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Hmmm...not quite sure I understand the question...



There is a definite dynamic on how this should build.....I usually start the build at "A thrill of hope.."  There should be...hmmm...I really go on FEEL with this, so I'm going to try and describe what it feels like to me when I sing this...There should be a sense of urgency and excitement...a sense of trying to contain the energy.  "Fall on your knees" should be louder, and the volume should continue to grow up to the end of the phrase "Oh Night devine" and then become softer again at "Oh night when Christ was born" to build up again on the first Oh night devine after that, and again, softer on the second.  There is a LOT of dynamic in this piece. *laugh*

 

This gets into one of those personal preference areas.  I generally try and keep those notes fairly straight toned - letting the vibrato come in a bit at the end.

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

redo with no fx or reverberation just my straight voice... Might not be loud enough, i think it's a little louder, what I did was sang another renditon so the first attempt doesn't have to be deleted..

I ran into real probs with this rendition... and just my plain voice and current recording setup..


(It took me three or four times to come up with this rendition.. After subbing it listening to it, then returning after a couple of hours, I came to the conclusion that this attempt was shamefully poor albeit louder.. I removed it)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

not sure how this works but would ya'll please critque my song Guilty...
i really thought i would be able to sing that song it's a standard blues song no biggie, but it seems something's missing....to me anyway...1st i hate the way i mix so that's some of it i guess, i feel the emotion is there but i could be wrong...normally i sing a song once this 1 i sang 2 times and it didn't get any better...i don't know what it's missing, maybe my old voice....ty in advance...and yes nothing but the truth....ty guys

listening to ur singing now steven...it's pretty funny really, the song u pick to sing is a christian song and ur jewish...ll....come on over to our side....ok the song...

why did u pick this song? now this is jmo but i felt the song was too low and too high, i would never even think of doing that song.....
i never felt like u were comfortable with the song, i know i wouldn't have been....
but having said that i did get to hear ur true voice more...

oh now i see why it may have been just a tad high it's  the Celine Dion track....ll...
i feel ur forcing ur vibrato,  just relax and sing heck with vibrato...

others can explain this better than i can but i feel you need to practice holding true notes, not that ur off key as it seems ur not sure of the notes u r hitting, gives the feeling ur drifting away from the note...and i think it's the vibrato doing that...but i could be wrong completely....lll....just trying to help.....just so u know u didn't hit that last low note...ll..tc

Yeah Billy,  I just relistened to the celine Dion track and my attempt at the second rendition and it's awful.  I did that song about three times, and stepped back just now after listening to it last a couple hours ago, and I think I did a horrid job !!  the original I did isn't as noticeable, but it's better done IMHO,  I had to ax the Celine Dione track, and I'll redo the traditional version so I'm louder, the first rendition still up in a prior post... Some of these christmas carols are really pretty songs,  I suppose that's the only reason I did this..  Yeah, the celine Dionne version I butchered REALLY bad now that I've had a chance to step-away and return...  It's actually a range I'm comfortable with *I think* but I can't seem to get depth or resonation to my voice  seems all I end up with is hollow breathy howl sounds,,, I was hoping for some bottom and bass to my voice seem strength, but no..]


I'll listen to your song now,  sleep on it, and critique you tomorrow after listening again.


Thanks again Billy...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Critique:  OK What Now

Song:   Guilty

Style:  Blues



Billy,  this ditto's what I entered in the showcase however here we can discuss it I suppose if you wish..


I listened to this, and the first impression I got is although it's blues of sorts, it's also that standard "50"s love song progression. So while it can have a lot of "blues" style to it, it can also be done as you did it and it still works. Just a matter of preference.. You started it off at somewhat standard volume, and built it up as opposed to maintaining a gravelly blues belt throughout. You could've added more energy to this I suppose, but you built up to that and started off more softly so it was nice to here your contrasting dynamics and building to crescendo... This rendition IMO works quite well the way you did it here. But I'm thinking not your standard belting style blues with an edge, but more of a strong love ballad 50's style... Many ways this can be done, but this does work as you've done it.. Or you can put more energy into it, and keep it more expressive throughout.. Either way IMHO

Another thing I'd like to make mention of is that your higher range is definately back, and you are jumping intervals and making nice smooth fast transitions dearly. your voice is brighter,   in this song it was quite clean..  I'm thinking you're sounding great now for "swing" style... Alot of Mike Bloomfield stuff with the Electric Flag would be a blast for you... "Wine" for instance. (might've been Paul Butterfield Blues Band)..  Really might be a fun song for you.

I don't recall if you've ever sub'd the Blues Brothers "Expressway to your Heart", or not.  I think that'd be fun for you too.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Critique:   Me

Song:  Gender Bender

Style:  Love Ballad

Artists:  Marilee Rush


http://www.ksolo.com/actions/showSongPr ... uid=391398

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hi Kappy when I sww you'd done o holy night I tried to go listen...but couldn't get it or any of your other subs to play. It just said it wasn't a valid file???


I just subbed that same song and was feeling alot of what you were describing. I did it in a semi classical style that is REALLY out of my comfort zone. I was terrified that Opera kitty would rip me to shreds.  I personally hear lots of errors in it- and had one person tell me(for the second sub I did- in a row) that I oversing. I *Thought* I was seriously holding back until the very end witht the high notes.

Anyway- I know how rampant "fluff" is so thought I'd throw it out there to see what you and some of the other people with various styles think of it. Do I need to tone it down or does it work "as is" This person may just not prefer the style of voice I have and I'm OK with that if that's the case....but if not- then I'd like to know so I don't keep repeatring the same mistake. What do you all think.

Song:O Holy Night
Artist: Sandi Patty
Genre: seasonal
Posted: singers showcase under "oneofakind864"

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Paula -

I was kind of confused by the "over singing" comment, myself.  To me, over singing means doing so much vocal gymnastics that make a song nearly unrecognizable.  Now, I haven't heard Sandi Patti sing this, but I do know she does some vocal gymnastics...I doubt you've strayed too far from what she did.

I'll give it another listen and see if I can give you something more in-depth than what I was able to do in SS.

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

It may not be my singing- it may be the commenters "ear"  :whistle:  LMAO  BUT...if it IS my singing- then I wanna know...and yeah- I always thought oversinging was vocal gymnastics. As far as THAT goes- I cut OUT some of what Sandi did...the commenter said "I needed to pull back" which to me meant loud and soft rather than "too busy" but yeah...I'd love to hear your thoughts..this is your genre so that makes you the expert!  :hug:

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Ok...I listened to Desperado first - since that also got an over-sing comment.  If we're talking in the terms you and I agree is "over singing" no, that's not an issue with either piece.  You do a few more acrobatics with Desperado than I generally care for, but it suits the style you are singing it in and your voice.  I wouldn't change how you've done it.

Now...O Holy Night...and, because I know you can take it, I'm being REALLY nit-picky here.  In general, you could get on stage with this as is and no one but you would take any issue with it. *teasing grin*

First of all...I REALLY like this arrangment...but you already know that...*laugh*

The beginning of this is just lovely.  I like the way you're emoting this.  That intensity and sense of urgency I was trying to explain to Kappy is there.

You build really well, the second syllable of "glorious" seemed to be hit a little too hard.  Almost like you're attacking it.  The jump is a little jarring and could be smoother.

I'm not sure what it is, exactly, but I don't like the "Fall"...it almost feels a little weak.  Like your support just wasn't totally there for a second if that makes sense...

Ok..and to be TOTALLY nit-picky..."Oh night when Christ was born" - the T at the end of night is missing...so it sounds like nigh - the night in the next phrase has the same problem.

There are some vocal transitions that are a little jarring to me.  like with "glorious," also the word "brother" in  "the slave is our brother" has the same kind of feel.  I think it's the transition from chest voice to a mix...you have this really rich lower register, and the other things I have heard you do seem to pretty well stay in chest, so this may not be a transition you're totally comfortable with.

"Praise his holy name"  there's a definite catch in your voice about halfway through  the sustain of name..it happens twice.  Very minor...I'm probably the only one who would catch it - and I had to listen a couple times to be sure.

Missing Ts at the end of night again...not as badly as the previous time, but still not hitting them cleanly.

The first high "divine" does sound a little tight.  And the final high starts beautifully but gets a tad shrill at the very end.  If you were doing this live, I would suggest cutting that note off a little sooner.

Really, over all, this is well done.  I'm still baffled by the over-sing comment.  Even if it were a volume thing....that's pretty much how the dynamics of this piece work (especially since we're talking Sandi Patti here!) and I don't see an issue with your volume.  I think that is a case of personal preference on the part of the commentor, and I wouldn't take it into consideration.

Hope that works for you, doll!

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

o holy night:
Paula..you have a terrific voice, great vibrato, great control.

Sometimes less is more...I woulda held off a little on the vibrato and followed the original melody line a tad closer. It is a little too busy for me, but you got the emotion down and are groovin'.

The arrangement in itself was a far enough departure from the original structure to set it apart on its own, and any song you sing, you already make it your own, just by singing it with that fabulous voice you have...

But that is just my own personal taste and others might not agree.

But it was a fabulous sub..

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Imagination is more important than knowledge.

Knowledge is limited.

Imagination encircles the world...

Paula,


 Oh Holy Night was a rendition I've never heard before.  It was an interesting rendition.  I never knew you were able to sing in a register this high !  Very good singing,  you even hit that final word "devine" which is an A in the soprano range.. Isn't most of your singing of blues material down in the tenor range ?  You have an amazing range..  I wonder if many critiquing this song have heard THIS particular rendition before.  It's not the standard traditional version.  Since it's not the standard rendition, and I've not even heard it, I personally could not critique it because it's just too new, and different at this point for me to understand..  Meaning it seems to be quite good.. but it's VERY different !  I wonder if "different" is what some are confusing for "too much"..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I'm putting up a song called "Breath of Heaven" that I would like to have critiqued if there are any takers.  I am singing this on December 23 during morning services twice to between 1000-1200 people and one of the things I want to know is if I gave this song the right feel, tech issues, etc.  I don't really care so much about receiving a rank, just honest feedback on my performance.  Thanks so much.

Here's what I see as being must crucial in this case even prior to listening here.

 Environment of performance is always a factor when critiquing something that will be a live performance, and this becomes a huge tech aspect in-so-far as HOW will this be setup when you sing it LIVE ?  Equipment setup and tweaking is almost everything ! What will be your hardware and technical support/ setup at the church ?  who will tweak and balance everything that's PA hardware assuring sound dispersion is correct given room acoustics ? (as opposed to your current computer recording setup which won't be at all a factor during your live performance).  Reason being, you will be performing this live, and proper PA, Power of PA, your board, microphone and person tweaking board to accomodate the room shape, size, how plush the room is (sound absorbtion when filled with MANY people, ceiling height etc) almost EVERYTHING...   How you space your speakers (or will this be a house system?)  these things all are important !!  If you can find out what type of board and speaker cabs you'll be using during your live performance, I'm sure somebody in here can help you A LITTLE in that area, of course this stuff must be done live, and the importance can't be minimized !  It's quite important you have a system, and person who can do your singing justice by balancing the PA hardware to fit the singing environment for the actual singing occassion (meaning 1200 people absorb A LOT of sound and even that setup is different than a dry run in an empty auditorium or church)... You will need to have somebody help you with that IN REAL for that live setting !  

Do you have somebody there to work with you on the sound ?  During dry-runs is there a tech person at the church you can work with for sound checks ?  How limited are you by the system you will be singing on the 12/23 ? Assuming auditorium, or church capacity is capable of 1200 and has a very high ceiling you need a sufficient system to do your voice justice !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Good questions, Steve.  First, the music generally done in our church is more comtemporary in nature (full band..guitars, bass, keys, drums...sometimes we have a cello, violin, and viola) as opposed to just strings or an organ or piano.  It's very rare anyone even sings to a track.  I'm on one of the worship teams and we have some really gifted instrumentalists that participate.  Unfortunately, I will have to sing to this backing since there really doesn't seem to be time to put the instrumentals together live.  Usually we have a practice time on the Thursday before the Sunday and then again on Sunday morning before the two services, so I may have the opportunity for one or two runs and at the time the sound will probably be set.  We currently have a student who is majoring in recording volunteering to do our sound and a couple of other volunteers.  When this church was built a few years ago, some major flaws occurred.  One was that parallel walls were built (which I understand to be a major no, no) and also the sound booth is very isolated from the room.  It's a box style with just an opening to hear through.  Usually the sound person has to come out of the sound booth to get a proper listen...otherwise, he can only hear through speakers set up inside.  They get a little lazy sometimes and don't always take the time to do a proper sound check.  Seems every week it varies and gets a bit frustrating.  We have an excellent sound system but really it doesn't get used to anywhere near its full potential.  The mics are Shure Betas and we have inear monitors for those of us who like them so there is so much to work with.  I don't know anyone who has a sound system this good...I just hope that whoever is doing sound that week takes the time to do it properly...I will inisist!

BTW, the ceilings are very high and the several speakers hang from there so I think the set up in that regard is great.

I actually thought this was stripped down from the way I've heard some people sing it...not oversung in my opinion.  Everything fit like a glove.

OK, everything you have said is certainly favorable, meaning usually contemporary setups play the venue,  gifted individuals regarding music are around, soundman, sound booth, individual studying audio engineering, etc... Seems you HAVE support around.  and that is VERY good !  That was my main concern.  I was concerned you were singing in a setup that didn't have conventional singing type or musical recital often, and wasn't equipped to handle them, so you'd be on a makeshift type setup without anybody to assist you...

Sounds like everything is QUITE favorable in your setting, and that's good ! You have loads of resources !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Yes..now if I can just make sure my performance is worthy of such a setting.

First off- THANK YOU to both Kappy and Murlin for taking time to listen and comment. Mur- you have very valid points and I totally agree with what you said about the vibrato- I tried to do it with less- but seemed like it had to be there for me to get the notes themselves out. But it's not my "preference" either- which is probably why I don't sing this style of music more often. I like knowing I'm in total control of my voice- and when i get into those high head tone I have limited control. I also agree with both of you that this IS a VERY different arrangement from the original- I shouildn't be saying this about a christmas song- but it was SUCH a beeoch to learn! I have been singing the standard version all my life- then this one comes along and adds extra measures and modulations in all over the place. I used Sandi Patty as my guideline to even figure out what the heck was going on. there wasn't anyplace for me to stay on the original melody- believe me it would have made it a whole lot easier if i could have. But I do get what you were saying. And this may shed some light on what the problem some others are having with it is- It does kind of throw you for a loop to hear an old standard you;'re used to mixed up and altered like this....so I guess it wasn't my singing or the person listening...it was the arrangement itself that was "overdone" It is a bombastic piece of music- but the drag queen in me just loves that drama.  :whistle: Thanks agan for taking the time to say what you think...it did help!

Kappy- glad to surprise you with the range I was trained back in the stone age on classical and was even a first soprano..but you are absolutely correct- I have spent the last 20 years singing in the tenor ranges in blues, jazz and funk styles- so this is really not comfortable for me anymore...it's a fun chance to throw in to mix things up every once inawhile but thats about it. But for future reference- you don't NEED to know the original to critique. You have a good ear- judge a song you've never heard the same way you'd decide if a new song by "elton john" was good or not. It's all based on the sound- and especially for me- that rarely has anything to do with the previous versions. Karaoke for many means seeing how close they can emulate the original- but for me- it means seeing how I cab adapt someone else's background to MY singing while still maintaining who I am as a vocalist.  :dancin:

Deep breath. Now Kitty- I SINCERELY appreciate your time and throughness- I basically did the transitions from chest to head like Sandi Patty did- but you pointed out great things. I listened to both mine and hers and you're right she DOES sound like she's attacking the notes on many of her transitions between chest and head. If I get around to it- I gonna make those changes and see if I can't make that smoother.

You also nailed "fall" it's one of the 3 notes in my range that (pardon the pun) "Falls"in between my chest and head voices so I can never decide which way to hit it. It wasn't a lack of support- it was indecision about HOW to support it you heard. I have more power with chest- but then the rest of the phrase sounds "off" in chest and wierd if I suddenly chest a power note like that then switch to head. Any suggestions how to treat it?

The missing T's are also something I did as a last resort- I sung this song about 15 times in one day and kept popping "p's, T's and d's" all over the place- so when they fell in a louder part of the song I clipped them off. I tried to sing with a thick windscreen and it muffeled the softer intro parts too much- I tried pulling the mic away on those parts and it went from the intimate feel to sounding like I was in the next room yelling...It was a nightmare to record- especially when I had to do whatever I did in 1 take. So i sacrificed some of the crisp consonants to get better overall levels. I would KILL to be able to do this in a real studio with someone to man the boards so I coud just sing the song and not have to worry about the technical aspects of it all. But after all that- YUP you nailed that one too- that was one of the things I figured you'd catch- it bothered the heck out of me too...good ears there!

And it is so blaring to me when I hear it...I am SO NOT comfortable with those transitions and I was tightening up those last notes because they are getting up there for me...so whith them it's a matter of just getting them out period( sigh) and not any flexibility about "how" ...I was just glad I did'nt crack- I felt like I was going to the entire phrase.  :O  So you just echoed all the flaws I heard myself...couldn't agree with you more....but it is puzzling...because after all that....none of it explains the oversinging comment. Maybe what Murl and Kappy were saying IS the problem....the arrangement is just so different from what anyone would expect...and no one could deny it's an "over the top' chart. So maybe the culprit was in the unorthodox track.  But I sure do appreciate all of you taking the time and effort to listen and be honest! You all brought something new to the table for consideration! It's much appreciated!

THANKS YOu GUYS!

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