the PI.... The PI observes the KJ playing off of a PC/HD. The PI observes "My Way" being played from the Manu version which he is investigating. The PI now reports all of this back to the Manu. The Manu sues. It is my belief that the KJ would be guilty as charged, because he still does not have the original disc.

NOTHING is FREE. When the Manu included the promo set of discs as part of the package for purchasing the machine, they computed that cost into it as well. They may not have actually sold you the promo discs, but they did give you permission to use them. And, in all likelihood, with that permission, came all of the same restrictions that come with you purchasing any of their regular line of discs/product.

A long time ago I bought one of the vary packages in this scenario. The player has passed on to it grave (recycled). I hope that doesn't mean I can't still use the disks. I don't have the receipt anymore but the disks are in my position ( 9/10th of the law ).

1) Thank you for that unemotional reply. The answer is simple. Successful prosecution means the prosecution will win in court. .....And you're calling ME a dunce??

2) The discs are advertised as free- but with the purchase of the machine. Promotional means just that- they are supplied to PROMOTE that manufacturer's product ( again assuming, as in my scenario, that no sale percentage is agreed upon with the mfr.). As for permission to use in a show- NO karaoke produce has the right to grant that permission, even with PURCHASED discs ( which is why we all exist on the sufferance/indifference of the publishers/owners), so the point is moot.

You are still thinking about media shifting, Trademark Infringement and usage, not piracy ( music THEFT).

So I have to take your answer as a no, like Lon's.

To repeat, I don't KNOW which answer is correct, hence the OP. Does anyone think these tracks CAN be used as grounds for a music theft (piracy) suit?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I'm not calling you a dunce... I was making fun of my statement with the use of the dunce emoticon.... I don't know why that 1st one came out as the printed word.





In your example, you mention the below scenario...

I may have confused the issues in my answer to your OP. In my answer to you, the PI has no idea whether the KJ stole those tracks or just media shifted them. Thus, the KJ is being sued for the trademark infringement.

Out of curiosity, has there been any known cases out there regarding a KJ actually being successfully prosecuted for Track Theft (meaning the KJ never purchased anything, yet obtained all the song tracks he/she is using at his/her show via one of those Torrent sites or file-sharing sites)?

Man, I wish we had a separate forum completely dedicated to legalities and piracy questions.

We do.... It's called the "Karaoke Legalities & Piracy, etc..." section of this Forum. Joe just chose to open this Topic Thread in the "Karaoke Discussions" section of the Forum instead.

Maybe a Moderator could move this thread into the correct area, and then delete this post of mine, along with your post about it as well.

perhaps, but all of those are confidential and not allowed to be discussed.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Actually, I just screwed up. I meant to open it in the Legalities section. Sorry...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

That's just my point. If the discs were the kind to which I'm referring, they would have been put in the box with the machine at the factory. They would never have shown up on the receipt to begin with. Several different machine mfrs. did this, not just VocoPro, but Memorex, EK ( Easy Karaoke), RSQ, and others.

Contributing Mfrs. included SC ( VPSC, RSQSC, etc..) CB (CBDD, CBPR, and Etc...), Priddis, Mr. Entertainer, EK, Stellar, and others.

There are actually quite a few discs out there that weren't for retail sale.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Just busting your chops, no worries.

Chop-busting's cool. Okey Dokey then....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."