Karaoke Forums

Just looking for better ways to manage our rotation.

How many singers do you allow in your first rotation?
.. How do you add in new singers?

We usually start with a rotation of 10 and add in a new singer every other with previous singers. However, when it starts getting busy, a previous singer who was in 8th position is now at 16th in a matter of minutes. But on the other hand if you add new singers in every 3 or 4 singers, they could very well sit for over an hour before they sing.. Eeeck

Just looking for what works for others...

I have no cut off point as far as how many singers.
First round is first come first serve, once I hit about 10-15 I will start the round over inserting new singers in between the old.  And it is true that the 8th singer can now be the 16th, but say your 10 start rotation, if you didn't do that & you still had new singers coming in that get to the end of the line, then those orignal 10 are still going to have to wait, but even if the new singers get added to the bottom, the wait is still there, but actually makes some of the old singers wait longer, if you insert the new singers in between the old, then at least the old singers are still getting up instead of waiting for an entire block of new singers.

That's my take, you will definitely get other views on this one!

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I am same as Lon on this one.

No cut-off to how many singers in the rotation

If the rotation is small (10 or less) new singers get added to the bottom.  If the rotation gets big I will add new singers in amongst the current singer in the rotation.

One thing that I do if the rotation gets big, I announce that we have X amount of singers in the rotation and that it may be a long wait for peeps to sing.  I guess-tamate times by figuring each singer will take about 3.5 to 4 minutes of the rotation.  It works pretty good most times, but there are always the "divas" that get upset if they are not singing at least 2-3 times a hour.

I do it about the same, though it is rare when I get those really big rotations.

I like to reward people who show up early, so they get preference and sometimes will get to sing twice before some late arrivals sing once.

If it is a real good singer -- we don't have many -- then I might cheat and stick them in for their first song a bit earlier. No one seems to mind that. But once the rotation starts, it doesn't change in relationship. A new singer can sometimes get inserted, but people don't lose their place.

Technically it matters where you put them.  But after the rotation gets so big.  An hour rotation, is an hour rotation.  Doesn't matter where you are in it.   It will take 1 hour to sing again, from any point in the rotation.   It won't matter if you are before or after 10 new singers.   You just need to be fair about it  and consistant.

I really glad to hear that I'm not doing this wrong. Most of my singers are as new to this as I am, but sometimes I'll get a veteran who will complain because I insert new singers into the rotation. But I always let everyone on the board sing at least once first. And I try to be sensitive about insertions, leaving groups of singers intact and inserting only in the creases and cracks. And I never bring anyone "right up"... it's on four or five at the least. And once that slot is taken, that's it. They're locked in.

Some of the other KJs in  my area must not do it that way or I wouldn't be hearing about it. But now I've got an excuse..."well every KJ on this discussion board does it that way..."

One club I go to basically has no rotation because it takes all night for each singer to sing once.  They seem to average about 75 singers.

Another club has about 15 singers and you get about three rotations. Rotation seems to be everyone sings first rotation even if they are late. Then everyone sings second rotation with new singers added at the end. Same one third rotation.  

Another venue has an automatic system which I just posted about in the "Do you allow repeats of same song by different people" thread (it allows it).  Anyway with this system each singer has a username and password so they can look up and enter their song at a terminal. The system will only allow one song to be entered per username until you have sung that song. It keeps a perfect rotation posting the list on a big screen near the stage.  As soon as you finish singing you can go back and enter your next song. It also seems to be able to play the songs without the KJ although he is usually there.  

Jim-n-TN

If it requires a "user name" and "password", I avoid it like the plague.

Oops, how did this get posted?

Seriously, though, I hate the whole "user name" thing.  I do avoid making purchases at websites that require such nonesense.  Life has gone on too long, successfully, without "usernames", even on the web.  It was kinda "cute" when the internet took off, but, now, let's lighten up, please?

Start doing something like that and you will have to hire your own technical support team to come with you every night.  You'll have to charge $10,000 a show.  Can't even get $100 a night.

And the waiting time would expire before you sang one song.

We are the odd one: we use the Fix Table Rotation:
It is not the singer that is in the rotation but the tables. All tables are given numbers; the bar counter too. Thus we have T1 to T20 for tables if the bar/club have that many tables, and C1 to C4 for the bar counter.

Start the night from T1 or C1.

New customers will be inserted in depending on where they sit. So if the current singer is from T5 and the new guys sat on T6 then he is the next singer but if he is seated in T4 then he will have full round of waiting.

The down side of this system is that if a table have 5 singers then they will have to take turn to sing when the table is called up. Where as a table with just one singer, that singer will sing in every ration.

The good thing is duet is not a problem, because it is not the singers that count but the table. so people with more singers in a table sometime share the song and do duet all night.

Also, the max. number of rotation is known. and people can see how long the rotation will last from the number of table occupied. There is no way a KJ can skip a table cos everybody will notice it.

Non-spending and tap water-drinking 'pro singers' sitting with their beer drinking non-singer buddies now are part of a paying crowd.

The Kj can keep multiple song slips and arrange them by tables. there is no need to do a sing one request one. it is normal for table to send in multiple request slip.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

WOW  :O  LMAO

Hey Jian, that is different, but sounds like it could work quite well in some places...  One place I was at had a group of about 12 come in half way through the night, sat at a table and everyone in the group put in their individual requests...  whenever one singer from the group was called, the whole table got up and sang... unfortunately the KJ let this go on so that for the next 12 songs we had the same group singing (badly)...  a lot of people in the bar left!  

Your sytem would certainly address that kind of situation.  Could also be a good way for the guy sitting alone at a table to get some company at his table too!  :)

Another system that seems to work well for large (and small) rotations where people come in late is the one I have seen used at the Auckland Casino.   KJ uses a whitebard and each singer has their name only once on the board at a time.  Each time a singer completes their song, their name is added to the end of the list.  The singers can see on the board how many singers are before them and can work out approximately how long they have to their next song.

All karaoke lounges here use this system, so every customers know about it. And one more thing; All karaoke outlets here are full time; karaoke everynite, and the tables actually have numbers.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

As usual, Lonnie....I have to totally agree with you.
If someone is new, they get put in.  Try to keep the rotation as fair as possible, but it is in noway set in stone.  I won't cater too much to the group that comes in 15min before closing time and wanna sing 3 songs...MrD

"I have no cut off point as far as how many singers.
First round is first come first serve, once I hit about 10-15 I will start the round over inserting new singers in between the old.  And it is true that the 8th singer can now be the 16th, but say your 10 start rotation, if you didn't do that & you still had new singers coming in that get to the end of the line, then those orignal 10 are still going to have to wait, but even if the new singers get added to the bottom, the wait is still there, but actually makes some of the old singers wait longer, if you insert the new singers in between the old, then at least the old singers are still getting up instead of waiting for an entire block of new singers.

That's my take, you will definitely get other views on this one!"

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

Major pet peeve for me is a big group that rolls in 15 minutes before closing, picks up a book, starts looking, and then starting barging up one at a time thinking they're going to provide the ending songs...

These 'bargers' spent their money somewhere else, and probably got denied service for their last drinks at the previous place because they were on the verge of being over-served, and decide to crash a karaoke show.

One thing I tell prospective clients is this: If people  have sat patiently all night waiting to sing, spending their money, appreciating other singers, etc., they HAVE PRIORITY. The late bargers will receive my 10-second lecture: Gee, I could have had a lot of time for you if you had made your first stop here tonight...Think about that next time, and I'll save lots of room for you.

Otherwise my rotation is this: Start taking slips, when I reach the end of the slips, that's the first 'rotation.'  As singers start coming in, I start interspersing them - usually between every 2-3rd singer, depending.  I try not to break up groups. I also don't allow the same people to come up and sing 5 times in a row...I recognize the group thing and will tell them I'll have to allow them one song each rotation...

Depending on crowd, I handle duets this way: If they are both singing individually, I will put one of them up, then they call the other up, then the first sits down...so they do get to do 2 songs in a row, but only if the rotation isn't heavy - saves time.

Oh, major other pet peeve - someone who uses different names on their slips - I'm getting pretty good at reading writing now and will ask them, hey, do you have 2 names? Sorry, you'll have to wait just like everyone else.

I don't believe that new singers should wait more than 2-3 singers (unless the rotation is 40 people long..which seldom happens at my shows). I know I appreciate when I go to a new place that I get to start participating sooner than later.

KJ's who play with the rotation, in my book, are death to a good show. Won't go back to that...and most of the singers I know say the same thing.  People always comment on how great I run my rotation and I appreciate their comments and let them know that. So simple to keep people satisfied if you treat everyone the same.

On the other hand, the going over time question is one that should draw some interesting responses...but that's a new thread for sure.

K

Generally I will have an overall cut-off point at some time in the evening - typically about an hour to hour1/2 before show end where I will not be taking anymore slips as I already have enough in line to finish out the night anyway, wouldn't make no point to cintinue taking slips after that.  If I get a late group, they are typically SOL for singing, new or not.  If you have a slip up after I make last call, then you have the opportunity to switch it out, but not add another.



If I get this they get one warning to use one name, if they use something other then all their slips get pulled.

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I went right up until 2:28 AM last night. Just a couple of minutes until all drinks must be pulled. I have a group of singers who sacrifice their bodies for me  during the middle rounds, singing rap and hiphop that's  beneath their abilities in order to keep the dance floor full. I reward them with a final round that goes until it's done so they can sing what they want.

I also work in a very forgiving bar that allows me a bit of freedom.

Bottom side to this is that I'm just waking up and it's almost noon.

I think one of the fairest ways is the line method.  You put your slip in to sing your 1st song you are the 5th person to sing ( Cause you got there early)  as you are waiting to sing your 1st song a few more people sign up and now there are 10 people total waiting to sing.  After you sing your 1st song you hand your KJ your slip for now what is your 2nd song ( bring one sing one)  You are now put at the bottom of  the now flowing "LIST"  Once your finish your 2nd song you can hand in your 3rd song request being again..put at the end of the now current ist.  TO me this is the fairest.    If you are a singer and you get their early by DEFAULT you get to sing MORE ..well     because you are there early.   Oh and the prima donna who wants to come in 30 mins before closing so they can SING ...forgetaboutit !!!!  
unless you are put at the end of the list ....

As Knightshow has mentioned its like a RIDE at the amusement park...  finish the ride and get back in line ....   NO cutting ...... No special treatment.  

Don't like the wait ...  find another ride ...But all the GOOD rides have the longest  LINES  :yes:  :yes:  :yes:

But in using the line methods I know at some of the major amusement parks they have the VIP pass you can purchase which gets you up pretty much next or much sooner than the others that have been waiting in line.  
Also been to banks where they are looking for certain transactions & if you qualify you get pulled out of the line & moved up front.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I like this method fine as long as I know how many are before me when I sign up.