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Flipper
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 Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:13 pm |
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ASCAP may not be very active in your geographical area, but they are for real.
The best way to get a visit from them is to Advertise in the local entertainment newspaper. I'm guessing within 2 weeks one will show up on the venues doorstep
inquiring about the live entertainment. This is why I stopped advertising if the
venue does not paying the fees. Eventually they will come around.
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Scott
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:19 pm |
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This ASCAP is another reason that I did not delude myself into thinking that anyone comes to Karaoke to listen. When those boys did bare their fangs at me I pointed that out and they backed off. If they took me to court and my arguement stuck they could never charge a fee for karaoke again. The song writer is entitled to the next profit the bar made because his work was used. That amount in most cases is nothing. ASCAP is entitled to collect nothing more than the song writer is.
Now if we could all get our egos out of the way and agree that it's not about the music or the mix for anyone but the performer and everyone else is just there to party, there goes ASCAP.
Also, for anyone who cares to look there are a wealth of anti-ASCAP weapons in the second amended final judgement in US V ASCAP 1941 which took effect in 2001. This ruling may or may not have been changed since then but such is the court system.
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sidewinder
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:06 pm |
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ASCAP sells the permission needed to legally play the music for profit, in public.
Without this permission you (the bars) are in violation of the copyright laws.
As written on every karaoke disc. The bar is making a profit from the playing of the music, they must pay for it.
That money collected supposedly is divided up among the owners of the music which is usually the publishing company. I think they inturn disperse the money to the artists. They take an average all around the country from the radio stations. They look at how many times a particular song is played to determine how much money each artist is due.
ASCAP/BMI are here forever. As long as there is money involved.
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Dr Fred
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:34 pm |
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Quote: I did not delude myself into thinking that anyone comes to Karaoke to listen.
Some people do.
I was recently at a party over the weekend and someone remembered me singing a specific song at a bar that closed 4 years ago, I dont think I had seen him since, and didn't really know him at the time. But he was listening to my singing and did remember it.
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karaoke for food.....
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:15 pm |
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These money grubbing losers came to one club i was subbing for. The owner camree up and said shut down the music. Two big bouncers, the boss and i escorted these money hungry crooks out of the club. And in the parking lot they actually threated us with legal action. I asked the dude in the suit, how he liked all his teeth. He said tell it to the judge, i said you tell it to your dentist. The boss told him we had his license plate number and he and the guys would like to come by his place and take him out to dinner some evening...i don't know how the club owner came out, but by what i heard, he has never had trouble with these robbers since. Karyoker....you're right again. It's just plain stupid. I have never payed a dime to these morons, and no club i have ever KJ, played in a band in, or DJ at, has ever paid a dime up round these parts..be a cold day in hell when they do, been in the music business 40 years. 
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Sweet Little Me In Karaokeland........
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kameragurl
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:23 am |
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I have all CDG's. If I paid for all of them, shouldn't I be able to perform them at a karaoke show?
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Jian
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:45 am |
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kameragurl @ 28th January 2008, 9:23 pm wrote: I have all CDG's. If I paid for all of them, shouldn't I be able to perform them at a karaoke show?
No you cannot, read the label at the back. It say for private use only and can only be used in public with authorization. :yes: so you are not legal. 
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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott
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karyoker
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:38 am |
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Well let us know when they are coming we will pen up the dawgs and send a kid down to the gate on a 4 wheeler and let them in. I have bucked the FCC on a legal basis as a CE of a TV station have told OSHA to go to h@el and run the local health inspectors out of a Dennys because they were telling the mngr he had to start checking kids ID'S to see if they were old enuff to smoke.I was screaming and they couldnt even call the cops because they didnt have a legal platform to stand on.,
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Lonman
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:53 am |
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kameragurl @ Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:23 am wrote: I have all CDG's. If I paid for all of them, shouldn't I be able to perform them at a karaoke show?
Not if your club isn't paying their publishing fees. You don't buy the rights to play commercially, you buy the media the music is on, you don't even actually own the music. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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Flipper
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:03 pm |
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kameragurl @ Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:23 am wrote: I have all CDG's. If I paid for all of them, shouldn't I be able to perform them at a karaoke show?
The discs say "Not for Public Performance" yet everytime a KJ uses them in their show they are going against what is printed on the discs. Are they breaking the law? That is for the Courts to decide. Not one person here has the answer to that question and can back it up with hard evidence. Until then you have to do what you think is right and it does not matter what anyone else thinks. One day it will be very clear and then you may or may not have to adjust your methods.
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Scott
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Lonman
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:10 pm |
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Flipper @ Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:03 pm wrote: kameragurl @ Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:23 am wrote: I have all CDG's. If I paid for all of them, shouldn't I be able to perform them at a karaoke show? The discs say "Not for Public Performance" yet everytime a KJ uses them in their show they are going against what is printed on the discs. . "Unauthorized" public performance. It becomes authorized when the publishing fees are paid by the club. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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candisings
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:02 pm |
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Blind Snoopy Rhodes @ Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:59 pm wrote: Actually Bro, this is not a problem for folks in the Karaoke Business at all. If you purchase your music leaglly YOU have nothing to worry about at all! The owner of the venue, the bar or club or nursing home, is the one with troubles. They HAVE to pay ASCAP/BMI to have these tunes playing in their place of business, it is just the way it is.
As a performer you have the right to play whatever you want, the karaoke producers pay a fee to the Harry Fox Agency for using making covers of these tunes we use and they are also legal. If you are playing the piano you still don;t have to pay anyone, it's all free for you, the performer.
If you want to record covers you must pay.
If you have cover music playing in your place of business you must pay.
If you want to share copies of written or transcribed music you must pay.
Playing it still isn't regulated, singing still isn't regulated. listening still isn't regulated.
As far as it goes I think this DOES help folks in the legit Karaoke Business, some of you guys have THOUSANDS of dollars in your libraries! This is a real capitol investment IMHO. It would stink if your competitiors could just grab up all the stuff you have for a $25 download from a guy on Craigslist that says "Bring your own hard drive!"...
BSR
I'm not so sure about that. Because you're making money off of the playing of that music, I'm pretty sure you have to hold public use licenses for all of those songs as well. I could be wrong, but I did a lot of research on what I couldn't and couldn't do with karaoke songs a while back...and I'm pretty sure I found something saying that hosts have to have those licenses too.
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Lonman
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:19 pm |
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candisings @ Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:02 pm wrote: Blind Snoopy Rhodes @ Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:59 pm wrote: Actually Bro, this is not a problem for folks in the Karaoke Business at all. If you purchase your music leaglly YOU have nothing to worry about at all! The owner of the venue, the bar or club or nursing home, is the one with troubles. They HAVE to pay ASCAP/BMI to have these tunes playing in their place of business, it is just the way it is.
As a performer you have the right to play whatever you want, the karaoke producers pay a fee to the Harry Fox Agency for using making covers of these tunes we use and they are also legal. If you are playing the piano you still don;t have to pay anyone, it's all free for you, the performer.
If you want to record covers you must pay.
If you have cover music playing in your place of business you must pay.
If you want to share copies of written or transcribed music you must pay.
Playing it still isn't regulated, singing still isn't regulated. listening still isn't regulated.
As far as it goes I think this DOES help folks in the legit Karaoke Business, some of you guys have THOUSANDS of dollars in your libraries! This is a real capitol investment IMHO. It would stink if your competitiors could just grab up all the stuff you have for a $25 download from a guy on Craigslist that says "Bring your own hard drive!"...
BSR I'm not so sure about that. Because you're making money off of the playing of that music, I'm pretty sure you have to hold public use licenses for all of those songs as well. I could be wrong, but I did a lot of research on what I couldn't and couldn't do with karaoke songs a while back...and I'm pretty sure I found something saying that hosts have to have those licenses too. If you play in a club/bar/private club setting the only one responsible is the club to pay the publisher fees. The karaoke companies/kj's are not responsible for these fees in any way. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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sidewinder
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:09 am |
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kameragurl @ Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:23 am wrote: I have all CDG's. If I paid for all of them, shouldn't I be able to perform them at a karaoke show?
That's exactly right. :yes: Now you get it. 
You have a bunch of CDs and no permission to play them out in public for money. 
So techinically it doesn't matter if it's on a hard drive or disc, you have no permission either way.
It's still illegal without the ASCAP/BMI sticker.
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Murray C
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:14 am |
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Quote: "Unauthorized" public performance. It becomes authorized when the publishing fees are paid by the club.
Lonman is quite correct! Ever noticed the same copyright lable on ordinary music CDs re unauthorised public performance. If a business wishes to use copyrighted music in their business, they must obtain permission to do so from the copyright holders. They can only play the music they have been granted permission to use. That's whether it be karaoke, CD music or whatever.
Nobody has to pay ASCAP or BMI anything to get this permission. If they wanted to spend the time and resources to find out exactly who owns the copyright on every piece of music they wish to play in their establishment, then they can request permission directly from the copyright holders. I'm guessing paying ASCAP/BMI one fee for a "blanket" licence is gonna be a lot more convenient for most businesses. But not all music is covered by ASCAP/BMI, only the music owned by the copyright holders that have signed ASCAP/BMI as their agent.
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karyoker
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:10 pm |
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The mechanical license and original publishers fee is paid by SC or other cdg manus It is not illegal to use these and perform in public. However due to law a performance fee is required . ASCAP or nobody else has the authority to enforce copyright laws. They can only sue for the fees that they require from a venue for public performance rights. The recent Bull & Bears RIAA lawsuit established that in a court of law (civil court) An actual copyright bust would require thousands of dollars and months of investigations by the FBI. the resulting trial would be in a district court (federal) It would consider copyright and profitable distribution. If you believe different than this then you live in a fantasy..
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sidewinder
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:42 pm |
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The bar was served papers for non compliance, from the many times they were notified before. And chose to ignore them. So from the first observation of the infraction they were "guilty" and got the first letter stating so. It didn't take months of anything, just months of ingorance on the bar owners part. He should have complied and it would all be over. He decided to played hard ball, now he's in the ringer.
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karyoker
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:59 pm |
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Son if you would like to share your personal address and phone number so our attorneys can share correspondence then we will continue this discussion. In the meantime DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT TRY TO GIVE ME OR ANYBODY ELSE LEGAL ADVISE ON A PUBLIC FORUM. It is highly frowned upon by the Attorneys Bar.
I am tired of this crap and currently consulting my attorney about accusations concerning my business or anybody elses karaoke business on a public forum . You better get your ducks in a row and make sure you are totally legal. I can get your isp in a second so dont think I cant find you.
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exweedfarmer
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:08 pm |
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OH NO!!!! MORE BROKEN FINGERS!!!
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karyoker
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:21 pm |
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Quote: OH NO!!!! MORE BROKEN FINGERS!!!
 LMAO LOL LOL
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