planet_bill @ Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:08 am wrote:
:clapper:
What are you people talking about? I've been away all day and come back to all this?
! Have another shot on me everybody! Everyone is talking in non-specifics and generalizations about terms and events that are actually undefined (such as Tards). We also don't know exactly who that member class is.
As the curtain falls....Bravo!! I am entertained. All the drama! :clapper:
All of you make up a great group. I'll be back to post on karaoke, and non-karaoke post, and to submit songs as usual. I guess the dice will fall as may.
Good night!
Bill
Ok, oddly I have read all the posts of this thread all over again. Trying to really get the essence of it. At first it appears that everyone was just reacting and overreacting to Jeff's initial topic post. Then what I said above came into play as people took various comments for the worst, and some I believe became a bit offended, others confused, and well...if you've read it you know what I mean. I think I have some clarity on this whole thing now and it isn't anything bad.
I think a lot of you took what Jeff(ieoke) originally said as offensive, just trying to stir up trouble, or being an egomaniac thinking the entire forum revolved around him or something. However I think what Jeff was attempting (and I haven't spoken to him to clarify), was to bring some order to the forum, and some peace. Apparently he, and a number of others feel that some folks have been slandered, or belittled. On the other end of the argument there are those that feel that their site has been screwed up because various people (insert reference here) keep breaking into their threads and conversations and prevent quality conversations from taking place.
Reviewing the posts it appears both sides are correct. The short end of all this is some have agreed to have nothing but karaoke posts from now and whereas others agree there is no problem with karaoke, and non-karaoke posts as long as "peeps" don't jump in and interrupt serious karaoke conversations. I agree (personally) that there is no reason why a karaoke forum can't have both. Let's face it what do we talk about when we go to a karaoke club and sing? We talk about just almost anything - so same should be true here. I agree that some general rules should exist (they do - called 'no spamming'), or perhaps a new structure within the forum could be erected to facilitate just karaoke discussion. I have no problem with that either.
Anyway, like I say, I don't think Jeff is getting any thrills or entertainment out of this thread. Knowing him I know that he is the type to want to keep things straightforward, and a simple solution. I think he'd thought it a good idea that rather than have various individuals continue to ramble and bicker, and others reply in jest - whole thing being a bit contentious, that it would be best to just put the subject up so everyone could talk about it, discuss it, come to some conclusions, and agreements. For this I do have to give him a hand :clapper: because I think he is really just trying to help, and trying to help make it a better, more enjoyable forum for everyone.
So, a few came to some agreement, but my guess is we need more direct discussion as a group, and with the administration about how we want this board to be run, any changes in structure we would like, and proper moderation based on what we all agree to. Obviously we never will be in a place where everyone agrees all the time. But general consensus and harmony can be reached. If people want some changes then let's start threads to discuss those changes, and then put them to a vote. [Other forums I belong to you can vote on thread topics - similar to a poll.].
Additionally I noted a few problems during this thread where people's feelings may have gotten hurt due to misunderstandings, or misinterpretation. Everyone please remember that quality, meaningful communication is difficult on the net through email, chat, forums, because we don't hear the intonations in each others voices, and we can't see each others expressions. Emoticons help, but sometimes they are too polarized one way or the other to really tell if we are being insulted or just laughed with. A few examples:
Michael brought up a somewhat derogatory line about the use of the word 'tards', and it appeared Jeff thought it was directed at him. Jeff appeared to get a bit insulted, Jeff countered, Michael countered with the idea that he shouldn't always consider every comment that wasn't labelled as directed at him to imply that it was. I agree. Looking at the context it appears that MJK may have just been supporting Jeff's previous statement where Jeff was talking about the unacceptable slandering of members by using the word 'Tard'. I could be wrong here. Maybe MJK was stabbing a bit at Jeff - but I agree that if a comment doesn't say that it's directed at you, then don't assume it is. This can solve a lot of online discussion difficulties.
Next after Chuck, Jeff, Knightshow, and others had resolved some issues and differences - supposedly / potentially for all . Suzy of Full House Entertainment popped in right in the middle of everything, and just kind of blondly restated everything like no one had been discussing. She proposed what she preferred. Jeff apparently thought this was a bit funny and made a simple joke. However Suzy became apparently really offended. IMO she grossly overreacted and misjudged what Jeff had said. Perhaps Jeff, as he earlier stated was also a bit to aggressive in joking with her like that. Regardless, here assumptions of intent caused a problem and perhaps a bit too little patience with others.
Then of course we have James that came in to say that people have been betrayed as others have destroyed their nice quality forum, and now he is going to leave. Note that every forum or email list group I have belonged to you always get these people that threaten to leave, or just say they are leaving because of X & Y. Good by cruel world!
Finally, you have Morgan and others that just kind of broke in and did exactly what everyone was complaining about and that is interfering with threads by posting nonsensical jokes in the middle of people's conversations. Now I'm not saying that I have a problem with that, but others might. Now however if you consider you have ten or 20 people all doing that at the same time, then well you can see many folks points of view about how threads quickly become toast.
Finally, finally, I guess you have me coming in late to the game reading all of it after drinking a margarita earlier
and deciding everyone was a bit off. Well, a lot of that is true, but a lot of you had good points as well. The curtain fell and...
So to summarize. Jeff was just trying to help improve a situation that he saw others in distress about. This is typical Jeff, as he is a bit of a knight in shining armor at times, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It takes nerve and steel to stick your head up so that people can throw their slings and arrows at you. Was he the best moderator in this thread? - Perhaps not, but he did get some people talking and perhaps he pointed out the fact that we need a real solution here. Then again, this is just a few of us in this discussion. The majority of the forum has not spoken, or voted. That's why I say that if anyone really cares, then rather than grumble or call people names, or leave, or whatever we should have open discussion about the direction of this forum. We need buy in and we need support for that direction. Some of you have already addressed the issues and others suggested good ideas. To solve this the administration will have to agree, and change whatever structure, or rules, or moderation tactics are needed to make those suggestions and decisions a reality.
[Disclaimer: I probably left something out here, or a few things. Someone may think I insulted you - I did not intend to. Also, I do not claim to know all the answers to these dilemmas but thought that where these issues sat, were not a final good place to leave them. It appeared that for whatever progress was made, some folks got their 'feathers ruffled'. Hopefully some of what I have said have clarified some of the issues for some of you. I do not claim to speak for all of you, or even some - this is just my interpretation of things. PS: Also don't sit there and think 'hey this big Planet dude can type a lot and makes big wampum sense - let's make him a moderator'. I don't want to be a moderator, or President of the US. I'm more like the man behind the curtain in The Wizard of Oz.
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