Karaoke Forums

Here's another of my favorites. They are actually much better than the last I posted. They are The Rogues out of Houston Texas.

The Rogues.

For Two Days American Musical Supply is having free S&H NO minimum order.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Lonnie,

    If you get a spare moment this link should take you into the video section of the LP "Robot" description area.  Assuming it doesn't take you directly to the "instructions" video on the page  (bottom most video) just that video shows some of the complexities that'd concern me down the road in terms or repair costs.

http://www.gibson.com/robotguitar/Robot ... oting.aspx

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven, can you tell me what kind of guitar Steve Bradley is holding in this ancient picture from 1966?  (First photo, second guy from the right.)   What about the guitar 'Turtle" is balancing on the floor?  (Guy on the far right.)

http://pnwbands.com/uscadenza.html

This is funny for all you Spinal Tap fans!  LOL

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=At887GsraAQ

Don,  Center electric is around a 1960-1961 Epiphone Emperor.
The Guitar was made in the Kalamazoo Michigan Gibson plant, and the PU's are 3 Mini-humbucking gibson pickups.

The Guitar harder to tell without seeing headstock or front view, but I would guess that was a recently purchased (meaning around 1964) Gibson ES-125,  It's possible that it was a Guild Starfire single cut-away, but I doubt it.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Thanks! You sure know your guitars!!  :worship:  Were those guitars very expensive back then especially for a teenager?  I always liked the sound of hollow bodied Gibsons for certain song styles-- warmer and richer compared to Strats and Teles.

So much of this also has to do with tweaking of tone controls in a tele even, and the amp type and setting, as well as the guitarist playing.. Fingers also have much to do with tone.. and many forget.. there are so  many factors...  I wasn't aware until I was considerably older that a person who really knows how to tweak a tele, can roll back the tone nob in such a way, and set the guitar thru a marshall tube stack to sound VERY much like a Les Paul.  I doubt I could do this,  but some have..

Remember Les Paul WAS a jazz guitarist,  and Les Pauls as well as Strats are great for Jazz too.... Jazz is just the style... how the musician likes to deliver it is as unique as the voices that sing jazz genre music..  there's alot of room for alot of ideas







Don.

   There was an interesting thing going on around "that" time period..  

East Coast-   more use of the Gibson Les Paul
West Coast-  MANY more were using the ES-335 for the same music and style

The Les Paul is great for Jazz too... The two guitars although one sold-body and
the other semi-hollow are extremely close in what they can do tone-wise.

As you'll recall we didn't have the great options of lesser expensive really nice guitars growing up... We had to at least spring for a Fender Mustang (which even initially remember the mustang came with either red or blue racing stripe was 90 dollars in 1969 *i think* which wasn't cheap.. Now of course we had options such as Sears Silvertone, Teisco Del Ray, but the fact is, these were never the 'better' guitar builds... they were retail dept store guitars that didn't have wiring, electronics or build that was the best...  Even Hagstroms were cheap (hag 1-2 and 3),  Kays weren't the best... Vox were so-so but not inexpensive,  Univox also weren't the overly affordable...

Look at what kids can have today for affordable prices by todays standards ?  THeres alot, and IMPORT guitars have REALLY improved !!!

I'll find an example of a flyer that has 1960s prices for instruments.. Since this is in the Karaoke forum,  I'll also try to include microphones and speakers and items others might be interested in as well..   I recall what Strats and teles were in Sam Ash around 1969  and in the first catalogs, but let me find a reference point. Gibsons were almost always more costly, and the older kids, or pro's had them for the most part.. With the exception of very occassional lower end-lines such as "Melody Maker" Gibson was a fabulous gift but hardly an affordable guitar... The guitar some oogled over of course,  yet few IN THE NORTHEAST that is oogled over was "Gretsch White Falcon"  Gold plating, Stereo, and around 1000 dollars in those days... which was something almost NONE could afford..  I think VW Beatles were about the same price. Yet this was around 1969.. We are talking 5 years prior.. Let me see what was out that was a more common-make.. not including Semi Mosrites guitars etc..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

This is VERY important.  Many collectors (including myself) recognise the term "Vintage" can also be a means of exploiting or hoodwinking the buyer.  Reason being,  although quality for the most part wasn't bad in the respected models of that era in retrospect and for the most part... Not all teles, and strats were Great sounding...  There was some poorer individual guitars among ALL lines...

From G. Gruhn

Defining New, Used and Vintage Instruments
New instruments by definition are pieces received straight from the manufacturer and are in perfect condition with warranty. In most cases these are commercial utility grade products, but as previously stated this is indeed a new "golden age" of guitar building. Some new instruments, especially those produced as limited run custom shop models from major manufacturers or handmade products by individual builders are extremely high quality and are likely to be very good investments.

Used refers to models still currently in production (but not under warranty) which are not sought after as collectibles. These are frequently very fine utility instruments and generally sell for significantly less than a new or collectible vintage instrument. Since a well-made instrument can last several hundred years with good care, a used instrument can be an excellent choice for someone simply desiring good utility. A used guitar - even if it is not a highly sought collectible - tends to hold its value very well and can be a good long-term investment.

Vintage instruments made during the so-called "golden era" for guitars, banjos, and mandolins are the items most sought by collectors and which have appreciated the most in recent years.

The pre-1880 minstrel era banjos are highly sought by collectors whereas the classic era banjos of the late 1880's through 1910 exhibit exquisite workmanship, beautiful ornamentation, and a superb old timey sound. The greatest mandolins were produced in the period of 1905 through the mid 1920's. The late 1920's through the 1930's saw the development of steel string guitars, and it was during this period that some of the finest quality instruments of that style were produced. Electric guitars were first introduced during the 1930's, but it was not until after World War II that their development really took off. The golden era for collectible electric instruments is the 1950's through mid 1960's.

What Makes a Vintage Instrument?
Age alone is not the determining factor in what makes an investment grade instrument. Guitars, mandolins and banjos are judged by maker, model, age, degree of originality, structural and cosmetic condition, historical importance, rarity, and sound and playability. Instruments by the finest makers exhibit design, structural and cosmetic workmanship, materials, and sound and playability which set them apart from their competitors. Just as art collectors may specialize in the works of various artists, guitar, banjo and mandolin collectors frequently specialize. Most specialize in instruments suited for the type of music which they most enjoy.

From 1985 to the present market prices for vintage instruments have escalated considerably. A few of the most sought-after models have gone up in price as much as 1000%. The fact remains however that many models are still very reasonably priced, and in fact, cost no more than and in some cases less than a modern replica.

Vintage and used instruments are available from a great variety of sources such as auctions, flea markets, classified ads and mail order dealers. Just as with any other collectible it is critically important for the buyer to have product knowledge or to confine his dealings to reputable dealers who will provide written certification of authenticity and appraisal. While it is certainly true that there are occasional bargains to be found at auctions and flea markets or from private sellers, unless one has the knowledge to properly identify, appraise and determine originality of the pieces there is a great potential for loss. Just as product knowledge is critically important in collecting art, oriental rugs, jewelry, coins, stamps, or any other collectible the same is true with fretted instruments. Knowledge is power.


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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

EXAMPLE OF HOW THE VINTAGE INSTRUMENT MARKET CAN GET AWAY WITH ARBITRARY PRICING

It's ALL in the advertising method on items that are quite in demand among a certain buying segment. A segment that HAS money to begin with. Know how to work within your field,  and you make money. Fast money ?  Not MOST.. but some !




Epiphone Forum.. and THIS is quite interesting regarding vintage exploitation..

ft-45 prices (dave stott)
Posted: 9:52:30 am on 7/28/2007 Modified: Never
 

can my eyes be deceiving me?

Several dealer prices in the latest Vintage Guitar magazine are listing 1960's vintage Epiphone FT-45 Sunburst Cortez guitar at $1,500 - $2,000

Have they really become that pricey??

Dave


 Re: ft-45 prices (Iconoclast)
Posted: 4:21:02 pm on 7/28/2007 Modified: Never
 

dave stott wrote:can my eyes be deceiving me?

Several dealer prices in the latest Vintage Guitar magazine are listing 1960's vintage Epiphone FT-45 Sunburst Cortez guitar at $1,500 - $2,000

Have they really become that pricey??

Dave
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They've become that pricey because the dealers have discovered that the uninitiated wishing to join in the vintage game will pay that price believing they're getting a guitar worth that price. You'll often see a vintage guitar on E Bay that is ridiculously priced. The reason is that the dealer is trying to establish a price for that particular guitar. He'll offer it for auction with say $10K BIN and an opening of $5K and a reserve of $8K when reasonably it's only worth say, $7K. Anyone interested in that instrument sees that it ends up falling short of the reserve at $7.5K so they assume it must be *worth* more and the dealer though has "established" a price of $7.5K from the bidding for a guitar worth $500 less..but... anyone researching the pricing for that guitar sees that it was bid up to $7.5 K on E Bay so when they pay $7.5K for that guitar they *think* they've bought a guitar worth more. It's like Henry J's thinking... If you can't sell a guitar for $5K re-price it higher and someone will think it's *worth* more and pay it...it doesn't make sense but remember, a dealer can price a guitar at anything he wants. What he *gets* for it is another matter.

I had a '57 Les Paul Custom that sat for a year in a large, well-known music shop priced at $23K without any takers. 7.5 condition, 3 PAF humbuckers, 85% (non-original but period-correct Grover machine heads, one replaced volume pot) original with just some over-spray on the back though with a non-original case. My son met a dealer in Louisiana who said he'd take it to Texas to a guitar show and sell it for a 12.5 % commission which he did. The dealer priced it at the show at $40K, was offered $35K and sold the d@mn thing in two days. Since then the price of 50's L.P. Customs have sky rocketed though that doesn't mean the dealers are getting those prices but there was a price established when they sold mine and I have a strong suspicion mine is now in the land of Sushi.

If you find a guitar you want, research the actual selling prices on say, E Bay and make an offer. A mid-60's FT-45? $1200 in very good condition and not a Euro more.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

RE:  Dan Fogelbergs earlier compositions some might not be familiar with.

Those of us that grew up during the ballad period of music (1970's) were quite familiar with a the following albums Fogelberg released..  Listen to the samples of "Souvenirs" and "Theme from Half Mountain"  for an idea of Fogelbergs early style. Only adjectives I can think of our "beautiful" and "mood music"..

http://www.amazon.com/Souvenirs-Dan-Fog ... f_f_t_cs_1

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

It's been a while since I thought about all the great songs Dan Fogelberg wrote and performed. Same Old Lang Syne, Heart Hotels, Run For The Roses, Longer, Part Of The Plan -- they were all heartfelt, sensitive and well crafted songs.  That guy could sing some beautiful harmonies too! I remember back in '74 when the Souvenirs album came out. Joe Walsh produced it. I played that one dozens of times.  He'll be missed!

Yeah Don,   His music was what I'd call "sensuous".  I always felt it was profound,  Fogelberg wrote the type of stuff that kind've stays with you, and takes you places.. He was extremely close to Jimmy Buffet.  Wonder if we'll see a big benefit/tribute concert with the old balladeers !  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daZhgvIu3UM

Of course, most know this song.
http://www.mahalo.com/Dan_Fogelberg


Same Auld Lang Syne Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhjYbfK9vrk

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I was reading about the vintige instruments, and wanted to comment. I have a 74 strat that I have kept around for my daughter to learn to play guitar on and she has become quite proficent with it. I, on the other hand, ordered a Gibson Les Paul Custom Silverburst in 1979. When it came in, even with the sales receipt showing I had paid in full, they did not want to part with the guitar. Apparently the price had gone up a couple thousand dollars from when I had ordered it.  I have played many guitars in my life, but this is the best guitar I have ever touched in my life. The tone is so rich and warm yet with a little help, I can get a great country sound out of it as well for some great leads.  I have used this guitar for years through a fender twin that my dad bought for me when I was 13. Still have the amp and it is in great condition. I also use an old Ibanez UB400 effects rack with compressor, phaser, distortion, and chorus/flanger effects.  I also use and ernie ball volume pedal.  The wonderful thing about the Les Paul, is that with the volume pedal I can almost duplicate the sound of a pedal steel guitar which is great for a country picker. I can also do some great things with it using distortion and the volume pedal.  I am the only person outside of the salesman who set the guitar up for me when I bought it, to ever play this guitar, and I intend to keep it that way. One day, I am going to give it to my daughter and she said she would treasure it forever because it is such a part of who I am.  They have just re-released the guitar for a limited time only and I was really shocked to see it back on the market.--Mike

Wow Mike,  You have a black face pre-cbs Fender Twin  :worship:  :worship: .. That was when guitar amps were state of the art IMHO !!!  Sure,  Strats and tele's are great guitars, no question..

I'm somewhat confused regarding the Les Paul Situation.  Initially it seemed that the store didn't wish to part with it, however you apparently do have it.. Now around 1979 the LP (although Silver-burst wasn't a common color for the Standard, Custom, to my recollection) new was in the vacinity of 400-500 so unless you purchased a used 50's, or early 60's model I'm somewhat confused,  reason being, the black 57 black beauty could be had for under 1K in many places so I'm wondering what LP would've appreciated several K in 1979..  Late 70's early 80's I think was when Gibson left Kalamazoo MI, and was manufactured in the Norlin plant...  The LP thru a Fender Twin is a gorgeous clean combo too... That amp will really do ANY guitar justice !  Gorgeous amp, that is a gem !!  Blackface Twins and Supers are outstanding amps...  Between the weight of the amps and the weight of the LP all the musician needs is a back-brace ..  Even my marshall stack is easier to transport..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

You are right Steven, come to  think about it. I bought the LP in 1980 not 79.  The silverburst was new to the market and sold for $1,000.00.  I ordered one from a local music store in Odessa, Texas.  I believe, and I might be mistaken, but the plant was in Nashville at the time where this particular guitar was manufactured.  As When my guitar came in, the price had raised to $2,300.00 and they had stopped production on the guitar due to a pigmentation problem in the finish.  They said that the silver would have a tendency to tarnish to a kind of green tint.  They claimed at the time that they were only going to produce a couple hundred of this guitar and anyone who had one, could return it for another guitar since the finish problem was a manufacturing problem.  I showed the receipt "Paid in full" to the salesman who reluctantly gave me the guitar. I did not care if the silver turned a little green. I wanted that guitar!  He set it up for me and I took it home.  The silver has darkenend a little on my guitar and at times, if you hold it just right you can see the light green tint that they were talking about, but I keep it polished and it is in perfect shape. I love this guitar.  Yes, I need a backbrace when I finish a show, but the sound I get from it is worth every pain I have from strapping it on.  The fender twin is in excellent shape as well.  I had the speakers re-coned by a fender repairman a couple of years ago. Outside of that, things are original on the amp.  The sound that I get from the twin and the les paul just gets better when you use the volume pedal for swells.  I love the sustain I get from the guitar and I have never found an instrument that could play as smooth and sweet as the Les paul.  I will treasure that guitar as long as I live.--Mike

As you should Mike,  It doesn't get sweeter than the LP thru a pre-cbs Twin.  Up here in the NYC area I was pretty lucky,  I purchased my Norlin LP around that time at low-retail, so the custom wasn't terribly expensive.. Out've curiousity I'm going to look up the Silver-burst because although I recall the Arctic White with White headstock custom during that time-period, it sounds as tho you have a REAL collectors item based on the limited production of that finish.  I have a photo of it in my photo album.. What I'd love to have now is a small low wattage class A amp that I can open up and get distortion with it ..  Like perhaps a pro Jr, or blues deluxe.. one of fenders  lower wattage models... even a deluxe reverb.. It's tough to open up an 85 watt RMS Twin..


I think the Cherry burst LP custom is 81..


I love GIbson necks. Just much easier to play.  Going from a Gibson to the Tele isn't an easy transition since the tele is less forgiving a neck, GE Smith said it best,  he can play the Gibson necks, but a Fender neck you have to fight...HEHE..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

They have one of the re-issues pictured at Musiciansfriends.com.  Epiphone also put out a copy but the paint job on that one is different from the Gibson.  The Epiphone has more silver than the gibson. The gibson starts out black on the outside and turns silver toward the middle. It is really a beautiful guitar. You will probably have to do a search for Gibson les paul custom sivlerburst to find it on their website but I know it is there.  I think they fixed the pigmentation problem.  The guitar itself, according to what I read, is getting really good reviews.  I love the neck on mine. It is really fast, small, and smooth.  I have a friend that uses a fender blues amp in a small venue and plays a gretch electric through it.  I think he is now using a Behringer v-amp effects processor with it and I think an Ibanez tube screamer.  He plays a lot of jazz and is really an incredible guitarist.  He got his masters in guitar from North Texas State University and they have a really good music program for Texas at least.  I like the way his guitar plays though the blues amp.  It has a lot of sweet sustain.  He can crank it without it becoming overbearing with the rest of the band he plays with. --Mike

I also have an old Gibson accousic that my dad gave me.  He passed away last November and before he died, he gave me his old Gibson.  He was given the guitar when he was 17.  He was 76 when he passed away.  I remember growing up and sitting around the house with him playing music a couple nights a week just for fun. I even played that old guitar a few times growing up.  Last year, just before he died, I took that old gibson and used it to lay some lead guitar lines down for a Christmas tune I was going to sub in SS.  That old guitar sounds better the older it gets! It has been through a lot in its day. If it could talk, I can only imagine the stories it would tell. My dad took it to Korea when he was in the service and brought it back home again.  I won't part with that old guitar either. I really enjoy taking it out of the case quite often and playing a little on it.  I certainly like the way it sounds when I recorded "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" last year.  I have been thinking about subbing the tune again just because of the guitar.--Mike

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".