Karaoke Forums

Steven, that is it! The photo leaves a lot to be desired to really show off the beauty of the guitar, but it is a good photo regardless.  I can't say enough about the way that les paul plays, but it is so heavy, my shoulders ache after a couple hours on stage.  When I was younger it was not so bad but the older I get, the heaver it feels. Still, I won't sacrifice the quality sound I get from that guitar for anything!--MIke

I went into the a Les Paul Forum Mike,  I believe your guitar was made in limited run 1980 and is 13 lbs. That's a HEAVY guitar, thing is along with that weight in the case of LP's comes great sustain..  There is NO guitar like the LP. It was my first REAL electric, I saved up for it, looked forward to being able to say "I had an LP" (when I was young), and given the option of only one electric, THAT would be my first choice, It was when I was buying my first guitar, and assuming I had to sell my collection it'd be the last I part with.. I don't want all sorts of active electronics on a "one guitar does it all" with the flip of a toggle or turn Tele, strat,  ES-175 rotary nob.  I want a guitar that does it's thing without bells and whistles and simulators...  That's MY option as more of a purist or traditionalist..  I feel there are three prototype electrics out there in terms of solid body guitars that can do amazing things... LP's,  Strats, and Teles...  Sure I love the SG, 335, and other model's too, but for my styles of music three guitars can cover it all thru a good amp.. and the LP can take it an extra step in terms of warmth and "balls".. for rock I just like some reverb on a good amp, and a simple mxr phase 90...

There are three factors to how good a guitar sounds... The guitarist playing it is a VERY VERY important factor (technique and tone chain starts with our fingers of course), also the guitar itself, and the amp... There's little a les paul can't do... If the player knows how to use the guitar

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I noticed earlier today that the trains rolling through Canby blow a cool major seventh chord as they alert the car drivers near the crossings.  OK sorry Steven, now back to our discussion of Les Paul's.  :)

Morning Steven! I agree with what you said about the the Lp, Strat, and Tele.  I have played the SG's and 335's as well and always prefer to go back to the three you mentioned.  I must confess though I have enjoyed playing a Ricknbacker a time or two. Still, for getting the job done, I always go back to one of the three..Lp, Strat, or Tele. I have an mxr phase 90 but somewhere along the line it quit working on me.  I agree again, that is a great little piece of equipment to use.  Technique, style, and inviduality are very important.  A skilled guitarist can make even the worst guitar sound pretty good, and given a good guitar, the music is incredible.  I spend hours trying to improve my skills.  I prefer the LP to the strat or tele, and I even though I own a strat, I prefer the tele to the strat, maybe because I play mostly country. Still, even though the LP is great for rock, it is an incredible guitar for country as well. It is very true, I dont know of anything the LP can not do if the guitarist playing it has decent skills.--Mike

Morning Steven! I agree with what you said about the the Lp, Strat, and Tele.  I have played the SG's and 335's as well and always prefer to go back to the three you mentioned.  I must confess though I have enjoyed playing a Ricknbacker a time or two. Still, for getting the job done, I always go back to one of the three..Lp, Strat, or Tele. I have an mxr phase 90 but somewhere along the line it quit working on me.  I agree again, that is a great little piece of equipment to use.  Technique, style, and inviduality are very important.  A skilled guitarist can make even the worst guitar sound pretty good, and given a good guitar, the music is incredible.  I spend hours trying to improve my skills.  I prefer the LP to the strat or tele, and I even though I own a strat, I prefer the tele to the strat, maybe because I play mostly country. Still, even though the LP is great for rock, it is an incredible guitar for country as well. It is very true, I dont know of anything the LP can not do if the guitarist playing it has decent skills.--Mike

Oh Mike,  Sorry I missed your last post... I sort've vacated the Belfry tower for the holiday season, haven't been all here, there... etc..  I will get into the guitar stuff.. but wanted to touch on another aspect of musicianship that's recently on my mind..


As musicians or artists... what is our goal.. MY problem is I try to recreate, and not create... Give me an instrument, and like the photo on the puzzle box... I'll create THAT for you... But give me MY voice, with it's unique qualities, and say "make it yours",  I'm at a TOTAL loss because "what is mine" ?  I don't know how to build something without some design in mind.  I assimilate and become an already existing product when I play an instrument... So,  when I sing Boston and don't hear Brad Delp on the playback... I freak, and beat myself up... If I don't recognise it,  I don't know what to do with it, where to go with it, I've acquired skills needed to listen and recreate.. nothing more... This is why singing is tough, I can make musical instruments sound like something already written, guitars sound like other guitars... but my voice... well,  I'm stuck, I can't riff with it to sound like something I recognise... My voice is too open-ended... I don't know how to solve a problem without having a tangible objective.. I don't know how to create or innovate aesthetically.. I ONLY recreate and cover.. I don't compose original material, never took that route,  never even wanted to.

So those of you that like to sing, or like to play an instrument.. what is your desire ?  what do you try doing ?
Do you try to become somebody already existing or "cover" or emulate a style ?...  OR:  recognise their is room to "innovate" and carve a niche for you  (at least ideally at some point) ?  or does none of this matter, and singing is merely to enjoy what you do and nothing more, you have no objective beyond ?   etc...   This is a question regarding music for those that consider themselves to be not just karaoke singers, but singers...

What is it you aspire to sound like ?  to be able to do ?  or do you know how to work with what is uniquely your own quality and nobody elses ?  I do not..


I want to sing like a few of the best classic rock vocalists I've heard in my day.. same with instrument work.. I want to clone... to emulate... Not introduce kappy's original attributes, nuances... etc (assuming by some weird stretch there are any) to the music realm..  I'm a cover musician that grew up in the decades of "learn the riff and show up knowing it next band practice"...  Here's the tape...  now clone it !!

I am boxed into that mindset,  and it's all I am...  

Don,  I know no other way.. Psychologically I'm just one of the backing instruments on a karaoke song...  not the front person...

I think in my case I settled and found my comfort or niche in being part of the relay team, as opposed to the creator or leader..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hi Steven! Great to hear from you today! I can certainly relate to what you are saying.  Nothing would please me more than to be able to write my own original music. I am an English teacher and I still find original lyrics to be a difficult, if not completely impossible feat for me to achieve. My work will begin ok, then before long, I am hearing some cover in my head and the words have taken a turn to someone else's tune! That frustrates me greatly. On the other hand, my 18 year old daughter has written around 20 original pieces and she finds it to be easy as well as rewarding. When it comes to my voice, I struggled for a long time.  Of course, if you dont have originals to do, you do covers! I do have one tune that was written by a friend of mine which I was fortunate to record. Every now and then, I actually hear myself on one of the local radio stations singing this tune or one of my students will come in for 1st period class and tell me they heard me singing on the radio as their parents drove them to school.  That is an incredible feeling to experience. I was really timid about my voice when doing covers. I felt that if they did not hear George Strait when I did one of his songs, then I had not accomplished the goal. The truth of the matter is, people dont intend for me to sound like Strait! I finally figured that one out. They want the music to sound the same, but they want me to sound original! I have even had people tell me they would rather hear me sing Strait's songs than hear Strait! I dont know if they are just trying to flatter me or if they really like what I do, but hearing people tell me this has definitely built my confidence in my own voice to where I actually like listening to me.  I used to not want to hear myself and would turn off a radio or cd, or even walk out of a room rather than hear myself.  Now, I can appreciate how different I sound. Even though my band may play covers very close to the originals, I do sound different than the original artist and that is a good thing! Many times, I hear how people prefer my version to an original. Several years ago, I decided to re-create a tune that I could not find a track for. My band was busy and beside that, I wanted the experience and joy of trying to play all the tracks myself.  I did my best to do a good cover of the tune.  I own 2 violins , but I am a terrible fiddle player! I just own them, I have not actually ever spent much time trying to learn the instrument. I took out one of the violins and spent 3 to 4 days learning to play as well as I could. I learned to play the fiddle part to the song I wanted to do and made my attempt. I will admit the fiddle playing leaves a lot to be desired, but the guitar parts sound great and the piano work I did I am very proud of. I had my daughter who was I think 15  or 16 at the time do the background harmony and I did the lead vocals. Everyone who heard the tune felt the fiddle playing was acceptable and the rest was great! I still feel really bad about the fiddle part but the rest is not too bad. If you want to hear the song, I subbed in over in the showcase.  The song is called "A Penny For Your Thoughts." It is subbed under ml_texas. You will now have to find it under the search.  Take a listen and let me know what you think. Like I said, it was just a fun experience of trying to re-create a tune and I had to do it by myself.  If I would have waited to use the band, it would have been great. My fiddle player's first gig was touring as Elvis Presley's very first drummer. The guy is old but is an incredible fiddle player. He gave up touring with Elvis to play fiddle for Ray Price for 17 years.  All of my bandmembers are old guys with stories to tell of playing with the the stars.  They tell me I sing as good as anyone they have worked with. That, again, has built my confidence to where I dont mind if I dont sound like the original artists on a song. I do think you have brought up a very good subject in talking about singing covers.--Mike

Steve, indeed this is an interesting topic to me as well. The whole concept of having a voice that doesn't sound like anyone else's voice to me is something I have struggled with. I have sung professionally for years but it is seriously only within the last five years or so (mostly after I did quite a bit of recording as a backup singer in a band) that I quit struggling with the actual 'sound' of my voice. I have never been satisfied with it, which I find now is quite a common issue with many singers.

I can only think that by working on the technical aspects of singing, making sure we are doing it all as correctly as we can, and worrying a little less about the actual 'sound' of our voice, do we get over that hump. I used to shudder when I would listen to the recording I had done. And the funny thing is, it doesn't matter how many people or WHO is actually telling you that your voice is WOW, EXCELLENT...that I ever believed any of them.

I don't get nervous at all...so it isn't an issue of nerves ... I just don't like the tonal quality of my voice. I don't overuse vibrato, I am very strong in all ranges and have almost a limitless upper range, and technically speaking it is probably pretty decent...I just don't like the SOUND of it.

I do mostly covers anymore because juggling a full-time day job, a karaoke biz at night, and doing backup and lead singing in a band just became too much for me (I am also a grandmother who takes care of two kidlets occasionally during the day).  

The covers I do (anything from Martina McBride to Joss Stone to Janis Joplin) of course when I do them don't sound anything at all like anybody else, darnit anyway. Hubby is a dead ringer for Rod Stewart when he sings - makes people stop what they're doing and watch and listen.  I chuckle because the only voice I have heard that is anywhere near to what I sound like is one of Lyle Lovett's backup singers.  

I am able to spew out lyrics at an incredible rate but like you, Mike, I tend to drop back to a similar cover tune for melody...with the thought that, "Gee, there can only be so many melodies."  Now where does that concept come from? Then I'll listen to an indy artist who writes great music and lyrics and think, gee, that sounds different.

You'd think after so many years of singing melodies and lyrics that any one of us should have the ability to create new music. Very interesting concept to ponder. I guess that part of the creative process doesn't cross over like our ability to interpret the music/lyrics of others. Not something I easily understand, I'm afraid.

K

Mike,  Excellent points.  Here's the thing, although WE are both long-time musicians does it perplex you as well that you can't hear aspects of your singing that MIGHT very well sound better than the cover version of a song you are singing ?  

Do you at times feel, "If I am a musician why can't I discern such a quality in my voice as opposed to not knowing the difference between "fluff" and others honest input?  What is this veil, or block WE have regarding our own internal singing qualities regardless of how much musical ability we may have ?  Actually a medical doc did recently explain to me we CAN NOT for physical reasons hear our voices as they sound when we sing... reason being we are vibrating the sounds rather than hearing them...and USUALLY our voices are a tad higher than they appear to US when singing assuming we aren't used to hearing ourselves.. I suppose this lends itself to reason why I believe my fantasy of nailing the original while singing.

Funny thing about lyrics... With the exceptions of the great old time balladeers... I onlu listen to melodic flow.  I never even listen to lyric content in music..  I am of the l-lV-V school with plagal cadence I guess.. We grew up in the "blues" (or basic country style) of music, and it's  little wonder I suppose why we hone into composition...

Also another interesting area.. Did you have classical upbringing ?  If-so classical FROWNED on anything different in the 50's and 60's... "Do it like it reads" was how it was when I started music... There's no room for Kappy so don't insult the greats by even trying to be one of them !

It's how things were... Music was conservative.. and I never evolved much from being a "traditionalist".  Does this make sense ?  Let me put it this way... on a respect scale... I have utmost respect for guitarists like Lee Ritenour, and if I could play like somebody, it would certainly NOT be someone like Hendrix, but instead Tuck Andress.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Karen, YEP !   This is just a strange phenom for me !  You bring up good points about the technical aspects too however many have been stripped of their knacks and nuances by instructor bias, so finding a good instructor that can work with what WE might have (since obviously it's tough for us to remain impartial to that which we do possess that's inherently "decent sounding") is also important..  Like you say, backup is where I too feel I can be something.. Funny thing about Karaoke too.. When I'm doing it, I try to deliberate lay back out've respect for "the singers" ..Just how I was raised... IE..."Don't mess with the big-wigs when you play kappy, it's distasteful"..  Right or wrong, it was seriously instilled in me as an artist to respect those that are skilled, and have more talent... and NOT upstage them !  Ethically it would be wrong to drown out the better vocalists for me even in a karaoke setting... Weird yep !!    I'm not from a time when everybody and their brother were allowed "on stage", or "in showcase".


There are different types of musicians,  there ARE of course innovators, and than those such as myself that are cover technicians... Some read quite well (and to me the highest paying orchestral positions are those offered to musicians that in essence are painters painting by numbers.. They are excellent readers and can assimilate), but likely are the first to LOATHE anything new... similarly classical hated jazz and called it "the swamp" in the 60's and prior... I decided to go "the ear" route, but still limit it to assimilating what I hear only... and deviate from sight-reading.. because to me, that's boring... and TOO rigid..



WOULD HE KNOW THIS THO if nobody told him how close his timbre or style comes ?  Would he naturally be able to hear this ?


While on the road I worked with a few huge names... incidently ANY TIME I tried to make room for me as a musician, I got stares that could KILL...  As a pro-musician if you are following the leader, you are FORCED to know your place as follower !!  This is what makes this tough for me.  Karaoke is more of a game... but it's ethically the antithesis of what musicians learn in the real world.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Incidently... Funny thing..

Want to be the mockery of an orchestra ?  Show up for an audition for concert-master and ask others if they like the sound of "your fiddle".  Mike,  I have some funny Jr High orchestra stories.. I got thrown out've the orchestra back around early 70's as a bass-viol player when three horns and myself broke into AWB's "Cut the cake" between songs during a christmas recital...  We were GOOD too !!!!

Mike,  I did a lot of work with Teddy Wilson (Keyboardist for Louis Armstrong, Lena Horne, Benny Goodman, and Ella Fitzgerald) around 1985, I know what it means to "back up" the front guy.  Was the same in rock...  I HAD to know my place otherwise I ended up on the street..

So, when it comes to singing... I feel as tho I am insulting music displaying MY work as a wannabe singer.  A different school from the "Karaoke" period of music... When I played jazz clubs in my area on jam-nights I ALWAYS deferred to the more talented instrumentalist, and offered even my ax..Just how things were in the pecking order.  Etiquette IS a must..

Music performance is for THE LISTENER, the audience must be pleased... and it must be given 110%.. It's all I know in the performing arts.. As an english teacher isn't the principle similar Mike ?  Meaning,  presentation is VERY important ?  Again something funny,  I grew up having people correct my horrible sentence structure and english composition, even in this room when it's happened, I expect it and say thank you... My point being is as an artist it's always about wanting to "improve" and at this point in life due to physical constraints the struggle to "keep up" with those having greater dexterity.. It's an honor to be helped by those with more skill, not an insult... It's how I learned things..

"Know your place'.

Doesn't Karaoke differ from this area of etiquette ?  Sort've like the old cliche,  part of "the smarts" is knowing what we DO NOT know, and can't do..respecting our limitations in aesthetic areas

Study hard-----> practice----->practice------>give recitals and get critiqued--->practice----->polish----->get critiqued------>perform ONLY when it's as close to "10" as it can be in ANY setting !!

were there ever exceptions to this pre-charades and Karaoke games ?  and even charades was a small scale party game..  I feel AWKWARD exposing some aesthetic area as an adult that isn't "pro-level" even online.

I think what many might not understand is that most musicians DO NOT frown on Karaoke, it's just NOT a traditional area understood by some,  similarly, the "turntable" isn't accepted as a traditional musical instrument, yet DJ's can debate this successfully because it can be used as a percussion instrument.

"Different" can feel awkward.. Doesn't mean something is wrong..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven, I have always struggled with the fact that I could not really hear the way I sound until it was played back to me on a recording. I never forget the first time I heard myself, I could not stand what I heard.  I think the doctor was right, when we sing, we hear the vibrations in our head.  To me, we can also hear pitch when listening to those vibrations, yet, the actual timbre is lost to me until I hear the playback, that is, if I have recorded the vocal.

Here in West Texas, it is pretty normal in an orchestra rehearsal to hear someone refer to their violin as a "fiddle." Funny how things are so different in various parts of our country. I would love to hear the stories about Jr. High Orchestra.  My younger brother is the high school band director here and at one time, when living in Amarillo, also directed orchestra. When he was in college, he was fortunate to get a chance to play with a couple of Jazz greats who were touring the area and happened to stop in his college town.  My brother is a "percussionist." He makes sure that we know there is a difference in a drummer and a percussionist.

I did not have classical training. My dad sat me down and tought me my first 3 chords on a guitar when I was 12. Since that  time, I would sit and learn under anyone who would not slap me away.  I went to Tuck Andress's website and noticed that he said that he uses a volume pedal. I have been using one for years. I too use an Ernie Ball pedal and it definitely makes a difference in the tone of my guitar.  It is especially great for country music and playing lead.  

I was remembering what Bill Morris, my fiddle player said to me when I started out singing and playing with them.  Bill has worked with, as I said, Elvis, Ray Price, and Jim Reeves, just to name a few.  Trust me, I did not find these guys, they found me. I was playing and singing one night and Bill happened to be in the audience listening to my show.  After the show, he walked up to me and said, "Son, I have a little band that has played all over the country and I think you are as good a singer as anyone I have ever heard. I sure would like to have you come sing with us and see if you like what you hear."  I had no idea who he was and I just took a chance.  The first show I did with them, I was so nervous and timid.  Here I was, mister nothing, playing with these guys who were real pros in country music. I remember I turned my guitar down low and just kept up with them.  I would sing, but I did not just step up and own the stage.  Bill caught me during a break and said this to me and I have not forgotten it. "Son, some of the greats got where they are by taking a chance and when they had an opportunity to shine, they gave it their all. You have what it takes, just dive in and take your shot.  You are going to do fine. You are a winner in my books."  Then he convinced me to turn the volume up some on my guitar and play louder.  He convinced me to take a few lead guitar solos, and when I started to sing, I just cut loose and had fun putting on a show.  When I did that, things really changed. Now, people all over our area know who I am.  I get air play on the radio and to some degree, I have a certain celebrity status that follows me.  I still, after all of that, struggle sometimes when I hear my voice or when I sing.  I dont want to get a big head and think I am so good. I realize there are tons of singers out there who can sing circles around me.  I am just enjoying the fact that for now, people like who I am and they like what I do, even if it is just covers for George Strait, Alan Jackson, Merle Haggard, and a few others.  To me, music will always be mysterious. That is what I love about it.  It amazes me what can happen when I take a guitar in hand and put my fingers on the strings.  My early influences were in bluegrass and gospel.  My dad would sit on the edge of his bed and sing for hours. Later, I started playing along with him and soon we had a family band that would play around the house a couple of nights a week.  Later on in high school, I started playing Merle Haggard covers because I was so suited for country music.  Even though I can play a few tunes by Hendrix, I prefer to play country because geographically, this is a country music part of the world.  I began headlining the Brand New Opree in Odessa Texas back in 76. From there, I have traveled, and sang all over the country at one time or another.  Now, I am married, teaching school and playing for fun on the side with some of the best musicians I have ever had the pleasure to work with. These guys are all very old, but very good.  I am a very lucky man.

This makes total sense !  Thing is similarly, it's often "who likes you", and gives you the shot at exposure is it not ?




One brief question to ponder in areas of Aesthetics such as music:


   "best singer" just a conditioned preference initially force fed to us by promoting agents, and advertising ?  Do you recall THE VERY FIRST time you heard Rod Stewart ?  Mick Jagger ?  Did you "like" their singing voice ?

    Point being, the BEST "singer" in 2020 will be a person likely from a pool that traditionalists would consider TODAY to be "subpar" ability perhaps "centrism" long before 2020...

    Money in music is ability to "cover" what the audience enjoys.  HOWEVER, what the audience enjoys is formulated by business and the listening ear evolves to like whatever it's fed.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Interesting, perhaps I'm having a tough time discerning pitch from timbre Mike.. Because my voice is "pitched" higher on tape to MY ear.. and the timbre... well, just isn't there . IOW... I can tell I am singing perhaps "c" or "Bb" what I can't tell you is which octave it is relative to a musical instrument without playing it back.

Fascinating about "fiddle" being a term allowed in the orchestra where you are.  The term still causes "eye-rolls" among most classical musicians here in conservative Connecticut and much of the Northeast.  Again, this is VERY likely geographic. I'm sure in Branson, Nashville fiddle is accepted too. Again ironically it's the "fiddle" players that probably stand the best chance at making money in music in non-traditional atmospheres.. To play orchestral level violin and "make money" is brutally tough !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Mike, I have two violins downstairs stored. A 3/4 sized decently made model, and a lesser quality 4/4 size... I suppose three including this fellow.. This is a fully playable violin that has all working parts... tuners tune, even a spare bridge came with it, it was picked up in NYC for me as a little gift, bow tightens and loostens and is actually horse hair..  (Frog of course is somewhat small for me as is the chin-rest ... Too bad there's no rosin, only reason I don't play it of course






As you can see, in the B-3 the violin spans roughly only E to Bb.. Just a toy for my collection

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

The bands I played with in the late 60's and 70's all strived to play cover songs as close as possible to the original versions.  I would spend hours listening to Beatle, Cream, Yes, Jethro Tull, Iron Butterfly, Hendrix, Led Zeppelin songs, whatever came along, in order to learn the parts note-by-note. Some of us could read music but we mainly learned our parts by ear. Local bands that sounded like the original were considered the best.  There just wasn't room for being creative.  Looking back at it now it's a little sad that we couldn't be more creative.  It was still fun though.

Todays bands seem to have a totally opposite approach.  If you aren't writing and playing original music, you're not very good.

As far as how we hear our own voices goes, obviously the vibrations from our vocal cords conducting through our head mixes with the external sound coming into our ears.  This makes our voice seem deeper to us then it really is in the outside world.

Steven, you said you had a difficult time being musically creative.  Now if somebody were to compose some lyrics and a just a melody do you think you'd be able to turn that into a structured song with chords, a couple signature riffs here and there and maybe an instrumental lead?  I've been given this job a couple of times.  It's at least easier then coming up with something completely from scratch.

Steven, I also have trouble knowing what note I am singing.  I do know that there are people who have perfect pitch and they can name any note they hear.  They also have the ability to sing the notes themselves on perfect pitch.  This is amazing to me as is the concept of circular breathing for brass and woodwind instrumentalists.
To me, knowing the note I am singing is less important than being sure that I am on pitch. I think I feel comfortable in saying that over a period of time, listening to my recorded voice and working on diction, posture, and other simple mechanics, I have come to at least tolerate what I hear coming from my mouth.  It seems natural to me to listen to how I sing and to be conscious of the need to make certain changes to produce what I feel will be my best sound. I am usually not sure I have accomplished this until I play it back.  Again, I think this is due to hearing vibrations as you suggested in an earlier post.
I get what you were talking about when you said, "This makes total sense !  Thing is similarly, it's often "who likes you", and gives you the shot at exposure is it not ?" but I am not sure I completely agree. The way Bill was putting it that day it seemed more to me he was saying that a person who wants his shot just has to step up and take it. That to me almost seems rude, but maybe there is some truth to it.  I dont think I could be that rude.  I do think you have more of a shot if someone who likes you gives you the chance.

"One brief question to ponder in areas of Aesthetics such as music:
"best singer" just a conditioned preference initially force fed to us by promoting agents, and advertising ?  Do you recall THE VERY FIRST time you heard Rod Stewart ?  Mick Jagger ?  Did you "like" their singing voice ?

   Point being, the BEST "singer" in 2020 will be a person likely from a pool that traditionalists would consider TODAY to be "subpar" ability perhaps "centrism" long before 2020... "
Steven, the first time I heard Jagger and Rod Stewart, I was not impressed. I could not for the life of me see what the music executives saw in these guys.  The more I listened to them, the more my ear did become accustomed to what the industry had me listening to.  I think to some extent, the music industry has evolved to the point where being an excellent singer or musician is not as important as having a marketable look. I think it is true, sex sells and from what I hear in todays music market, appearance seems more important than talent. We have tons of "one hit wonders," getting the spotlight with their appearance not so much with their musical talent.  At least that is  what I see anyway.  Almost leaves an  old dog like me on the sideline. I have no idea what people will have to endure in music in 2020, but if the  trend continues, "subpar" musicians and vocalists will be more at home on the cover of a fashion mag. than on stage doing live performances.  I cringe at the thought of working with some of these guys in a studio!
I like the violin pictures, and the B3 is an incredible instrument.  I have always loved the sound of them.

Odie, I agree with what you are saying about hearing the voice inside of yourself. It does sound deeper than it really is.
If I understand Steven correctly. He is saying he has the same problem I have when it comes to creativity.  I can start out with something original and before it is finished, it sounds like someone else's song. I can usually tell what the songs lyrics originally were and it frustrates me.  I want so badly to be able to create something no one else has ever done. Somehow, I often feel like some of the poets of the 18th century like Whitman and others who felt that everything has already been done by someone somewhere before.  I say that and then my daughter will call me to come listen to something she has written. She will take her guitar in hand or sit at her keyboard and sing me something completely original.  I get frustrated by that. I think Steven has a point, we have come from a generation that was so involved in covers that there was no time for creativity.  We have molded ourselves to avoid constructive thinking and we continue to follow the rote methods of musicianship we have followed throughout our careers.--Mike

Perfect Pitch opens up a HUGE discussion Mike ..  While most believe relative pitch is developed, many believe perfect pitch is a physical condition a person is born with.  Those I know that have it describe it as a curse, and acute sensitivity.. Migraines, and many discomforts stem from it.. I had a music prof who every hour would throw his hands over his ears and look as tho he was in excruciating pain..  The minute hand when it hit the hour was slightly off A-440 and George Green suffered.. At first we believed this was just some histrionic dance he was doing.. Later we found out that many with perfect pitch do suffer side affects of this birth condition.. Not sure I'd wish for it to be honest.  While infomercials advertise it can be developed most (I think) agree that perfect pitch is something an individual either is born with, or will not acquire.. RELATIVE pitch enables the person to retain pitch reference tho..
    This school of thought however might VERY well have changed in the past two decades when I last referenced it.  It can be an interesting although heated discussion among musicologists, and the medical field.


Circular breathing..  That was developed by Dizzie Gillespie was it not ?  The Gillespie "Pouches" where air was stored in the cheeks enabling a more continuous means of blowing into his horn while taking air in through the nostrils down to the lungs..  That requires QUITE the embouchure and I thought was more of a nuance.. I guess people are learning it now ?  Interesting..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Don,  barring total abstraction, Where there's melodic flow within any structured compositional framework, chords are already implied. Music styles most of us in western cultures are familiar with follows set progressions,  predictable movement, resolution, and cadence.. where there's a foundation, structure exists in most cases, meaning chords often imply melodic improvisational content and vice versa. Point being in certain styles there are very limited choices regarding underlying chords..  Little creativity is involved in solving this type construction puzzle..

The question is,  Will I turn what the composer intends to be somewhat innovative into "Stormy Monday" blues ?     Quite likely !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".