Karaoke Forums

Another BD trait!  Starting to show your true colors!  Still have yet to show a location as you never did before either!!!!!!

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

Man, if I was to NOT play or NOT allow songs I don't like to be played or sung.......it would be like helping to dig my own grave.  I can ONLY see that point of view, if you are doing your own show, at your own party, at your own house, which would be totally by yourself too, because noone would stay there either!  I like virtually all types of music, but there is a certain few songs that I don't care if I ever hear again.  Every time I'm in a new place or we have new people....they get requested & they get played & sung.....MrD

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

Nah, can't be your talent level is better. I've done a lot more than just kj with music but i won't brag about it. Maybe i'll PM you. I am semi-retired though due to music.

Send them hip hoppers over and i'll take their money as well if you don't want them.
Picky people usually end up poor in this profession. Ya really gotta appeal and cater to every demographic no mater how frequent/infrequent they are. Everyone sholud get an equal opportunity to have a good time, imo.

Young ones aren't a problem for my older ones- they actually bounce to the music and sometimes dance, but do cringe at the sometimes bad lyrics...but we're all adults here and can handle it.

The problem i see with your situation is that YOU are determining how much money your venue makes for the night, if you turn away certain customers. Your preference to music genre may be hurting the bar's profit margin- maybe i'm wrong.

I don't really mind the rappers... but they'll do it on their OWN discs!!

I buy what I want to buy and build my shows around that. 'Nuff said!

My thoughts on all "preference", is that it doesn't matter what I do or do not like.  It's really about what the crowd wants. Stuff changes in the Arts in spite of, or despite of my aesthetic preferences.  Music form evolves (although true, some of we older folk in certain areas don't consider Rap "music" others say it's a strong rythmic form, some being "free rap" other types more "poetic", and others said "funk" wasn't music either back in the 70's when it began, of course others said sequencers, and Donna Summers type disco wasn't music either-- it's true, and of course, mellotrons and synths were "cheating"),  I hated punk too and wouldn't have anything to do with that ugly form around the time classic rock british invasion period ended, but it didn't matter what I minded or considered "less than music".

My time supplying music I liked ended.  As it does for all assuming the crowd wants a different style.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I remember reading an article "On No !  I've become my parents"

In the 60's we had Iron Butterfly, Some of Sabbath's stuff, and what even a few of we kids considered "noise"; Weird stuff existed, came on the scene, I STILL can't stand "Canned Heat"... Some kids loved it.. even as a teen I never like Iron Butterfly.  Even some of Black Sabbath I still don't find too "tasteful, or what I'd consider more than a message... Much of the Viet-Nam era stuff was "messages",  just sending messages to the listener during a rebellious period.. Not that harmonious IMHO...   Nasty stuff both in composition, and musical flow) to some has always existed within all artforms..  I couldn't stand Hendrix when he first came out... Purple haze.. and what he did with the Star Spangled Banner using screeching feedback.. THAT was "pretty music" ?????   I think not.  Hendrix wasn't a respected guitarist when he first entered the scene,  nobody had a clue what this guy was trying to do, but during a more-or-less anything goes period,  after his death, he became a "guitar hero".  Why ?  I don't know..


sort've like the comedy... "We heard it,  we survived it, and we liked it"..  Music, prose, styles, it's totally irrational to some why others prefer certain stuff, but this area is so very subjective and linked with times, ages of listener there's nostalgia, sentimental memory associated for some kid out there each time he hears  "Don't worry mawmaw, I dint mean to hurt you yo... but tonight, I be cleaning out my clawzit"  AND,  some kids like anything the "coolest" kids in their 5th grade class say is excellent just because it's cool to like it..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hello all (my first post)...

I really think it's  a matter of the type and style of room when it comes to allowing potentially offensive material. Although I'm fairly new at this, I've noticed that Karaoke as it matures is getting more  like live music and splintering into  different musical styles in separate bars.

I call myself an "accidental" KJ as I kind of fell into this as a favor to an old friend in the bar business a couple of years ago. I'm a musician and was going to originally play live music in there, but that didn't work out! But I was carrying around a little starter karaoke set at the time, and that's what took off. Now I'm swamped and need some help technically and will probably ask questions after I search thoroughly so as not to bug you all too much...

But anyway this room is mostly under 35. Crazy B###h, You Oughta Know, Anemia, Ballad Of Chasey Lain, Closer, and yes, F##k Her Gently... these and many more like them are the staples of the room. This generation drops the "F" word so incessantly that it's lost it's meaning. But it really doesn't bother me because only a few  take the name of God or Jesus in vain. That's the cussing of my generation, and I find that much more offensive.

They also treat me with much more respect as their KJ than their parents. They may wear chains and have their hair spiked, but they're sweethearts to their KJ !

This little stand alone bar that seats maybe 100 is packed on the two nights that I do this... Thurs and Sat. They are very reliable... snowstorm... no problem! And although the singers themselves generally watch how much they drink... they have a show to put on after all... their friends and hangers-on don't! This is a very healthy bar. I wish my Friday jobs were half as good.

If anyone gets offended (and this does happen) I apologize but tell them that's the vibe of the room, and give them directions to the two karaoke bars in town that do country and oldies. I can't appeal to both groups. I have to choose. Actually the room has chosen for me. This wasn't originally my idea. But I love it!

Welcome to KS Bill.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Look at some of Zappa's stuff, and even for a time like the mid 60's the Beatles "Why don't we do it in the road". Suggestive music and innuendo existed.. Grand Funks TNUC for instance, on and on..  There was plenty of music that had expletives all along too.  What's cool when you're 13 just often isn't at 53.. Similarly, what I liked 10 years ago, I might be sick of now even if it's fabulous in composition, heck, Stairway to Heaven was a GORGEOUS song when it first came out,  which is why so many soon after started loathing hearing it hour after hour after hour, day after day for YEARS...  To the point those that liked it, well, some HATED it and wanted the "Dirty song" assuming they were HS aged especially when drinking age was 18.. "Dirty words" reWld in certain circles, of course there are pretty ballads that have lyrics such as "I'm an A$$hole". (For some reason that song has profound meaning to me)

There's a certain amount of irony I suppose to the suggestion "expletives don't belong in a bar"  (of all places ),  however even bars have changed over years.. Back in the 60's and 70's MANY singles bars were about wanton behaviour, and Sex, Drugs, and R&R... Anything went... Older bars that were lounges were classier and younger folks just wouldn't want to go...


Now there are mixes, but still there's a time and a place, so it depends, age, location, type venue... right ?  Host should be able to feel out the crowd type

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

There are gently suggestive songs and there are blatantly suggestive songs, that spare no detail or expletive to describe them.   The older songs that you mention were expertly crafted in a poetic way to suggest it, not slap you in the face with it.   That's the difference people complain about.   Today they just tell you "F" Her Gently.    Well most people over 30 aren't quite ready for that colorful, non expertly crafted gutter description, yet.    Herein lies the problem.

I recently KJd at a fund raiser for a local Comedy Troupe/Burlesque Show. Of course much of their act is to the say the least "dirty". After their show that had many sugestive skits, we had a few hours of karaoke.

When one of the show members got up to sing her song in karaoke, I mentioned that we could not do that because it said "explicit lyrics". After warning the children to leave the room I allowed her to sing the explicit song. At least a few of the crowd realized I was just jokeing about trying to prevent singing a dirty song (in that situation).

As for dirty songs, it is all a matter of context. If you get complaints from more than a tiny portion of your audience then they should be limited. But in some situations the dirty song is not only ok but expected.

I never heard this song.  I guess there are some advantages of living the sheltered life of an old fart who doesn't go to bars packed with kids.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I think if you're in an adult venue (other than say...a church), people should be able to sing what they want.  The only exceptions in my book is if the venue owner/mgr doesn't like or your crowd is full of that kind of uptight, prudish attitude.  You could think of a creative way to introduce some of the racier songs as the singer is coming up to the mic...something fun to get the crowd going and kinda make it a trademark for your show.  And really, if you're in a bar...you're going to hear far worse in people's conversations.

A private bar converstation isn't broadcast over the PA system for all that may or may not want to hear it.  Like a singer adding unwanted color.

Not every bar is in the bad part of town.  Many upscale bars don't cater to the cliental that want to "F" bomb everyone.     I would rather frequent a bar that has respectable people doing respecatble things, than one where nobody ever knows what's coming next.

It's called gutter language & gutter behavior for a reason.   I don't want to hear it or see it in a bar or anywhere else.    You would expect it in the lowest of dive bars and back alleys.   Not in places i want to take people i really care about or have to worry about them seeing or being subjected to it.   It's no different that being forced to sit by some yahoo that wants to blow stinky cigar smoke all around the room.   Do you like that?  One cigar smoker can ruin the entire atmosphere for any bar.   It's the same for some jerk singer that wants to ruin the atmosphere with his "F" bombs.   It's the same thing if you don't find it enjoyable or acceptable.  

Now say you don't have to stay there.   Maybe you don't have to stay there either.   If my plans are to spend an enjoyable evening at my favorite bar doing karaoke, thats my plans.  Why should i be forced to change my plans because someone else thinks it should be their way?   I expect adult behavior when in the company of adults.    Alcohol should not factor in to it.  Act respectable when drinking or don't drink in public.   Don't subject innocent people to indulge your inappropriate behavior for your  "fun."

What if my idea of fun was to punch everyone in the head?  Would you say well he's been drinking and after all i am in a bar.   Maybe i like grabbing womens butts.  Oh well he's been drinking and i'm in a bar.   That doesn't wash with me.   Maybe the old, we're in a bar thing works for you.  I think normal adults think differently.  Alcohol isn't an excuse for anything.    Stop making it so.

This question has been debated on forums (not just this one), for at least, the last two years!

It seems to me that those who contribute to offending others have justified in their minds their right to do so:  They maintain either: that the lyrics are not offensive or that people don't have the right to be offended.  Clearly, nothing said by those who have an opinion will change the minds of those with a contrary viewpoint!

   Here are the two sides of this argument, distilled down to their essences:

   PRO ("any lyrics are fine") - It's a bar; the patrons are adults; I'm an "adult" and I don't mind; what's your problem?  If you have a problem, clearly you shouldn't.  But if for some incomprehensible reason you do, you can:
     a) act like an adult
     b) suck it up"
     c) leave, or....

   CON ("any lyrics are NOT fine) - Not all shows are at bars; not all bars are frequented soley by sailors; just because an adult goes out to enjoy karaoke doesn't mean that said adult has given their permission to be subjected to behavior and or lyrics that they don't EXPECT in a public place and that they don't wish to experience.

To me here is the reality which is not focused on by those who ARE offended by "bad lyrics":  Those who are not offended deem that any adult who is offended is (@$%&#!) OUT OF OF LUCK because, as an adult, he or she HAS NO RIGHT TO BE OFFENDED!  (NOTE: THE PRECEDING CENSORSHIP) So, to the person who is not offended, it is inconsequential if someone is offended because the offended party is the party that did something wrong (ie went to sing karaoke in a BAR), or is closed-minded, or super-sensitive, or...

Like pornography, I know vulgarity when I hear it.  I can accept the F-word in the dialogue of a motion picture when it's true to life, not gratuitous.  Furthermore, as part of a movie audience, I am only an observer of the story being told.

Singing, IMHO, is something most of us take much more personally than sitting in a movie; the singer is singing to us/for us (not AT US).  We often recall events with the songs of the time.  We have love songs to express our feelings.  Couples have THEIR SONG.  (Hey, Honey, here's our song... I wanna F... you!
CAN YOU IMAGINE?)

NOTE: While our parents may not have liked our music; and our music may have poetic phrases for sexual acts, our music was NOT EXPLICIT, degrading, vulgar or "in your face"!!!

That's your opinion.  Some thought that Elvis and the doors (due to certain movement and lyrical content) was "In your face" during days of "our music".   A lot was censored half a decade ago as well !
"In your face" according to WHO'S conditioning ?

Again, this becomes subjective.


Seems people have a tough time thinking somewhat objectively about these matters.  "Why Don't we get drunk and screw" ?   Ever hear of a person named "John Valby" ?  Half a century ago "Wham Bam Thank You Mam" was banned due to it's "crass" nature for the times, Yep, even Dean Martin was considered crass.

What this depends on is "The Listener" meaning their age, location, it's all context, mood, etc..  Those of us discussing this for the most part aren't rebelious High School or young college aged kids...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steve:

Time is a vehicle for "truth".  I never found in the 50's and 60's, that the things you just described were vulgar.  And while Ed Sullivan banned part of Elvis' performance, such a posture was limited and short-lived!   Most of my parent's generation don't look back today in shock as to what happened to popular music during the 1950's and 60's.  Maybe there were some things that were "in your face" back then; and there are always subcultures that embrace the rebellious side, and some of what you mentioned wasn't part of the "mainstream culture".    

More than 50 years have gone by since "rock" was born.  And music continues to evolve and change .  And when I play the oldies at Karaoke shows I don't find too much that offends me.  Yeh, I don't appreciate Strokin', for example.  But I won't rely on the "vulgarities" of yesterday to justify what is becoming mainstream amongst the kids today.  And, you're right, "Why Don't We Get Drunk And Screw" could be a problem for many.

So, since it is not highschoolers among us that are justifying the use of vulgarities the use of vulgarities is justified?

Let's go the other way.  What is it that is UNACCEPTABLE to play, or to say, or do at a karaoke show at a public venue?  I understand that there are things we as KJ's cannot control.  We can't stop a slut from giving some guy a lapdance.  But would you announce it?

No,  Truth you speak of is SUBJECTIVE !   Time is a vehicle for CHANGE and trend, however even during the SAME time, there is urban culture, and different location preference and what becomes deemed acceptable in accordance with age, and location. You must not be familiar with a lot of "funk" during the early 70's. It was quite suggestive, as was DANCE style,  Late 60's was a time of "free love" too, and the nudity at woodstock wasn't vulgar to many ?  How about the Woodstocks all along ?   I'm assuming you were somewhat younger in the 50's and 60's.  You are a product of YOUR culture and times only !  Of course YOU didn't consider something vulgar that your grandparents might have ~   Or nuns at the convent would, etc..  Time and place, etc.. Age, so on

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steve:

When was the last time you heard the expression "Wham, bam, thank you m'am" used by a political figure (xcept Bill Clinton), a newsman, a clergyman, an educator?

It has it's time and place; usually as part of a joke!

But as I said in my first post, it obviously doesn't matter if I'm offended.  And from your point of view, I'll figure out in the future that I shouldn't have been offended in the past.  So, the PRESENT doesn't matter!  Thank you!

That gibberish makes as much sense as your "Time is Truth" statement.  If truth is always "changing", as are people, times, acceptance, and tolerance levels, such :truth: can't be used as a common denominator, so to even make such a statement is moot.   The "present" matters to THOSE that are in it. During any given "present" time there exist MANY who perceive things VERY differently during the same time period depending on their age, and conditioning.   Fact is, Dean Martins "Wham Bam Thank You Mam" IN 1951 was considered crass and vulgar to many, but since it isn't considered crass to YOU today, according to your logic there was no such thing as "truth" in 1951.  LMAO

It's not a matter of "shoulds and should nots",  it's a matter of individual perception ! I am not judging this as right or wrong, you are !

I consider much of what I was doing, and playing at excruciatingly loud volumes in 1972 vulgar and crass..  MY perception changes too with age !  Not right or wrong, just happens !  I grew up in a free love,  "MUsical bed" generation..  Sex, drugs and rock and roll, it was a VERY liberal "In your face" time !  I was also a musician on the road during that time..  I saw the perspectives from MANY different ages and locations.

You're having a tough time understanding certain things, because you haven't been exposed to them..  To some "**** her gently" is crass to hear,  to me today it likely is...  I was PLAYING GIGS where people were ****ing openly, and orgies were common !  THAT ISN'T EXPLICIT ???  It didn't matter whether others in the room wished to see it or not.

It ALL depends on times, locations, ages, and ALL must be considered in the context the events are transpiring within

Last night Pizza was the greatest thing.. This morning the thought of it is nauseating !   Perceptions change in even the same individual..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".