Karaoke Forums

Quote by Connie:

For example, the old DK 1-99 discs are often lower keyed than Sound Choice versions.  

I fully agree, in fact, SC is often on the wrong key compare with the original  

Of course changing song key is cheating.  It's defined within
the definition of Karaoke


Key assigned required as Original
 key everytime


 So,  How can any reasonable person think modulating from original key isn't
 Cheating ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

 Oh....you're good Kappy!

I really don't know about the cheating thing. I do know the music seems to sound different to me when it's changed, and then I can't find the right intro to start with if it's live.
For example, a lady at karaoke one night was going to sing a Stone Temple Pilots song....I think it was "Plush".
It started out in the wrong key for sure....just didn't sound right.
Then the kj re-adjusted it and it was perfect. I gave the lady a thumbs up on it, and she went on to do the song.
I guess it depends on what type of music it is as to how it will affect the total sound?

Plush I like..  Every so often a band comes out with compositions that are pretty much a throwback to the classic rock genre style... STP, Black Crowes, and a few other bands have done so in the recent few decades... That video to Soundgartens Black Hole Sun freaks me out though  Is that not the weirdest video...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

If you think of adjusting key as cheating, maybe you should look at it this way: consciously changing the key to make a song sound better would probably not be considered cheating (you're making the song better!); changing key just to make a song easier to sing, without regard of making the song sound better, could be seen as cheating.

Realistically, It is ONLY cheating if judging Criteria is that the singer must sing the song in "original artists" key (and I have yet to EVER know of a reason that transposing is considered "cheating" in a music setting)..  Even the original artists as they age transpose down to adjust.  For that reason transposing a songs pitch IS NOT cheating.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I love that song, but I don't think I've ever seen the 'Black Hole Sun' vid. I'll have to go look it up on youtube.

Edit:  :shock: Uh yeah... just watched it and that video freaked me out a little.. but I think its about people smiling and being oblivious to all the screwed up things in the world... but who knows? heh anyway... back to key changes.

That video to Soundgartens Black Hole Sun freaks me out though   Is that not the weirdest video...

I haven't seen that video! I need to check it out!

But please, don't check out my rendition of Black Hole Sun in the SS.....I was wasted after a whole day of beer and sun, and thought I was doing a good job on it......it SUCKS!! I just left it up cause everyone commented on it. Can't be rude now.  
I just did a Metallica song though for the first time ever!  LOL  :wave:

Is the process of what's being done in the black hole sun video called "Morphing" ?  I'm not too computer savvy.   I assumed black hole sun was a bad acid trip version of how a black holes density would distort and instantly destroy everything subjected to it.

I never analyzed it any further than that... It just made me think of a VERY bad LSD experience a person might have

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Yes, it's called 'morphing'. It can be done to ordinary pictures with a program called 'Kai's Power Goo' (among many others). I've even seen a free java program online you can use to morph faces, but it didn't work very well for me at the time. Heck, who knows what was in those guys' heads when they did that video. Maybe nothing at all. Sticky song though.

See, now-adays people are more used to seeing such tricks with morphing programs, but when SG released that MTV video such morphing was not yet mainstream.. That video when it first came out on MTV was REALLY freaky given what wasn't typical computer alteration given the time.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

man that Adam can sing ANY key...hes amazing !

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Gladly helping Kappy to become cyber immortal !!

i believe that changing the key is a great thing cause it usually makes an overdone cover tune sound fresh and new. i never touch the key however. if i cant sing a song in whatever key its in on the backing i move on. only because not a lot of software out there retains the warmth of the original when you raise or lower pitch..i have the curse of an honest ear with altercations of sound (although those of you who have heard me sing might have aheard a few clunkers out of this mouth )
but paula, i know you do a wide variety of stuff on a pro stage and i totally support your opinion cause it makes for more variety in a show...

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Gladly helping Kappy to become cyber immortal !!

try watching Frank Zappas "Baby Snakes" video on mushrooms sometime...

or any Tool video on nothing....

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Gladly helping Kappy to become cyber immortal !!

I definitely agree on that.  One size does NOT fit all! Anything less than your own style/key is simply an imitation.  Imagine Ted Nugent doing “The Star Spangled Banner” in the same style and key as Beyonce! Both rock but in their own way on the same song.

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In response to Dumbdrums- I guess is does make for a more interest8ng show- but the funny thing is **most** male singers- especially true tenors like Don Henley, Stevie Wonder, Peabo Bryson, James Ingram etc- their key is "perfect" for me- it's the FEMALE singers who drive me CRAZY! I have to lower EVERYTHING that Natalie Cole, Aretha Franklin, Barbara Streisand, Celine Dion, and Most of Jennifer Holidays stuff- down at least 2 - usually 3. Every band I work with has commented that "I sing in GUY keys" Yet there are thos singer like Frank Sinatra, and Tony Bennet- I can't even do their arrengements. The original key is eithe too high or too low( depending on whatthr song is) If I switch them I usually have to go 4 half steps then either sing it an octave higher- or lower- again depending  the song...so to do their songs I have to alter the tracl so much that it sounds twerped. It's just easier to find a different artists arrangement.  :whistle:

But I will change a key faster I change underwear or shoes( once a day for those items-wink) My song list seriously quadrupled when I got my key changer..it also opened up whole new arenas of genres for me too. Key changes area good thing! not only for "making the song fit my voice" but I love changing them tp alter the mood of the song- Everyons is used to hearing "reasons" originally by Earth wind & fire done like Phillip Bailey would sing it. I was working with their keyboard player once and he suggested that we lower it and losw it down and go for smokey vocals rather than the high power rendition of the original- It goes over very well in live audiences. I even lowered the origial version down 3 and recorded it in my sub list( wink) I Like the way it's different from the EWF version....I think it was a good learning experience for me as a vocalist too- I woud never have thought about it had that piano player not come up with it- but now whenever I hear a song I think about how "I" want to sing it...and try to find arrangements and keys that fit whatever that is. Kind of mixes things up a bit...makes it fresh. ...well at least i HOPE it does

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Cheating? I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it that. Personally I like to do songs in the original key. Primarily I'd say that is because I am attempting a cover similar to the original artist for which the song was made famous which is also the same as most people recognize. Generally I consider it a challenge to see if I can do the songs in the original key. Typically if I can't then I don't sing the song. Part of the reason for that is I have no way to change the key. If I did, then yeah, perhaps I would. Also I sometimes have a hard time imagining me singing songs in a different key. All that said, however I  have the tread topic - 'Making It Your Own' and changing key is certainly a way to help give a song your distinct feel.

So in summary, while I don't currently do it. I can see why people do, that it can be good, and oftentimes it is necessary.

Do I consider it cheating...hmmm... I'd say that sometimes when I hear someone do it at say..karaoke I do kind of think less of them if they don't have the range to sing a song in an original key. However, based on your points I can also see why that could be errant thinking.

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The Truth Is Out There

Folks,  I need to cheat.  What's a good easy online pitch transposer.  I just need to transpose down about a key.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

[glow=deepskyblue]Kappy- you can download Audacity free and they have a pitch changer in the effects section....audacity.sourceforge.net[/glow]

Planet Bill wrote
Do I consider it cheating...hmmm... I'd say that sometimes when I hear someone do it at say..karaoke I do kind of think less of them if they don't have the range to sing a song in an original key. However, based on your points I can also see why that could be errant thinking.

[glow=deepskyblue]You shouldn't think they don't have the same "range" if they change the key- they still have the same "Range" only the top and bottom notes are different-The song is still the song and requires the same range no matter what "key" it is in....perhaps the original singer would have trouble hitting the new notes( wink) [/glow]

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I remember talk shows in the 70s. Many of the guests would talk to the host for a few minutes then get up to sing a song. On their way to the singing stage, which was right by the band, they would always tell the band what key they wanted the song in.

Nearly everybody did it. If you don't believe me, ask Kappy.