Karaoke Forums

This is basically directed to Mr. Harrington for his input but anyone can chime in...

In the past, I have contacted both SC and Chartbuster about pirates and the bars they're working in my area. Yet, after many years, no one has ever came out and they still continue to illegally operate today. I understand that SC can't be everywhere and that's where we can help.

My proposal is this:

Let us help. Tell us what to do. We'll go in and serve them on your behalf. I know, many of us would like to, or have friends that would love the job. Talk to us. Send us the materials we need and let us go to work.

Pay us a fee for everyone we nail.

Benefits: You'll save money and make money. And, we will be helping rid pirates in our areas which means more jobs for us and a little extra bonus. Everybody wins.

It's very frustrating to see the same people still working 5 years later after being turned in. Let's turn this around.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

No. This could cause problems of everyone ratting out everyone, and may cause vendettas.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

i see you having a hard time getting a gig at a venue you serve and if they are as rampant as you say....
that would put most venues out of your reach.
that owuld make it look to the owners even more like mafia tactics than it already does.
unfortunately this is why so many people here have been so against SC, pirates are reported, but not one has ever been gone after. i did the same as you with the inclusion of pointing Kurt to the venue (literally standing there pointing at is as we spoke) and they are still going....completely untouched.
you are not the only one to notice this fact, but i think us going in just makes us look bad.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Besides, investigations for lawsuits against even the most egregious of illicit activities requires that all the ducks be in a row, or risk having the entire case be shot down. Having people investigate others in their same line of work is not a good approach to gathering evidence to put before a judge...

Sorry, but I totally disagree with your response. Whether you're in the same line of work is immaterial.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Then have your friends do it. I'm sure that every KJ has at least one friend that would just love the job. And this way, the KJ is out of the picture.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

It is very frustrating when most of us have called to report piracy and nothing has ever been done about it. There needs to be investigators in every county of every state, so that when someone is reported, they can get right out.

At this point, the dice are stacked in the pirate's favor. Most will never get caught and will continue to operate illegally for the rest of their lives.

OK, maybe not such a great idea for us to get directly involved BUT... if we had investigators in our counties, we could tell them where the pirates are. We would still be helping.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I wouldn't want to get involved in that. I mind my business, and run my shows. I have my own crowds, and I run my show legally. I don't need anyone looking over my shoulder. I don't want to look over anyone else's shoulder. There are a few of us around here. I am the one of few legal ones, that I know of. I buy all my songs. Most of the others have a hard drive full of stuff. BUT, I am friends with a few of the others, and we kind of have some unspoken rules. We don't mess with each others' shows, and all is happy.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

What you're saying is part of the problem. We know someone is stealing but we look the other way. Why shouldn't we get involved?

They are stealing from YOU and hurting the industry. If you have the chance to help to do something about this, you should. Remember, you paid money for your music, they stole it. Why would you let them get away with that? They're only hurting YOU. Remember, nice guys finish last.

I just don't get it. We all b*tch about piracy but nobody is willing to do anything about it. Everyone is just full of excuses.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

So, let me leave you with this...

1. You need to do your part. Let bar owners know their KJ is a pirate and are putting themselves at risk of a lawsuit.

2. Turn in anybody you know is a pirate.

And to those KJ's who don't care...

There is no reason for you to read, comment, or post in the Legalities & Piracy thread.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I'm very sympathetic to what's being expressed in this thread. Nothing would please me more than to be able to head out to every area and put a significant dent in the piracy problem.

The problem with doing so is resources. Having KJs who are willing to do some of the legwork to identify potential targets and provide us with information that we can use to go after pirates is helpful, but that by itself is not the problem. In fact, we have many cooperative KJs who are willing to do the things you suggest in many more areas than we presently target.

But that's not enough to enable us to proceed. We have to have local attorneys who are willing to work on contingent fee. State private investigator laws limit the range of people we can hire to do the necessary investigations. And filing lawsuits costs money, with an uncertain return. Even when our case is plain and simple, it can take many months or even years to resolve, and even if we're successful, we still have to collect.

Now that the incredible time-suck that was the EMI/Sony litigation is now over, we are devoting all the resources we can to anti-piracy work. We've signed up several new attorneys in the last month. Hopefully we'll be able to hit your area soon.

In the meantime, you can request antipiracy materials to be sent to you. These are brochures that talk about our various programs, and they are mainly targeted at venues that hire outside KJs, to encourage them at least to sign up for our Safe Harbor program. You can take this information to various venues to help educate them and to encourage them to sign up. Just hit the website for contact information, and we'll be happy to send you some materials.

so far that has done nothing but make the legal ones blackballed.


done so, and the lawsuits get filed one after another and those reported are not on it. other hosts NOT reported are on it, but none of the ones reported have ever been hit.


not caring is one thing, knowing it will do no good at all and actually hurt our own business TO do something like that is a totally different thing.

with that....
do i want pirates hit...damn right! i pay for all my music, i do things right and want others to do so as well. so why am i not jumping up and down to support SC? I DID THAT ALREADY...and here we are 4 1/2 years later and not only are the reported hosts still going...but growing. for example, the one i reported to Kurt, we stood outside and i pointed to the venue and said they were there tomorrow night, not only are they still there, but the very venue that Kurt and i sat in for several hours doing my audit is now being hosted by that very pirate (i left there a few years back of my own volition). resources?...would it not make more sense to send the "resources" to investigate the hosts reported by the certified hosts before some random joe schmo host that was not reported?
to me THAT would be SC supporting the certified good guys. so far the support has been 100% one sided. my opinion can change if i began to see anything in the way of that support, but to go out of my way to list and report the show locations and dates of the pirates when it has been shown that 0 of those reports will be used and the "investigators" will go to some other hosts, that any of the hosts i talk to in Phoenix and surrounding areas have never heard of, is rather wasteful and pointless. if i had seen ANY follow up at all i might not feel this way, but to date no one here has seen that happen (not that has been stated at least and many been vocal to back up my statement, yourself included) and see no reason to believe it will.
Jim has kept asking for ideas... here you go
if a certified host or GEM licensee reports a hosts it goes to the top of the list. you get 6 reports from certified hosts in nowhere Idaho and 1 from Orlando Florida, your resources should go to Idaho next. asking hosts to support SC is not wrong, but those hosts doing the right thing and supporting you should get that support returned. if that support is returned to the hosts, it is only a matter of making sure your efforts are directly supporting your certified hosts and GEM owners that are giving you the bone.
Can you imagine if hosts saw that getting certified did more than keep a law suit away but actually helped them? how many more would sign up if they knew that SC's resources would be turned against the pirates DIRECTLY AFFECTING THEM AND COSTING THEM MONEY? i get certified and report someone across the street in the state capital Phoenix with 150,000 tracks and some no name KJ in a boondocks nowhere town of 15,000 gets sued. that does not affect me in the least.
does that make sense?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Mr. Harrington, Paradigm Karaoke raises a good point and he's right. In my area alone, I'm the only legal KJ. And I could tell you who the pirates are. Why can't you do what he proposes? Go after the pirates that WE report in our areas. In which case, everybody wins.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Actually, NOBODY is stealing from me. I run my own shows, in my own areas. I have my own music that I buy. I let nobody use my equipment except my girlfriend, who I am training to help me out. I have some of the local KJs that come to my shows, and I go to their shows. I am not going to be the one who causes trouble in my neighborhood.

As far as my weekend venue, I am already filled to capacity, three nights a week, so NOBODY is stealing business from me. If ANYTHING I am taking business from the illegal KJs in the area because I run a better show. I replaced the same guy at BOTH my venues, just because I offer a fun show. He has, since, left the business.

I STILL have a relatively small collection of songs, compared to the Hard drive Jocks. I do not use much SC, and pretty much NO CB. I have ONLY the Dave Matthews disc from CB. I bought it for ME, since I like to sing Dave Matthews. So, I am not worried about what anyone else is doing. My customers are happy with me, and my venue owners are VERY happy with me. The thieves out there do nothing to my business.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

This sounds like an excellent way to either get beat up or maybe, in the right situation, shot. Let's leave the investigations to the folks who do that for a living and stay out of it. Reporting it is one thing, "helping" out is another animal.

DJs and Trivia companies have the same issues, I know, I am one. There is no shortage in any of my areas of DJs with 100,000 songs or trivia hosts with a handful of questions freshly printed off some internet site, yet I still continue to do a great business with all my game shows 7 nights a week. Problem is, I don't have anybody to run to and say, "Make them stop, it's just not fair."

So I suck it up, run the best business I can, and put the money in the bank every week. It's amazing what you can do if you aren't making excuses. Would I like to see karaoke pirates out of my market? Yes. It would make my life easier and maybe even have overall entertainment rates increase. Have I tried to help by reporting them? Yes I have, because most of the pirates I know are no-good sneaks and if they aren't pirating karaoke, they'll be doing something else to get an edge on me.

Here is the problem I see with YOU (the KJ) going into a Venue and stating that piracy is going to hurt their business, and then explaining that THEY (the Venues) may get sued as a result of hiring a Pirate (by showing them all of SC's/PEP's) anti-piracy literature: YOU (the KJ) will be labelled as a trouble-maker, and the word will spread from Venue to Venue that YOU (the KJ) should not be hired. It may be a childish point-of-view, but it can be interpreted this way:
KJ: If you don't get rid of that Pirate, you better watch your back because you might get sued. I'm telling SC/PEP because these Pirates are hurting me.
Venue A: Get the F*** outta here! We don't need no trouble-makers coming in and threatening us.
Venue A to Venue B: Hey, guess what! Some A-hole is trying to muscle his way into getting me to hire him. Watch out for him. He's threatening to have some company I never heard of sue me. I'll be damned if I'm gonna hire him. What nerve he has!!! He sounds like he could be big trouble for you as well. His name is XXXXXX. Let the others know about him too.
Venue B: Thanks for the heads up. I'll pass around the word.



And I believe I have commented on this very thing a few years back. I've posted that it's one thing to win your case, but now, how do you enforce getting that payment... especially from someone who doesn't have any (seizable) assets in the first place?

i did not go about it quite as you say Cue, but the result is exactly that.
out here they were hit hard with the notifications from SC a few years ago and anyone coming in certified by SC is seen as the troublemaker.


i have been swung at, chased out with bats (or can crunchers as the bartenders call them) and even guns pulled on me over this.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

If the KJ down the street is hurting your bottom line due to their illegal practices, go sue them yourself for unfair competition. If you can prove they are harming your business because of their illegal downloads, you'll win appropriate damages.

Otherwise, why do you think Soundchoice owes you their resources to help your individual problem?

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Oh course you would have to provide evidence that they have not paid for their music, how exactly would you go about that?

well I know what constitutes as proof for me, but i doubt it would hold up in a court of law. All you have to do is look at the graphics.

The most obvious example being the eagles disc. Every single show that I have ever been to has the EXACT same crappy graphics, which glitch in the EXACT same places, right down to the second