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I didnt mean to Imply that Just Because you are in a Bar, You are supposed to throw profanities as every adjective.

Rather that Alcohol, Tends to loosen the Morals and the social Inihibitions. There is no way Not to offend anyone in every situation. I am not offended if I walk into a crowded bar and sit down next to a smoker, and he lights up.

I am Offended however if I am 40 feet away in a section of the bar where there are several other non-smokers, and a Chain-smoker sits next to me and lights his cig, just to sit in the ashtray just to odorize the space.

same with the Lyrics........

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

The real issue I have with this whole matter of offensive lyrical content is where do you draw the line?  Let's face it - there's a lot more to "maintaining a family atmosphere" than simply removing songs with profanity.  

Well I guess all the songs that are about drug use like "White Rabbit", "Eight Miles High", "Because I Got High", "Smoke Two Joints", "Cocaine", "Mother's Little Helper", "Casey Jones", "Comfortably Numb", etc., etc,. etc,. have to go.  

Then there's the songs with sexual content like "Show Them To Me", "Sweat (A La La La La Long)", "Sledgehammer" (sexual innuendo), "Feel Like Making Love", "When Doves Cry", "Let's Get It On", "Sexual Healing", "Paradise By The Dashboard Lights", "I Melt With You", "A Little Bit More" (Dr. Hook) etc,. etc,.

Oh, then there's the songs about murder and retribution like "Delilah", "Goodbye Earl", "Before He Cheats", and some other songs that can hardly be considered "positive".  

What about songs like "Suicide Solution" by Ozzy Osbourne???

So what we're left with is a sanitized songbook with half the songs missing.  Have fun singing "Rocky Top" if that is still permitted in the book.  

MOST karaoke shows are in venues restricted to those 21 years of age and older.  These are not "family" venues here.

I am not suggesting that ANYTHING whatsoever should be permitted to be said over a microphone.  Those who start addding profanity to songs in excess WILL be cut off at any show I run.  IF it's in the song, fine.  I'm just not convinced that allowing "Novacaine For The Soul" - Eels which has ONE F word in it to be sung will "cheapen" a show - oh pullleeeze!

And for the record, I don't really care for the gangsta rap that Sidewinder despises either.  Fortunately, rap is RARELY done at the shows I frequent.

Mike,

  As soon as I saw your post I felt compelled to see your location.  After viewing your location I have a slightly better idea of why this might be.  First off,  Isn't Dutch Harbor Alaska (out in the Aleutians) technically a "Dry" location, that might have a larger resort or two with special alcohol permits ?  But essentially the natives still dislike the travelers, and military that come by and don't respect the more or less puritanical views ?  Aren't you in about as conservative a location as one can be at least in terms of natives to the location ?

Just Curious.  Point being, Like it or not, audience type is the determinant as to what is deemed as "acceptable".

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I don't care if i'm in a bar or not, why should I be forced to hear someone dropping f-bombs all night.  Show how immature they really are more than anything.  But then again most of the shows I support don't allow this kind of behavior, the ones that do are generally just drunk idiots that just want to scream on the mics.

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

{It's depends on the venue that you are playing}

exactly..dive patrons tend to gravitate to dive bars.

So everything decent and respectable will go out the window.  F bombing and such will be the prevailing M.O.    Decent respectable people will steer clear and frequent more upscale establishments.   Out of fear and normality.   The KJ has the control of the show.  The bar behavior is how it is, because of the KJ.  And the bar owner, if that's the kind of joint he wants to be the proud owner of.  I prefer to upgrade my cliental to something better, without fear of fighting and disrespect.  That's how mama raised me.   I would hope and pray that this is the majority of thinking.  :hi5:

The bar business is very competitive and many get into it thinking they will make a decent living off it. Hubby's Monday night gig, where he's been for 2-1/2 years, and is busy every Monday night, is in what I call a "diaper bar."  We occasionally get the more mature crowd in, but it is more often than not filled with the homies who live in the area - average age probably 24. The guy makes a killing off these kids - all you have to do is watch round after round of $5 shots hit the tables. This is 99% of the crowd. We've given up trying to draw our usual more mature, singing-focused crowd in there.  So they are singing to each other when they sing their F-BOMB songs. As long as the owner is making money, his attitude is 'whatever keeps those kids happy' and the guy has been a successful owner for years.

Believe me, not my preference, but in the bar biz, I guess you do what you have to to make a good living. BTW, he just put in 20 new flat-screen tvs in (replacing ones that weren't very old), doing a lot of nice stone tile work, etc., so you know his accountant told him he'd better spend some money in the place -- Can you say 'write-off'?

I don't see where you are "Forced" to do or hear anything. If I want to Be in a "Sterile Environment" I would go to an Upscale Country Club Bar .  

I don't expect to hear every other word spoken or sang in a bar to be sensless and pointless Gangsta language. However, I am not expecting  a local bar to follow the same standards as the local Baptist church. If I wanted to be in church I would be. If I should slip and say damn in a Bar, so be it.

Most all establishments have their standards. as They well should have. No Need for Political Intervention.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

Karen, the same rings true in my venues as well.

It's an unfortunate thing having to accept the bad behavior of our youth, but in the end, the bottom line is the venue gets paid first, then we get our cut.

We get the youths too & with a little training & enforcement, they will accept the rules.  We don't allow any swearing over the mics, even pulled all songs with swearing out of the books (there may be an exception here & there where i'll let somebody do something but it completely is dependent on the song & whether I can trust them to edit themselves).  These weren't my rules, but the bar rules.  Again, we lost our rowdy college crowd, but gained a better crowd behavior wise, better spenders overall & better singers to boot.
But again, a little enforcement will go along way & 99% of the time they are cool with it & are fine with it.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If i had to play to the diaper crowd to make my karaoke living, i would quit.   If you know how to run a decent show, you don't get the diaper gang.   As Lonman says, you can control the final outcome.   I said YOU.  Not the singers, not the bar owner....YOU.  I will continue to be in control of my shows.  I don't give the bar owner the option about how i run my show or about the kind of music i will play or the kind of crowd i will attract.   This is my show, done my way.  If you want me, it will be as i run it.  I can build a nice respectable bar crowd, everytime.  Not just once in a while.   Because i control every aspect of my show.  If you want to swear all night, you can sing somewhere else.  I you want to disrespect my equipment, you can sing somewhere else.

At the end of the night there will be no trouble.  Hardly ever a fight.  I can't control total idiots that want to see how fast they can get drunk.  Your crowd will be respectable, decent, calm, fun loving, not totally out of control, they will come early and stay all night, because there will be nothing happening to chase them away, and most importantly, you will make money.  There is an art to respectable karaoke and i have mastered it.

I don't care if it is a bar, yes I know people are stupid & will talk vulgar at their tables.  This is a problem I can remedy, I will move to another table.  But when I am just in the audience & listening to singers & some idiot starts cursing through the entire song over the mic, now the choice is to take my money elsewhere or be 'forced' to be subjected to that kind of language.  Luckily (again) most of the clubs I support do have hosts that control their singers and don't accept the kind of language.  And you know what they are still packed with good singers.

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

Is THIS why you are now looking for more jobs AND trying to get paid a better show-rate?

That's great you've mastered certain skills but it seems F-L-E-X-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y isn't one of them. You might need to be reminded that the OWNERS of the venues have a final say in everything, including your job. Some are micro-managers who watch the til and flow very carefully.-- AND your job. As long as the money is GREEN coming in, a lot of bars bars don't even care about a "reputation" ,unless it's really terrible, because that affects cash-flow.

I do, however, agree that it IS better to build a quality show if you're able. The older crowd, if the majority, can and does, with the guidance of the kj, can control the obscene and profane monsters from degrading a show.

But, if the majority of your singers are young, selfish, cool-and-hip (ha!) then you're sh*t outta luck trying to CONTROL every aspect of their behavior.


Your FINAL OUTCOME you mentioned might be 10 good singers who behave and that's all. Where's the profit? Do the owners care about etiquette MORE than profit? The many young karaoke singers, in my experience, outweigh the mature crowds by a factor of at least 8. You gotta cater to them to increase revenue...and YOUR rate.


Besides, you need to be in an area that has good well behaved singers THAT ALSO actually EAT and drink to support your shows. Perhaps you are, i don't know.

Some of my professional singers here are water-drinkers! The tourists offset these singers (thank gawd) and management knows their great singing skills actually draw more people in. But our young singers are the ones that spend the most money and come in droves. As a result, the profits are ludacris, and the owners opened another location.

I'm responding to your post because it sounds EGO-driven and it'll kill your business if you decide to go the karaoke-host-nazi route....that would be bad.  -j.r.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned "Cocky" by Kid Rock.  Two F-Bombs in the chorus.  I've sung the song myself and the bar always loves it.  I change the words a little bit to fit, and I know every word.  Of course, the f-word gets no extra emphasis, it's just another word in the song - same for any profane word.  In fact, I think "bleeping" the words call more attention to them than letting them air.  And as far as the song goes, it's not something I do all the time.  It also depends on the crowd and what the other singers are singing - kind of a judgment call thing.  If it's a show where I've never sung it before at, I always give the KJ a heads up when I turn it in.  I've yet to have one say I cannot do the song, but I would respect the KJ's wishes and wouldn't harbor any ill will towards the KJ if I was told I could not sing it.

But like Lonman said earlier - dropping the f-bomb for the sake of saying it is irritating/annoying/etc.  You're just embarrassing yourself, and you look like a jack@$$ when you do that.

Yeah...for YEARS i had to listen to "It's Been Awhile" by Staind every single night, sometimes 3 times a night, complete with it's colorful lyrics. It was embarassing for me at first, and was fearful it would turn-off some patrons, but it never happened.

I did, however, make separate karaoke books (what a momumental pain) for my corporate gigs, so vulgar language or lyrics never became an issue.

Right now, hip hop is becoming a problem- even with clean screen lyrics- the singers know the real words and happily fill them in, sometimes too much. You can't cut someone off midsong if they're singing improper-but correct lyrics.

I don't do hip hop/rap music.  That eliminates all the trouble makers, at one time.    I will not force myself or my cliental to endure that type of punishment.

It's not my EGO.  It's how i choose to do business.  I have high standards that i have set for myself and my company.  It's part of my reputation.    Which happens to be very good.  And i'm not going to force myself to play music that i totally hate, just to make a dollar.  I will not play (refuse) in many area bars because of what they attract.  That's how you control your show.   I am not a starving KJ.  I do not work for food and drinks or FREE.    It's my worth.    Everyone has a worth.  Some are worth more and some are worthless.

If the bar owner doesn't like what i do they are free to hire someone else.   If you don't like how the roofer put your shingles on, next time you get someone else.

If i see a bunch of young'uns acting goofy, i will start singing oldies or country music.   After a while they will leave.    No hip hop and swear words and they leave.   That's how i maintain my show quality.   Works every time.    It's about the quality, i force it on my bar owners and singers.   I ram it down their throat.   They never know what hit them.   I force it on the young'uns too.  Everyone is equal.   They get with the program or they leave.

They are free to go to a karaoke show that will cater to them.  I refuse.    If it means a few less dollars in the till...oh well.   But the quality is there.  The respect is there.   My good reputation is there.   The bar owners good reputaion is there.   Nobody got beat up.    Nobody got offended.    Nobody got mad.   Everybody of quality will return.    That's what matters.   The bar owners never even know what i'm doing.  But they can see the big crowd.  They can see alcohol sales.   They can see people laughing and having fun.   They can see no trouble makers.   If the cops are called too many times they start to keep a close eye on the bar.  They may even involve the LCB.   They could be sited for being a nuisance bar.  Too many calls you get shut down for good.  NO INCOME.   I am in demand because of what i provide.   Which knowingly or unknowingly they get.    Not EGO, good business sense.   Steady quality work.   No kindegarden antics.   I'm not anybody's babysitter.    No diaper changing.   No bottle feedings.   No childishness.  Mature adults singing and having a very good time...That's what i provide.   Not many can say that.

Actually, and I don't know if your reference to 'diapers' stems from my post, but fact is, we have a lot of fun at the Monday night gig. We enjoy being around the kids, they respect us, they enjoy hubby's hosting (although he is somewhat hard of hearing he is apparently very cool to them)....So what if they like to cuss a little? Like I said, they're only cussing amongst themselves. No fights, no arguments...just singing the most modern songs that are playing on the radio and on MTV. I buy them the stuff, they sing it. Not a lot of rap (most people can't do it well enough), and some of the more intricate hip hop stuff is beyond them, as well...but we have a steady, well established gig, close to home...owner isn't on the premises, never has to call us with problems. All in all, I'd say a pretty successful business relationship, and a great relationship with the kids.  Just like in public anywhere, I have learned to block the foul language, even in the songs.

Different story at other gigs - I have a great Fri night gig where it just wouldn't be appropriate for a bunch of cussing, due to the fact that a lot of what we do is entertain the nonsingers. Tonight there were 5 very good singers who took turn doing requests, etc., and it would never occur to anyone in there to get rowdy.

I suppose being a mature female, I have that "mother" look that will cause the trouble makers to scatter like scared squirrels, and that's fine with me. I don't abuse the privilege, however.

K

PS: There are enough 'KARAOKE NAZI's' around. Don't need more.  (I know of a guy who has that kind of a reputation...he doesn't get much work anymore for his complete inflexibility. Rather sad because he used to be so busy.)

K

Watch what happens to a quality crowd if the young'uns start rapping and swearing.  The quality will get up and leave.  That is not my objective.  If i want anyone to leave, it's the swearing rappers.   99% of the time it's wannabe rappers.  White kids that wish they could do something.   It's cool to act famous and swear in front of everyone.    Not on my watch, kiddy rock...

I'll take my chances.

I know from here on out, i'll get my higher price at every job.   The cheap KJs are all around and available to work every night of the week.  :shock:  Because nobody wants them.

PS: There are enough 'KARAOKE NAZI's' around. Don't need more.

So we should provide a place (public venue) where the kids can vent all their drunkin anger and foul language.   You are doing a quality community service...are you in the phone book?  Under karaoke day care?

I fail to see the need to give them an outlet to uncontrolled swearing in a public environment.    Am i missing something?

Sidewinder, it sounds like you're in a market where you can afford to weed-out the bad from the good, in terms of behavior.

I think MOST kjs want to appeal to everyone and somehow set the tone for good behavior. Most bars have a hard enough time just getting people in the door, and kjs can't get the same good singers every single show they do.

If you can afford to ostracize the "hip-hop singing kids" which represent at least 70% of this countries youth, then more power to ya! If i did that, i'd have a handful of OLD singers doing the same songs night after night, barely drinking, never eating, and i'd be out of a job real quick!

So...are you in a town or venue that can afford to turn down the town's youth and still make a decent profit for the bar and yourself? Dreaming and wishing is one thing, living the reality is another. I don't know, but i am asking ya!