Karaoke Forums

I currently have an Onkyo receiver with an old mixer hook up into it.  This weekend I am planning to shop for a new audio system for Karaoke.  What I am looking for is a new Mixer, 2 decent speakers, and probably an Amp and sub-woofer.  I've been to many karaoke bar and notice that most of their system doesn't have enough echos..."reverb in technical terms right?".  They all sounded "raw and flat".  The audio that comes out of the speakers are not blend in..it's like the singers voice and the background music are on two different wave....So here are the things that I would like to achieve in the system that I am going to get:

1.  What different hardwares do I need to have a good quality karaoke audio system?  I know it also depends on the size of the room...but I would like a system that I can add one or two more speakers in the future with out any problems.

2.  I am looking for a karaoke audio system that I can boost up the echo of the mic.  Is there a separate hardware I can buy to boost up the echo of the mic?

3.  What do I need to boost up the mic so that the singer don't have to scream into the mic and the sound still comes out loud and clear.  In the past I've boost up the mic volume on the mixer....but that just ends up the feed back noise...

4.  I am still debating if I should get the commercial big black tall speakers with the commercial amp.  Or stick with a nicer looking speaker and  the residential receiver like Onkyo to get the quality loud sound.  I am thinking to go with the big black speakers with the amp...but I just want to throw it out there to see the pro and con's about both.

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

Music stores sell PA systems.  Talk to someone that is knowledgeable about the equipment, not some Bozo. That's what you want.  Buy a Mixer, reverb unit, compressor, amplifier/s, microphones, speakers, sub, crossover and speaker cables.  It won't be cheap.

Then set it up and practice mixing a bunch of songs.  The key to quality karaoke is knowing what you are doing and how to properly use all of your equipment.  

You have heard enough bad examples, now do what you need to do to be better than the competition.

Is this for home use or are you running shows?

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It's for home...but sometimes I have some small company party..so I guess it's for business as well...So I am looking for something that I can upgrade if the small parties gets bigger..

Thanks

Part of this depends on your budget. If you didn't have one, I would suggest something like:

            Yamaha MGX mixer
            Lexicon MX-200 effects
            DBX EQ
            Mackie powered speakers SRM350 (3, one for monitor)
            Mackie SWA1501 subwoofer
            Shure SM58 wireless mic
            Sennheiser 945 supercardiod wired mic
           
That will set you back a cool $4,500 (3,900 without monitor). It will sound great at a high pro level, and have good resale value. It will blow away most bar karaoke setups.

Here is something like what I put together for $2,000 or so ($1920 if you can the monitor speaker):

             Behringer PMH1000 powered mixer
             Behringer EP2500 power amp
             Lexicon MX200 effects
             Behringer Ultragraph 3102 EQ
             BBE sonic enhancer/crossover
             Peavy PR10 pair
             Peavey PR sub
             Kustom KPC10M
             Shure SM58 wired mic
             AKG WMS40 wireless mic

It won't sound as good, but it will sound a lot better than 90% of the bar karaoke setups I have seen (and I have seen 80 or 90). It will be excellent for home use, and the speakers are very light and portable. I use a system like this, and it is the best sounding small-venue system in my area by a pretty good margin. ( I am an amateur host, and I use this at home but also at parties and functions. No bars.)

It won't have anywhere near the resale value, though.

At the low end, you can get something like:

            Behringer PMH880S
            Peavey PR-12 speakers (2)
            Behringer XM8500 wired mics (2)

That will sound reasonable for a home system -- for $700 or so.

There are some in between points. Check the PA packages at Musician's Friend, ZZounds, and Guitar Center.

mckyj57...thanks for the detailed recommendations....I really like the top recommendation from you...I would get it for myself in the near future.  But this weekend my friend and I are going to get a system for him...so I think the second option is more afforable for him...but do you think if I mix some component from the first and the second option together...Do you think it will work and would it allow me to upgrade in the future?

This is what I put together...but I don't know if it would work:

Mixer:
-Behringer PMH1000 powered mixer ($300)
This is more affordable at the moment than the Yamaha MGX mixer ..but what's good about the Yamaha MGX mixer ???  It looks really nice and high tech...but would a regular user benefit from it???
FX:
-Lexicon MX-200 effects ($200) From what I've been reading..is this the thing that I need to get more echos in the vocal right????
Speakers:
-Mackie SRM350 2-Way Active PA Speaker ($550 x 2 = $1100)
Looks like this is the mose recommended speaker here...In one of the other post on speakers..somebody suggested the JBL X something...it goes for $1900 a pair...so this is afforable...I guess I won't go wrong with it...
Sub:
-I already have an old sub that I would like to use at the moment.....will buy Mackie SWA1501 subwoofer later.  But would all the component here work with an old sub?
Mic:
-Already have..but will buy the Shure SM58 when needed...

Can you explain briefly on what this would do?  What's the benefits?  Do I really need now?
- Behringer Ultragraph 3102 EQ
- BBE sonic enhancer/crossover

Do I need this for to current setup that I suggested above?  Or should I get it so that I can upgrade in the future?
-Behringer EP2500 power amp

I notice that the first option you didn't recommend any amp..but the second one you did recommend the Behringer EP2500 power amp.  So here's my questions...
In what scenario do I need an amp and why...?  I read something about Power Speakers that have amp built in already..so I guess that's why amp is not needed?  So is good to get power speakers and not use any amp.  Or get non power speaker and get the amp to use with it...Or it's best to get the amp be use with power speakers??

Mixer.... I am a little bit confused about "power mixer" too...is that the same thing as the power speakers where the amp is built into the mixer?  Can a power mixer be use with power speaker or non power speaker?  And does the amp needed when you have the power mixer and power speaker???

Sorry for the newbie questions..I've read the forum for 3 days now...and I am not really clear on it..can you shine the light on me?

Thanks!!!

The Yamaha would yield better sound quality & overall reliability.  Behringer is generally a more 'disposable' unit (although some do have good luck with them).  But with the powered speakers you have outlined below, there is no need for a powered mixer as well.  It sounds like you have little experience with sound gear (not trying to be a jerk).  This may be more of a complex system than you want to begin with.  Consider a Mackie DFX6 or DFX12 for the mixer.



Yes this is your effects processor for reverbs, delays, choruses, among others.  If you go with the Mackie DFX mixer, it has a built in effects processor that will be sufficient for you to learn some basic mixing.



Good speakers.  Would definitely want to run a sub for outdoors & larger rooms.  Consider another alternative (I recommended at bottom).



What kind of sub?  Is it powered - if not you'll need a separate amp?  Does it have a built in crossover - if not you'll need a separate crossover (which you can utilize for the 350's as well) or would need an amp with a crossover built in?  



Good choice with the Shure.



Graphic equalizer allowing you to aid with feedback control and or tonal shaping (changing the sound of bass/midrange/high frequencies in your speakers).  Nice to have, but not a necessity until you learn a little more, could actually cause worse sound improperly adjusted.



'Enhancer' This is a frequency aligner, helps crispen up the mix, adds some punch to the low end.  Do you need it, probably not but again, nice to have.  Now the crossover part may be needed for your sub/main speakers.



Well depending on your sub, you may need a power amp, however, you'd have to know the subs power handling capability & ohms rating before we could recommend an amp to match it.  If you can get the subs make/model at the very least & then if it states power handling, looking for continuous/rms/program/peak ratings if any are listed.



In his first scenerio he was outlining powered speakers (these have the amps built in).  The second scenerio the speakers are passive (needing an outside amp to power).  As far as to which is better amp vs no amp, it depends on your overall plans.  Separate amps & passive speakers gives you greater flexibility for expanding, however you have to know how to properly match the amp to the speaker.  Powered speakers are great because the amp built in is already matched for the speakers for peak efficiency but then you are basically locked into them as far as upgradability - not a huge deal, you could always buy a second pair for more power.



The powered mixer also has a built in amp.  You would not need to have powered speakers with a powered mixer - you CAN run it to work, but you would basically just be spending extra money for the amp part of the mixer that you'd pretty much not use.  Stick with the powered speakers, a simple mixer until you get some knowledge & experience in some basic sound gear.  The little DFX mixer & a decent set of powered speakers would give you a nice little home system that you'd still be able to run some basic little parties with & won't be disappointed in the sound.



It's the only way to learn, always ask!

So again, my recommendation would be for
Mackie DFX12 mixer
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=634264

Even though the Mackies are good, here is a little 3 piece powered system that is a good little system as well.  The B52 Matrix 1000, 2 satellite speakers & a powered sub. and a little cheaper & give quite a bit of punch.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=606060

I would forgo the effects processor at this time, the DFX has one built in.  The system is easy to learn, will sound great in the home & won't break the bank.  ($1100)

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I suggested the powered mixer for two reasons:

  1) if you are going to have a monitor speaker you need an amp
  2) It is common for home users to want to put together a little rig that is quite portable. I can put the mics and speaker cables in the pocket of my mixer bag, toss my PMH3000 and the PR-10s in the trunk of the car,  and have a respectable portable karaoke ready to go in 10 minutes. One that won't strain my 50+-year-old back beyond repair.

There are obviously many ways to skin a cat. Lonman's recommendation of the Mackie mixer and the B-52 is probably the best  one for you. Not quite as portable, but not too bad since it has wheels and a case. It has a good bit more punch than my little sub-less setup.

Probably people are right in that you don't *really* need a monitor speaker, but it sure can be useful to the singer -- and the host -- depending on your setup. Sometimes I forget that other people aren't as head-over-heels crazy about this stuff as I am, and I forget where I was when I started out.

Thank you for all your replies and especially to mckyj57 and Lonman for your superb detailed replies and suggestions.  I've learned a lot from you guys...I am really into Karaoke...but I know nothing about the audio part of it.  I am an IT person so my current karaoke setup is computerize of course.  All of my songs are organized and duplicates are filtered out via database..  I use a Hosting software to host not just cdg, but vob, avi, wmv and soon to be x264. An Access database for the software to pull song from when play...with the support of SQL as the main database for cleaning out duplicate and comparing...  So here is my new put together setup from both of your suggestions:

Mixer:
Mackie DFX12
I would consider the Yamaha for the future when I help with the local Karaoke Bar.

Speakers:
B-52 Matrix-1000 V2 700W
Does this speaker handle Rap and Hip Hop??  I like my music with a lot of base...well not to the point I can hear the rumble..but nice deep bass... I would get a few of the Mackie SMR450 for the Karaoke Bar

FX:
Lexicon MX200
I will get this later...after I play around with the pre-built in FX in the mixer...Again I really want a lot of echos...so I am probably going to get!!!

Sub:
I don't need one because the B-52 Matrix-1000 V2 700W already has it.  But I would get the Mackie SWA1501 for the Karaoke Bar.

So what do you guys think about the above high purchase suggestion??

Thanks!!!

Well honestly you may find you won't need to upgrade from any of it when you get going.  Maybe the speakers once you get into actual club settings, but those will still fill smaller clubs fine - yes they will handle all types of music, but don't crank the bass up to compensate, if you aren't satisfied with the bass level, then yes you'd need speaker/amp upgrades.  These speakers will definitely put out more bass than the Mackie 350 (without a sub).  The mixer you won't really HAVE to change, I know alot of karaoke companies that run that very mixer in clubs.  
As far as wanting alot of echo (reverb), this may be your personal choice, the proper way to set up reverb (or any vocal effect) is so that you can't really hear the effect but you'll notice if it wasn't there.  Now there are always exceptions to the rules for certain songs, but don't try to hide behind a bunch of effect, not only will it really muddy up the sound, can cause major feedback but does nothing for the sound of vocals.

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I have this same unit and it is a good one for what it cost. I hope when you say ' I really want a lot of echos...' you mean a lot of choice of presets and NOT tons of it. Most better singers like some kind of vocal effect but not too much. I have sang in a place where the KJ love using effect to the limit; the echo from the first line of the song can still be heard when I enter the 2nd verse.

For preset on that unit , you may want to search mckyj57 posting history. He post a nice set of preset for different genres of songs. Use that as a starting point.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Roger on this. The reason I like the MX200 is that it has great effects that you don't really notice that much. Until you have to put up with other units, that is.

I would love to get some settings on the Alesis MultiMix or the Behringer mixers which approach the Lexicon, but nothing does. The best I have seen is the "10" on my PMH3000. The 00 on Alesis is ok if you keep the level down, but I have tried 26, 79, 93, and some others trying to match the Big Pop/Nashville/Easy/Retroverb presets on the Lexicon without much luck.

I was a bit disappointed in the documentation of the presets on the Alesis. If they matched the Microverb it would be nice, as those are documented, but I don't think they do.

I am under the assumption she wants tons of it & not choices - which if she wants to go into any clubs, will have to not use a lot.  After reading her opening post this is her complaint that not enough reverb is being used.  Chances are enough is being used for a technical standpoint (provided the kj knows what he's doing with the sound).  But again, properly set-up, you don't want to hear alot of effect ie reverb, but would notice if it wasn't there at all.

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I would be skeptical of a company that uses the term as opposed to giving specific coil diameter and material used such as is it an aluminum voice coil or copper? Is it stamped steel or a cast basket? I personally would need more information to base my discission on. Just keep in mind, a system is only as good as it's weakest link. Do a lot of homework and save yourself a lot of grief. I'd also like to ad, whatever you get, get something you can build on, not something your going to out grow and have to replace.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

Just recommending what i've used/tested & have set up for others that have been more than happy with the recommend.  The company offers 5 year warranty on drivers & lifetime on cabinets.  
User reviews are usually pretty encouraging as well when most of them are rating this system 4 to 5 (out of 5) stars on many different sites.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=606060

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Ok thanks for ALL suggestions and comments...I will get for now and hope that it's good and have some room to upgrades:

Mackie DFX12 Mixer
B-52 Matrix

I will get an amp and a sub if the B-52 Matrix doesn't output the amount of bass that I am looking for.  And of course the Lexicon MX200...because the people that I hang out with likes the *fake* sound because they can't sing...so with a lot echos that would make them sounds better...but just enough...


Thanks again for the help !!!

another thing you might want to pic up is a set of nadi wierless  in ear monitors,so you can monitor your preformance on the fly.
nadi has a unit thats doesnt cost you a arm and leg and gives you a good sound.
the resson you get feed back is ether your monitor id feeding back through your mic,
or you are walking out into the line of you speakers,or your eq is to brite.
also you can use a feed-back destroyer on your system or get a pa with it built in.
hope this is of some help.

p.s. big speakers is not the answer,and every room has a differant eq with its on built in re-verbes,so youal have to mix defferant every place you go