Karaoke Forums

Okay. . . I feel like a dufus. I just came from SS and realized there was a third catagory, "Listen only." This whole time I thought you could only comment on the "critique" catagory and only listen to the "just for fun" and not comment. I take everything back I said about socializing and the like. Suddenly it all makes sense. I still don't have the heart to give negative comments. I hear subs all the time that really, really need to be critiqued but like everyone here is saying...well, you know. If people submit there, they're fair game. If they can't take it here, they're just in denial and sooner or later someone down the road will give 'em a reality check.

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I don't like the term "judge".  Reason being it tends to carry the stigma that one is on a pedestal assigning value.  In a subjective area I'll offer my opinion which isn't in any way binding or necessarily fact-based.  "Judge" is a term that evokes others to take a defensive stance.  At a dog show you can judge and maybe get away with it, in a contest you can judge and tick off certain people... In critique it's my opinion as someone familiar with an area but I might very well NOT qualify to "judge" because my opinion is only my fact in an area of aesthetics.

Semantics DOES matter !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Well, I haven't subbed anything yet - don't have any way to record myself at the moment - but if and when I do, I would want an HONEST critique.  However, a critique should be tactful, and include positive points as well as negative points.  I cannot improve what I am doing if all I ever hear is "Oh, that was so great."  I don't want a "That sucked," of course.  

Frankly, I'm likely to be harsher on myself than anyone else critiquing me - another reason I haven't subbed anything, and why I may never sub anything.  I rarely think anything I have done is "good enough."  I'll find fault with things most people won't notice...or things that are perfectly fine, but I'm convinced I could have "done better."

Of course, even a critique is somewhat subjective.  Sometimes a person just doesn't like a quality in your voice, the way you phrase, or, heck, just the song you chose!  I know I tend to be harsher when listening to someone else sing one of "my" songs than I would be listening to someone do something I don't sing.

If someone posts something in the area for critiquing, then they should expect to be critiqued.  If you put yourself out for that, you must expect that not everyone is going to like what you do, and someone is going to have something negative to say or a suggestion.  If you can't take that without getting offended, then just post for fun and don't leave it open for critique.  Also, just because someone has a suggestion or negative comment, it doesn't mean they're RIGHT.  If you go off pitch, and someone points that out, well, that isn't subjective.  But if someone doesn't like that you opted for an alternate note, or that you put more emphasis on a particular phrase or word, well, that's opinion and you have to make the call on whether you think they have a valid point or you like the way you do it.

Bottom line, you can't please everyone.  There is no such thing as a "perfect" performance.  There will always be something you feel you could do better.  You have to do what makes you happy and what feels right to you.  Before you sub and leave it open to critique, ask yourself, are you doing it because you just want to hear nice things, or are you doing it so you can get honest opinions and make improvements?

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

To Steve...Ok...I agree...I'll re-phrase..I'm pretty much qualified to "CRITIQUE" the styles I mentioned

To Morgan...Vik...there you go with that modesty BS again... of COURSE you know what key you sing in! You may or may not be able to say "oh- that's in "f" " but I've heard you do way to many songs for you to say that you don't know how to flip a key up or down( as needed) You're plenty qualified..not only because you are a paid professional singer...but because you also have the tact tempered by truth- to point out to people "what " they can change vs what they "need" to change. There is a difference and knowing how to distinguish between the two would be a point that would make or break a person critiques as either useful or overwhelming.

To operakitty you pretty much feel the same as most of us. I once asked Gladys Knight if she ever heard a recording of herself and thought" That's exactly right" She laughed and said "Lord child...I'd bet angels themselves would have doubts about songs they sing to glorify God almighty. No- I have Never heard a recording of myself that I didn't see something that could be better" She also went on to say something along the lines of you'd never get out of the studio with a single recording if you expected it to sound perfect to everyone. So other than some mixing difficulties that CAN be tweeked...After I find myself nitpicking a single note that's when I know it's time to "just let it be" And when I put something up for a critique- it's because I realise that I do not have the objectivity to discern a few things. There are some songs I absolutely adore...but they just don't suit my voice---or the way that I sang them wasn't as good as the rest of my repertoire, It took some blunt words from people who had my best interests at heart to point that out, And it hurt- but they weren't trying to hurt me- they were trying to help me be the best I could be. And those songs were holding me back for some reason or another. When I sub on SS I want to hear what singers from all walks of life think. If I sub an R&B song that I get tons of compliments on from country singers...then -hopefully- that means I have found  song that not only suits my voice- but also appeals to a wide demographic of people. That's what I look for in material I put in my show. It's uber expensive to have a song arranged and charted - so I'd prefer to test the waters somewhere like this before I go to that expense for nothing. But either way- I'll be looking for your first sub girlie( wink) Even though I rarely perform "opera" I do love to hear anyone that can do it well...(assuming that you name holds significance to your preferred style of music)

Tink... you're gonna love audacity. It takes a bit to get the levels think right...but overall it's very easy and all those problems you have had will be gone. And your hubby is a sweetie to have even thought to get you recording software!

This topic may have been hashed over several times on here but I never saw those...I'm enjoying that posts from everyone...yall are bringing up some very good points! Thanks!

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I agree,  the toughest Critiques I've given have actually been the handful of songs I thought would actually qualify as "10"s.   If I feel I'd like to rank it,  I feel I must be able to vindicate the rank I'd assign regardless of how good the composition sounds to me.  A rank without comments to me is quite useless

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

the rank removed would make things a lot fairer in my opinion

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Agreed,  Rank sets up a competitive atmosphere for some which unfortunately gives a few members a different objective when subbing. Rather than sharing, some compete.  Why must there be rank or publicly viewable critiquing at all for SS to be fun ?   Why is it important to display who's better than whom ?  What difference does that make ?  It creates a contest and detracts from "fun and casual" for some. If SS is to be "fun for all",  why acknowledge some as better than others ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Well said you two. That's what I've wanted to say, but couldn't get it straight in my mind. Most of us are here just for fun. I can see the ranking system bringing a competitive atmosphere. I get very uncomfortable if I feel I'm being competed against. It's too much pressure. I just want to have fun. I don't compete in karaoke contests and I wouldn't compete here either.

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I hate competition to be honest, for the reasons you mentioned. I'm here to escape  real life stress, not walk into more stress.  I'm here to share and chat not to compete. I did my time in the pro music area, and barely came out liking music at all, but I was able to leave that crap behind me. Music is now a hobby, no longer a profession. Even playing chess, I won't involve myself with viciously competitive people because it's lose/lose.. It's a game,  you win some, you lose some but when somebody loses it need not boost the winners ego at the expense of being "better than the person who lost".  When it's "in your face" that so-and-so has many people giving them a 9.6 average rank, but for some reason they give you an 8.8 rank, what good comes of this to you, a singer who's singing for you and might not wish to see who's better or worse or in the case of SS.. more popular !  Which is part of the problem,  too much in the way of politics becomes a focus too. "rank bombing" if you fall out've a political circle,  sabotaging another because they are now friendly with so-and-so who hates so-and-so...  Why does SS need rank and other public means of people hurting one-another even though the majority don't ?  The fact that some do is still a problem, the fact that some are too immature to handle an environment that public vote my wish to change anyway might be reason to see if administration might consider changing a system IF the vast majority would rather it be adjusted, and in doing this it wouldn't affect site membership. I really don't understand how "rank" system can coexist with "stress free" when dealing with artist ego which IS a factor to consider.  Still,  the response can easily be "People have the option of submitting without rank" and this too is true of course.  I dunno, tough to believe adults can get like this,  but I get like this too and lose perspective at times...  :confused:

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Ha!  I may have an old recording lying around somewhere...expect disclaimers...*laugh*  Yes, my name does hold some significance in my style - I am a trained opera singer, although I do more musical theatre than opera.

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

That requires a person to be in very good physical shape all around doesn't it ?  It's supposed to be rigorous.  I've heard many say Pavoratti is really endangering himself by being so out've shape and putting his body thru what Opera takes,  He's not the athlete he once was.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Yes, it does.  I've been dealing with a serious back injury since February.  The most difficult aspect of that for me has been that it has pretty much stopped my being able to sing.  I cannot physically support my voice.  Parts of my body I never realized I used when I sang - because I just did it - are now stopping me from singing.  I can still do some light pop things and "easy" musical theatre, but the Vengence Aria and Adele's Laughing Song are definitely on the shelf for now.

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

I personally would welcome honest critiques. If someone does critique, how about pointing out what is good in addition to what could stand to be improved? I also agree that ranking, especially without comments, tends to be quite meaningless But this is just my humble opinion..

When I first logged on I think I gave out 1 or 2 ranks- but then when I gave someone who I consider to be a great singer a "9"  then got a load of "what" people were giving "10" to I stopped ranking. I don't even go there now. I think it's useless...I do think the 3 categories should stay "C" for tell me good and bad(tactfully) "J" where you can leave commentsbut  just keep them fun, and "L" for listen only.

To opera Kitty ......Adelles Laughing song...I remember that!!."You amuse me ah ha ha ha ha ha ha //oh how funny ah ha ha....) .I used to love the telephone aria too! I'm probably not in the beat shape of my life but I joke that I still have the "Arnold Scwartzennager" vocal chords( the only muscles in my body that are still "In shape" ...though I'm gonna have to find a new comparision...politics has weraked havoc on ole Arnies physique! I'm saying I got saggy chords if I say that now ....too much already saggin for me to push it with that analogy!  LMAO

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Adele's Laughing song is the first aria I learned...when I was 15...still one of my favourites.  I don't know the Telephone Aria....I have to go look it up now!  LOL Hmmmm....a better comparison than the governator...well, Hulk Hogan still seems to be in great shape!

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

I never have given a rank.

All I ever wanted was someone to tell me what they thought.  



I disagree somewhat...
I can see how competition makes some nervous.  It does me too.  But everyone that has upgraded their accounts so they might get a chance to be on the radio are competing with each other whether they like it or not IMO.  They should use every tool at their disposal to be the best they can be.

I know there are so many huge talents around here, I don't think I can compete anyways.  I do think however that in order to be able to rank someone, you should at least  have subbed songs.

I can understand what some are saying about the ranking system though.  I have not been around long enough to see the cut throat wars.  But this is the internet and on some boards, people can be very vicious, they go for the juggler every time.
Not me though, I try to be polite.  So in that instance I can see where ranking might have a down side.  To have a panel of judges for this, however cool an idea, would take up a lot of time and I sure don't have enough time for that.  Heck I barely can find the time to record songs, let alone spend a week mixing/mastering so they sound good on a boombox.

All the cut throat stuff might come grinding to a halt if when you added a rank, your name showed up with it  Anonymous ranking is a bad Idea...

Wouldn't bother me at all to have a rank or not....my rank is almost 10....way too high IMO.

I am just here to have fun.  But I also would like to do subs that I feel are the best of my ability and suit my voice. Especially since on this site you are wide open to the whole world and anyone can Google you and see your personal info.  Sometimes it helps to have a few opinions other than yourself.

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Imagination is more important than knowledge.

Knowledge is limited.

Imagination encircles the world...

you can vouch for me murlin..I have been very honest with you. I told you which songs were OK...which one REALLY suited you...and which songs -while not my personal choice- would go over well at a karaoke show- which is what you said you were looking for.  You have also taken each comment(I hope) without any hard feelings...and I have also noticed a few more people venturing out of the fluff box and being a bit more honest with others. Hats off ot you- people like YOU who request critiques then don't get bent out of shape when they get them are helping to make changes. All we can do is keep it out there as an issue so that people -hopefully- oen their eyes a little to the fact that buring your head in the sand does NOT make you a better singer. I've also been wondering.,..you gone to any shows latelt? If so how did the songs go over in a live venue??  :oh yeah:

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I went to your website and I was VERY impressed.  The fact that a pro like you and others have complimented me, makes this old dog feel 10' tall..I am just at a loss for words..


No mam...  not for lack of want, or gutz though(you guys helped with the confidence part)...just have been working my butt off and been to tired ...so far I'm just a closet karaoker... well except for that one time...

My wife is a nurse and she has to work most weekends, but she is off this weekend and perhaps I can get a chance to.

I am still working up my song list...I need at least 4 or 5 that I feel comfortable with in each genre....well at least rock and country...

I am going to try to record a couple subs tomorrow....a couple oldies but goodies...

PS...Thanks for being honest...I took no offense at anything you or anyone said....

After all, that is what "C" is for...right???

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Imagination is more important than knowledge.

Knowledge is limited.

Imagination encircles the world...

You got that "C" definition down...but one more thing...trust me you don't need 10 songs to do at a show...2 country and 2 rock are plenty. You'll blow 'em out!  :oh yeah:  so seriously go if you get the chance- you've been working too hard not to show off a little if the opportunity comes!

Oh and thanks for the web page hit...glad you liked it!  :hug:

Paula

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Paula, with the talent you have if is obvious that you would know what you are talking about when providing a critique.  While I wouldn't consider myself as being qualified to give suggestions and advice to another singer, I do think I can hear when notes are sung off key and would be willing to bring that to the attention of the singer in my comments (not for minor infractions, but depending how the whole song performance was affected).  Howver, SS does seem to look down on negative comments and so, I usually just go onto the next song without leaving a comment.  Personally I don't think that helps the singer at all, but it seems to be how the majority want the comments.

I would always prefer a truthful comment to one that is fluffed up or a direct praise-back response.

One thing that concerns me a lot is when I see a comment praising the performance of a song I feel has been sung very well and then I see the same person giving similar praise to another singer who is really quite off-key in many parts of their song.  To me it makes all of that person's comments quite meaningless and I can only treat them as fluff!