Karaoke Forums

Regarding super cdg's, specifically the Chartbuster Essential 450's. I have not seen them at the usual online karaoke stores (karaoke.com, Ace,etc.) however I have seen them on ebay stores.
With all the things going on today regarding piracy I was hoping that someone might know if they are Legal or Not.
I have a legal system, and want to keep it that way.
Does know about this...

Most of us feel that if you OWN an original disc from the manufacturer then you are good to go. If you don't own the disc or legal downloads (with receipts), then you are a "pirate". Without "permission", even though you own the disc, some manufacturers may still consider you a technical infringer. As time goes by even the strongest of Manu defenders have softened their view of infringement. Ownership, not possession, is the key here.

I own a set of the CB SCDG's and used them for eight years in my show until my retirement at the end of October. I have my original discs and my paperwork for them. Really I never had to show proof to anyone. As to who could check you or audit your discs, your guess would be a good as mine. Originally PR maintained they had the right to audit these SCDG's even though they are a CAVS product. They have sort of backed off on that claim. CAVS themselves are not auditing their products so who has standing to question the use of the product is still not settled. I called CAVS the maker of the product and they told me that this whole legal process of the manus is just a scam, with racketeering over tones. Selling protection where there is no authority to provide it, since the contents of the tracks belongs to someone else besides the manus. They only license to make their product, and in many cases such as CB they did not pay the proper fees, even though they had assured CAVS they had.

I bought my CB Super CDGs from Chartbuster directly along with tons of regular cds right before the company caved in. OF COURSE they're LEGAL...or i'm suing sombody!

As I remember the story, there were a limited number of official SCDG sets made by CB and they sold out long ago. However someone (the pressing plant?) kept making illegal copies and flooded eBay with counterfeits. I bought mine from eBay not knowing this.

Back when CB was still around they offered (here on Karaoke Scene) to swap these alleged fake sets for official ones so they could use them for forensics/potential lawsuits, etc. So, I contacted them and ended up getting a real set for the cost of the eBay sets. Score!

So...99% chance the CB sets on eBay are more of the endless supply of fakes.

But since the SCDG were supposed to be made for CAVS by Chartbuster which if I recall turned out to made without licensing for that format?, which is why the CAVS lawsuit that ultimately put the final nail in CB coffin.

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I have a complete set of the Essentials 1-6 (180 discs) and pieces of 7-9. I purchased SCDG sets 5 & 6 on Ebay a couple of years ago and they sure look legit to me. The packaging was the most convincing part since it arrived in a very professional shrink wrapped DVD movie type box with all the details written on it. I paid about $40 each.

look at the barcode numbers on the packages, the fakes repeated barcode numbers on the packaging. if your's are real they all have different barcode numbers.

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It's all good!

So Lonman since CB made the product for CAVS it should be up to CAVS to audit the product shouldn't it? I mean after all CB was paid up front and any profit lost would be CAVS loss not CB's right? Then again if the format wasn't licensed it is illegal product isn't it?

I have no idea whether yours are real or not, and they might have been sold at a loss just to get something out of them, but...

The minimum royalty on karaoke songs is about .14 per track, not to mention the fixing fees and other charges.

The CB Essentials discs have 450 tracks each, so the royalties due the publishers would be about $63 for each disc. That tells me either that (a) somebody's taking a pretty big hit on those discs or (b) the publishers didn't get their royalties.

This is not a comment on your use or your operations, just an interesting (to me) point about the economics of that kind of deal.

Don't ask me, I have absolutely no idea nor speculate what they should nor shouldn't do!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Making any insinuations about why something is sold by an entity at any given price is always going to be guesswork at best, and limiting the possibilities to two or three, and, in this case, the two lettered scenarios, might be construed as a biased response. The only thing that could possibly be a fact of the matter in this case is that they were sold at the price they were because they COULD be. Sounds oversimplified, but it is the only certainty, no matter what the reason. Reasons (a) and (b) above could be an AND, OR, NEITHER, or, , less likely one could suppose, NOR situation...

The barcodes are completely different and so are the barcode numbers. It is really unimportant since I own the original cd's too.Thank you James for adding some food for thought, but sometimes people sell at a loss just because it isn't moving quickly enough.

Two good- but equally negating points.

Jim is correct- those SCDGs sold for WAY under cost ( royalties, fees, recording costs and materials)

MrMarog is also 100% right- people will sell at a loss if they feel they must, or if they themselves got a great deal.

Also, if the seller was a karaoke distributor or brick and mortar, they can take a tax write-off on the inventory...

Whatever works, I guess....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

All that is very interesting Bazza, but it still doesn't answer the age old question who if anyone has the legal standing to question whether the product is legal or illegal? Since the proper fees weren't paid in the first place they could all be illegal couldn't they?

Has any KJ been sued for using SCDG's? I would propose that we not worry about it until someone is or until a recall is issued. It just isn't worth worrying about.

-Chris

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-Chris

You mean like the sought for injunction by EMI against SC Gem series? Does it mean that it is time for GEM licensed hosts to be concerned Chris?

In my world, "Fake" = Counterfeit = Illegal. Fees or no fees.

We all know the Lone Ranger "Bizzaro World" is different. One is encouraged to steal there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarro_World

When did I ever encourage anyone to steal anything Bazza? In this commercial karaoke Wild West environment you can't tell the good guys from the bad guys is my point. Just like in the Old West many times the law deputized former bad men to go after other bad men. Just like the mayor or city council was in with the illegal element terrorizing the citizens. Watt Earp had interests in gambling houses and brothels as well as being the town marshal. In much the same way the manus who have opted for this legal solution themselves have been guilty of if not paying all their fees, or at least trying to do an end run around the copyright laws. These same manus try to bust hosts for the same offense. Now tell me which world is more Bizzaro?

Ah....but it actually is pretty easy to tell the good guys from the bad guys - In my case, just look at the cover of my song books. Or even look me up on the Sound Choice web site. Or just ask me to produce my discs.

In reality it is very easy to tell the good guys from the bad guys.....just ask. The good guys have nothing to hide.

-Chris

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-Chris