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Maybe I woke up this morning in a bad mood.  I don't know.  I just dropped $2500 on a new set of powered JBLs for my show.  I do Wed and Fri.  I have built up a solid base of singers and no one in town even tries to compete with my shows.  

Last night I was in hoping to do a sound check on my new gear, but a pool league preempted that.  That's okay.  My nights are Wed and Fri.  I stuck around for a couple of beers showing off my new speakers to a few of the regulars, when someone approached me and asked ... "So what're you going to do now that there's a dart league on Wednesday?"  I said, 'Um, gee I don't know."  

My venue is the place to be in my small town on Wednesdays.  All the other bars empty out and come to my show, literally.

I like structure.  I crave consistency.  I have built up my base by running a consistent and fair show.  It's fun.  The owner loves me.  My crowd loves me.  This place has one dart board.  Dart leagues would push my start time 1 to 1½ hours out on Wednesdays.  I set up right in front of the board, so there's no sharing.  No one told me about it beforehand, no one wants to.  I'm feeling a little peeved.  It's the only place I play.  It's comfortable.  

1)  I only do one week night a week (I have a day job).
2)  I won't switch nights because my crowds expects me there from 9-1 on Wed nights.  
3)  I'm stubborn.
4)  There are other places in town that would love to have me.
5)  The owner doesn't get what inconsistency does to a show.
6)  I'm not a house boy.  I have my own gear and I'm contracted.
7)  The owner told me 3 weeks ago she can't survive without her karaoke.
 I won't cart my stuff around to different gigs during the week.
9)  If I get a gig elsewhere because this ONE dart team starts interfering with my Wednesday gig ... I'm gone.

Do you think I'm overreacting?  Are owners so shortsighted that they'd sacrifice their bread and butter to accomodate ONE dart team?  I want to talk with the owner, but as soon as I bring it up she'll get defensive, because that's her personality.  

Are you folks just as stubborn?  Do I need to lighten up?  Should I sacrifice what I know and venture out?  Am I just in a bad mood?

1st things first--- As I don't understand -- Was all this confirmed by the management ?   You're show is now pushed back on Wed --does that mean LESS PAY ?  Same PAY less hours ? .    WHICHEVER you best bet is to sit down and calmly talk to the owner --- You might be able to work something out

The same thing happened with me only it was poker. The mngr and I had a long relationship. There was no discussion or prior notice. In a few weeks I was gone and she was furious because I didnt notify her I just didnt show up. It is a grudge that only festers with each night of fighting the other crowd.

One board will only bring in maybe 12 people and typically a few of them dont drink.  Karaoke and darts are a good combo when there is room and they dont clash with each other. Other than moving the board I see no solution.

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That's the thing.  Our Wed crowd is the crowd - no one else does business on Wed but my place and we do damn good business.  People want this show.  I don't think the owner realizes the damage this could do, but we've had a similar discussion about pool leagues and I've worked around it.  Dart leagues take a little longer than the nine ball leagues and that's what's got my goat this morning.

The bar isn't big enough to support both on one night because of where the dart board is.  If I start at 10 or 10:30 ... I WILL NOT BE REDUCED IN PAY.  The owner will have to use the little money she gets from her dart board (6-8 people) to pay me my Wed night fee - she profits nothing from it and will lose fed up regulars (They even give a half time drink on the house to each dart player) ... Things will pick up after I'm up and running, no doubt, she'll still profit from the night - but what does it do to my regular crowd.  My concern is the damage to my show.  The singers that come in expect the show to start at 9:00.  Many come in early because between 9-10 they can get a few more songs in.  During the 10-11 hour, the crowd explodes.  This is when I envision getting set up and on a roll now because it'll take that long for the league to finish, for the players to bullshxt about their stats for the night, and blah, blah, blah ... I don't like the hassles associated with kicking pool and dart players aside so I can set up for my show.  This should be done for me in advance.  That's just my feeling.  I mean too much for the bars bottom line.  

karyoker has it right.  Pool players bxtch because my lights bounce of their tables.  Dart players complain because they can't play when I'm gigging.  There's ONE board.  Leagues are very anal about their space and their time.  It's entitlement.  I get paid to do a Wed and Fri gig.  I feel entitled because I have a stellar reputation.  I'm not a friggin' house boy to be pushed aside because one team (and they suck, I know because I used to shoot this flight and I pound everyone one of them when I play them just for fun - I was rated 3rd in the league when I quit).  I put my heart and soul into my shows and it turns a nice profit for the owner.  Her shortsightedness might be her downfall.  She said and I quote - I couldn't survive without the karaoke.  I'm not trying to sound like I can't be replaced, but there aren't any other KJs in town that will appeal to this crowd like I do.  All the others are house KJs and run crap on crap.  I'm like a rock star for dummies.  I'm the leader in this town.

I've sent her an e-mail this morning asking how I'm supposed to respond to people asking me what I'm going to do now that there's a dart team playing on Wednesdays, I'm waiting her response.  I'm very selfish about my gigs, because I take a lot of pride in what I do, and I won't have idiots eroding my efforts.  

If she doesn't cank the team, I may cank the gig.  I've been there two years and have been faithful, loyal, consistent, and honest - and for the first year ... cheap.  I don't like dart (or pool) players (most of the players are singers too) getting flipid with me because they think they've done something spectacular like trumping my show.  It's senseless for all and it may prove disatrous for the bar.  I wonder how the team would be perceived if because of their team, karaoke at the bar ceased.  I'd do it too ...

Bar owners are that stupid, aren't they?

One last piece of advise That pool fiasco totally burned me out and I fully retired. for about 6 months. If this issue can not be solved dont stay there and get a negative attitude. Go get another gig for both nights.

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I know what you're saying karyoker.  I'm waiting to hear from the owner, and I will ask her to ask the team to relocate to another bar.  I've already put out a couple of feelers for a new gig.  I don't want to, but I don't want to hassles even more that moving locations.  The players get an almost mocking attitude about it, like HA HA ... I can't stand it.  I know I'll have people follow me to a new place, and I'll build up a show as strong as this one.  I may be overreacting, but I won't risk being perceived as a house KJ.  My nights are my nights.  That's a requirement for any venue I work.  If pool and darts can coexist, no problem.  If they can't ... no pool and no darts.  

I'll let you guys know how it plays out.  My first test is tomorrow night.

Interesting that pool leagues and dart leagues hold some sort of special appeal for owners - until they are told in no uncertain terms that, at least in this area, dart players don't eat, don't drink very much, and seem to have an attitude that is hard to deal with.

Seems like this owner doesn't understand the FULL financial consequences of what she is done. She will, sadly, and I have a feeling that your faithfuls will continue to sing with you, Croakdog ... have THEM put pressure on her about it. They can't move the dart board on Wednesday nights maybe? As I recall, you have pretty major space limitations in that place.

Best of luck dealing with this. I TOTALLY understand how you're feeling - we are similar in our approaches to the biz and I'd be just as angry and frustrated as you are about this. I'm anxious to hear how it gets resolved.

K

Years and years ago I was the tech at High Country Games in Fort Collins. We were the pioneers in establishing plastic dart leagues in the state and ran the annual dart leagues in Vegas. I personally was in leagues for 15 years. In those days players were very polite and there were unwritten rules about dart etiquette. Then gradually it turned into all the kids wanting to argue about the rules and turned into a dog eat dog no fun BS. And you are right they now have an attitude.

For dart leagues to show profit in any bar you need 4-6 teams and 4 dart boards in their own area or room. You also need a blind draw tournament like on sun aft.

I am not highjacking the thread but giving some insight into dart leagues and co-existence with karaoke. I have hosted in clubs with 10 pool tables and maybe a dozen dart boards but they were in different areas or rooms. A small venue can have only one function a night. In the end neither function is successful.

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Our Monday night gig used to involve the pool leagues - the place has 3 regulation size pool tables. These guys used to squawk (one guy in particular) about the 'noise' from karaoke - always wanted the music turned way down (long room, speakers facing the end where the tables were). It took a few months but eventually the bartender had enough proof about the money that was actually spent by the pool league as opposed to that spent by karaoke participants...and since this owner apparently likes what karaoke does for his place (he supports it 3 nights a week with 3 different hosting companies), when it came time, pool league was politely asked to move their games somewhere else. Tables are still busy on Monday nights but with regular patrons who drink more and often eat.

On the other hand, dart league happens while we're there on Monday nights. They are much more tolerant and usually finish up about 30 minutes after karaoke starts.

Having visited Croakdog's establishment, I see that space constraints definitely play a role, and having to move equipment to allow them to throw darts would be so inconvenient. From my pov, and I take this sort of action on an owner's part pretty personally (major flaw!), it seems that someone has smooth-talked the owner into this.  If she is like most owners, however, the bottom line will ultimately be the decision maker. Obviously the singers C/D brings in spend more money...and the place doesn't look like she spends much on reinvesting to improve it!

K

With all the bars in town, that my place can lay claim to two nights is saying something.  The others bars truly do empty out on Wed and file into my joint.  If karaoke goes, her bar becomes a has been.  I've had another of the local KJs fill in for me ONCE, and I was asked that I never take another night off.  It was horrible.  I'm not blowing smoke up my own xss, but people come to see me and my show.  They like that I don't take BS, that I treat people fair, that my rotation zings, and that I play music before and after.  I make sure everyone gets something from my shows.

All I can do is appeal to the owner.  All I will do is appeal once.  I'll see how it goes tomorrow, but if I can see it being more headache then it's worth, I'm not going to beat my head against a wall to get the owner to see the damage.  I'll leave.  I like calling this place 'mine'.  The owner is proud that the show is the best in town.  I just don't get that she doesn't get it.  Maybe she will when I get a chance to lay it on the line, but history tells me otherwise.

Karen here is our pool leagues in full swing. She doesnt gripe much as long as she has a pacifyer in her mouth. This pic to me is priceless!!!

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Our club is pretty heavy into darts, 10 boards in 1/2 half the room, karaoke on the other.  They are a huge income for the bar as far as food & drink plus percentage of board coin intake, As a matter of fact the darts at our place got so popular, they had to swap the karaoke & dart sides around in 2000 to gain more space for the darts & add more boards.
I can't see how 1 board will compare with the karaoke crowd he says comes in income wise.   Seems like a losing bet there.

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Exactly Lonnie,

1 board (6-8) people.  

You're in the land of Medalist, arguably the largest concentration of soft tip dart players in the world (Olympia to Everett).  I'm in the Skagit Valley, Medalist skips us here before continuing on in Bellingham.  It's senseless ...

After reading everything I guess I'm missing something here....You have a very successful show on Wed & Friday's and the owner has stated that they can't make it without karaoke. Yet of all nights to have a Dart League they schedule it in on a karaoke night which directly interferes with the start of the karaoke show.

No matter how you look at this it makes no sense!    What about Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays, or Sundays for the Dart League? Certainly they could do some other evening...right?

If the owner wants to kill the karaoke on Wednesdays, this is a great starting point!
I know if I was a customer and the advertised time for karaoke was say 9pm and I came in and I had to wait for a dart league to finish before the KJ could setup I would leave and find another place...unless there is no other place. But I would probably not come in on Wednesdays until later or not at all and opt for Friday night.

If it were me I would have a sit down with the owner and discuss it. I would tell them if they want to kill the karaoke on Wednesdays then they are on the right track. If not then Darts either has to end 1/2 hour before your show so you can setup, or they need to be moved to another night so it will not conflict.  If they are not willing to compromise then perhaps another bar for karaoke on Wednesdays would be the best choice. That way they can get a good comparison of Karaoke -vs- Dart League sales and profits.

I don't think you are overreacting here...you have a right to be unhappy

Karaoke Sabotage is the perfect way to describe what is happening here.

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The owner should be able to move the board --It's 1 board !!!!  -
Why not try to have her cake and eat it too ?? Darts plus Karaoke ????

jam ... space.  There just isn't space.  They have two pool tables in the center of the establishment and all seating is on the perimeter.  The dart board and karaoke share a very limited space for operation.

The dart league is sanctioned by the local dart association.  Many players like myself can only shoot on specific nights.  The Wed night team is a men's A flight.  

Senselessness is the only way I know to justify it right now.  I'm calling the owner on my lunch break.

Typical coin intake on 10 boards on a league night in including warmup and post play usually runs from $250 to $350. (with all boards in use) I dont know the structure of the leagues there but usually half the teams are in other venues every other week.

I have known many that were in a bar for darts only and drifted over to the karaoke side and got hooked. It does make for a good combo.

EDIT I used to install jukeboxes and sound for $100 a pop. Did you ever get paid in quarters? I have many times.

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1 board at 19 games at $.50 a side is $20.  With warmup they may get another five dollars.  Now factor in the unspoken rule that at half time every player gets a drink on the house.  Let's say 8 players - average drink price (shots, beer, mixed) is what, maybe $3.50.  8 x $3.50 = $28.  That just washed itself.  If I remember correctly, board operators get 60% of the coin drops.  Oops, did I just make a point.

This place doesn't serve much food either and what they do is made in a microwave.  Most people order from Dominos and walk across the street to get it, the owner lets people bring in food!!!  Even the bartenders order from the other establishments around town.  Oh, and on pool league nights, they don't make the players pay for the games.

Yeah, karaoke is important to an owner like this.

Stop complaining.  The bar owner is an idiot.  Take your show and the crowd to the nearest bar to them.   Any smart bar owner would love the ready made crowd.   Don't waste your time trying to argue with the bar owner.   Let her cut her own throat.  Move on and do it quickly before the entire crowd disappears.   Take them with you fast or risk losing your income.

Same thing happened to us last month Poker the culprit, our Friday show is pushed up an hour to start at 10 instead of 9. The only prob I have with it is that we used to run our show from 9-12 then if it was busy wed go for 1 & get paid the extra hour, so this takes away the possibility of the extra hour but its ok b/c we rarely went an extra hour on Fridays it was mostlt on Tuesday shows we would do the extra hour. Either way what can we do ? Im just glad we still have a friday gig there instead of them doing poker all night Friday nights. Calm down & see if you both can work together to work something out Good Luck !

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[shadow=black][scroll]You have to respect your audience. Without them, you're essentially standing alone, singing to yourself....KD Lang[/scroll][/shadow]