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Playing Devils Advocate and a little tongue in Cheek....

When you say "BRIBE" it's very negative..... and sounds almost "unethical".

What makes me smile are "singers"  who will leave a $10 tip every week for the bartender, spend $5 a week playing video games at the bar, put $5 in the jukebox to play their favorite songs PLUS EXTRA if they want their selection to play NEXT , have no problem paying $1 per each game of pool  but expect the KJ to work to serve them and only them for no additional compensation at all.   Don't skip them... my God - They act like they have a LEGAL right to follow the same singer in the rotation all night long.... and then they will TELL you if you SKIPPED them... GIVE ME A BREAK ALREADY!

If you are a WEEKLY REGULAR at a Karaoke Show and I'm assuming you LIKE your KJ ..... Give him/her a break and allow them the opportunity to make an extra $20- $50 a night on those "BUMP UPS" in the rotation.  WHat does that mean to you ????  You might have to wait an additional 5-10 mins to sing your song??????  Stop acting like they committed a felony if they accept money to allow someone to sing NEXT.. Heck if you want to sing next throw them a $10  

Over the years a KJ's pay has been reduced by not only the NIGHTLY  scale but the every increasing cost of living.  The expenses of maintaining an up to date library and pro quality equipment is on going  and increasing ...it's about time the singers realize this and show some appreciation to  their KJ's --the same consideration they show BARTENDERS AND WAITRESSES and luggage handlers at the airport...........................BRIBE  NO .............TIP SURE..........VIP payment to sing sooner ....sure  lol

Just saying what many KJ's are thinking ......................................
 :ppfftt:

I know what you are saying Jam. I supplement social security with karaoke. . We have never had a tip jar unless we were doing a benefit (Labor day jerry's kids for ex ). If I asked my regs would fill a jar but I dont ask.

The offer to help haul in, compliments by strangers, smiles on peoples faces, people  with their arms in the air getting with it, and the excitement and happy energy we create is the reason I do it. When the crowd is giving you more energy back than you are expending then the satisfaction is almost magic and addictive.  

I asked one of the gals how their tips are on a crazy night GOOD!! I am really more concerned with their tips and they know it.

Here is my question....When we order food or drinks for customers on our tab should we tip? I never have but think I might start..

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Well, then, we're not really discussing bribes here; we're discussing how "sancrosanct" is the rotation.  I had addressed this subject when I first became a member and had, primarilly, the perspective of a singer to share with you.

I stated back then that, as a singer, I don't tolerate the be messed with. I have ZERO tolerance for favortism, or anything that resembles it regarding a rotation!

Now, what do I mean to your "pocket book", even if I don't tip you?

There are plenty of financially marginal karaoke shows in my neighborhood.  If I and those that come with me, drop $100 a night, and we decide to go elsewhere (and there are plenty of "elsewheres") you might end up with no job.

You're buying your singers DRINKS and FOOD ????

If you're running a charity show and buying drinks and food UNLESS IT IS RECIPROCATED... that's another story ...but whatever you should TIP any bar staff or server for whatever you buy.   I get my drinks for free on show night and always give a tip.....

Eric

You sound just like the singers I'm talking a bout - You think you and your group of singers are a gods gift to a karaoke show... That if you take your business elsewhere the show will be no more.    You really don't CARE about the KJ to you they are there JUST to serve you and your group.   You tolerate ZERO  favoritism but have you ever TIPPED your KJ ?????? /  The pont I'm making is not for a KJ to go out of his way and f with the rotation but why not allow them to make an extra $20/$50 if someone want to be BUMPED UP...  would waiting an extra 10 mins really hurt you or your GROUP ????  Do you really believe you are that important ??  :no:  :no:  :no:  :no:

I didnt say food.. I will buy an occasional drink (birthday etc) singer or non. My host has a $25 bar tab and I have the same. We will typically eat before the show and still have $15 -$20  credit remaining. It is a standard business practice and for you to hint that I am whoring out my business is an insult to me and my host.
 LMAO  LMAO  LOL  LOL

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Apologize if an insult was perceived...  I would say if you are buying drinks off of your FREE TAB ... you may want to tip the bartender.

My thoughts exactly. I'm just used to being part of the staff often as mngr. In fact I am going to start giving the one that pays me at the end of the night a five or so.

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This is one of the reasons I am still on this forum. I wade through all the crap and all of a sudden a thread comes along and answers one of those questions that one forgets while at the keyboard. Dont think an old dog cant learn new tricks!!! These little things make or break a business.

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I average 10 singers a night that want to change their song after they put one in.  Should i be compensated a little extra to take care of you the way you want to be taken care of?   You know it's still extra work for me to keep adjusting the queue.  Maybe i should just say, once it's in, it's in and there will be no changes.

We can change a singers preference and have it running in 3 seconds. This is an advantage of digital karaoke. Our regulars are used to it and take advantage of it. This is a common service of professional karaoke hosts.

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Well, the term "bribe" is not just a little negative in everyday usage it is a very bad thing!

No, Jamkaraoke, I don't feel any self-importance nor do I think that my group is better than any other group.  Actually, I feel to the contrary, and your last response to me just supports my justification for being sensitive about not BEING TREATED THE SAME AS ANYONE ELSE.  And when I am not, I will and have gone elsewhere!!!  

AND, FYI, I AM NOW A KJ, and it is I who started the recent thread about how to put bribers in their place.  But, now I understand how difficult that can actually be for any KJ who wants to run an HONEST rotation.  Bribers have learned that the bribe can work.  And I also now understand why some bribers are offended when I DON'T take their bribe.

Bribers don't have to be respectful of the other singers. Bribers can sing their songs and leave while others are hanging around, spending their money and supporting the other singers' efforts.  How silly you must think it is of those who wait their turn instead of bribing you?

Jamkaroke, while your post in my thread on "Stars" displays a dislike of "Stars" (they are probably the epitomy of self-centeredness), you justify self-centeredness regarding the rotation when it "greases your palm".  Then you accuse those who feel they are not being treated fairly of being the ones who are self-centered.  Hmm?  Makes little sense to me.  

I'm really confused. I worked my way through school in the hospitality industry; no one needs to tell me about tips!!  And as a KJ, I am getting paid what is a fair rate.  If I've accepted less than a fair rate, I have no one to blame but myself.  And if it is not a fair rate, I certainly shouldn't be looking for bribes from my singers to supplement my income!  Furthermore, they're already paying the establishment for their amusement (contributing to what I get paid)!

Eric,
Welcome to the world of KJ'ing,  Give it a few years and a few hundred shows and  then see if your views change just a little.

Let me clarify-- I do not advocate KJ's soliciting money to bump the rotation.
I don't believe KJ's should post any signs inviting SING NEXT FOR $20.

I don't believe the occasional acceptance of a "tip" to be able to sing next is a major crime against the KJ rule book.   A $20 tip is equal to a 10% pay increase for most KJ's and could pay for GAS to and from the show.  Singers and other KJ's should not look down or frown upon someone for accepting the OCCASIONAL "tip" to be NEXT...just my $02     If you bump 1 singer in the rotation it equates to about 4-1/2 to 6 minutes if time.  Not a big deal in my book.

You will learn real fast that although you are a paid contractor by the venue  the singers will soon make you feel like you work for THEM.   And despite what many say ...you don't !  Most are hired to provide a service of karaoke which includes a personable kj a decent sound system and selection and a rotation that does discriminate against anyone for GENDER RACE OR RELIGION.   But the management of the rotation is the KJ's responsibility.  I might and have bump people on occasion ( most times for NO MONEY)  I might swap singers due to song selection to mix things up.  And I have on occasion SKIPPED PEOPLE by accident.

The key to above is ON OCASSION it may and does happen --its just part of the business and if it does .......get over it already and have a drink.

Here's kind of a weird analogy regarding what people will eventually learn to really respect, and that is a KJ who will not BUDGE on things like bribery.

When my kids were young, we always had a HOUSEFUL of other kids....The kids all thought it was funny because I had such stiff standards about things - like the main rule, if it isn't yours, don't touch it...etc. They LOVED the fact that I set such stern boundaries for them because they never had to think...they knew if they just followed the rules, they'd be where everyone else wanted to be and they loved it. I think grownups are a lot like kids that way - consistency is the key. No surprises.

What I'm trying to say here, I guess, is that if the rules are the rules, and you are consistent with every single person who comes in, and no one has to wonder if this time the KJ is going to fall prey to shady rotation, everyone is happy.

I see absolutely NO reason to give anyone special treatment. Otherwise you end up dealing with a million and one comments: "Well you did it for HIM/HER! What about us???"  I don't have time to deal with that petty crap during a show or at any time at all. People know how I am, they LOVE that I treat everyone the same, and nobody minds when the rotation gets long. But I DO reserve the right to flash that wicked "MOM FACE" when people get out of control and you can't even IMAGINE how well it works!

Karen, thank you.

It will never be said better than that!

I agree as well.  As a singer I don't like to see it either, as a KJ I won't allow it.  If you want to compensate me on a job well done, I DO have a tip jar out.  I generally go above & beyond to help the singers by either helping them find a song, writing up their slips, saving their slips, adjusting their sound tailored to them, purchasing their requests, etc., if you feel I am doing a good job, then drop a tip in my jar, I do not ever expect one, nor ever point to it or even make mention of it, it's just there.
If you expect a favor for cash, sorry!  All the customers are treated the same.

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If you are the singer and you drop a tip, what do you expect for the money?  

Do you want favors?  

Or is it your way of showing me how much you like what i do?

Lonman, I am with you on this - go crazy out of my way sometimes when it comes to helping individual singers - sing along if they want, find a special version for them, very carefully adjust their mic so they sound the best they can, look up a song for them, etc., etc. That is part of doing the job right. I do NOT expect tips, I enjoy them when they come my way but I do not put a tip jar out for some reason. I get ribbed about that but fact is, I chose the gig, I get paid well, I do the job right, and everybody is happy. Some are just happier than others and show it with a few bucks.  

Personal opinion on this, but at times it seems like a tip jar cheapens a show -- especially when a less than GREAT host puts it out and stuffs it with their own ones before the start of the show. I feel NO obligation to tip a less than great host. I do, however, compliment great hosts and thank them for doing such a great job when they make me sound good.  (Those hosts will often show up at my show and offer the same compliment, and somehow it seems like more valuable than a tip to me..."the Mutual Admiration Society!" )

k

Say you have a bar with a big crowd (to big for karaoke)... 60 people for example who want to sing.

Five of them are willing/able to spend $20 to sing. The other 55 are not. End of show half of those 55 are not happy because they did not get to sing because they felt that they were being pushed around by a rich guy who bribed their way to the top. Next week many of those 55 don't show up for the show. The 5 who paid to sing do but they have a less fun time because it is a much smaller crowd. They dont come back for week three, or if they do they don't tip because the rotation is short.

End result - empty bar. No tips, bar cuts the pay of the KJ to make ends meet, or cancels Karaoke completely.

On the other hand if you stay with a strict rotation, people try to come to the bar early to sign up to get a better chance to sing. Everyone else sees that as fair, eventually the bar talks you into starting an hour earlier and gives you a raise. Because they have a bigger crowd in the room for a longer time=more drinks sold.

Not saying that this will happen, or at least to the extent of my grim prediction, but it can happen.

It all depends on how many people out of your busy show can afford to make a big tip, and how much they will be offended by others doing so.

The other problem as well is that some of the people most eager to sing sometimes are the ones that are the most drunk... The booze has taken away all thier restraint with money, and their ability to sing is probably gone as well (if they ever had it). Some of those drunk people will hurt your show in the long run as it decreases the quality of the show greatly, especially if the drunk with the bribe shows up already trashed in the bar and only spend 15 minutes there bar-hopping but wants to sing for his 15 minutes of shor attention span.

Our country has class resentment and envy, and the best way to remind people of it is to let people thow their money around. This fact has not been missed by those on this board who have criticized me for doing unpaid karaoke shows.

While my actions would only negatively impact a few local KJs (and belive me not to much since the market is already tanked), the situation changes when you could be annoying a big portion of the bar. It is those people who you want there the next week, and they should never be annoyed.

That said a tip jar is a whole different thing. If no favors are involved....
Sure a complement is one way of making you feel good about doing a good job at your show. That is why I do it. Some people are not big about saying thanks "openly" they are just more quiet. Some of them are the people who "feel good" about giving a "tip" for a job well done as a complement to the KJ. So long as the tip is not expected no-one is really hurt by a tip jar, and in some cases it makes the giver feel good about themselves as well as the recieving KJ.

Good point DRFred.   I don't really want to do a show longer than 4 hours.   There is enough alcohol consumed in 4 hours.   To me longer than 4 means your chances of something going wrong crowd wise, is higher.

I have people that really want me to take their money.  They want to show me how much they like me.  I had a guy last week come up and tell me his wife really loves me.    He almost sounded a little jealous.

A less than strict rotation will hurt you in the long run.    The singers are like hawks looking for a mouse.  They count and keep track of where they should be.  Any deviation and they let you know by asking where they are in the rotation.   Adding a bribe system is going to alienate many people.   I wouldn't like it.    Paying money to sing, you may as well play the jukebox.

As far a s tip jars.   Everyone gets tips.  

Bartenders get an hourly wage and tipping is expected for good service.   What do you consider good bartender service?  Isn't their job to pour drinks?   Will a tip buy a bigger shot?     Taller glass of beer.     Faster service?    

Hair stylists charge a fee for their service.   They get tips but should they?    Is my haircut going to be any better or different than yours if i don't tip?   Will they wash my hair different?    Will a tip buy me better color?

DJs get tips.  Is it to play the song you request faster?    Louder?    A better version?

A bartender last night expressed her displeasure to me about 2 female singers.  She told me she is done waiting on them.   Because they never tip her and they act like bytches until they want a drink.   Well maybe it's the other way around.  I have heard other complaints about her service.  People have to wait and the bar isn't that busy.    Good service first, tips later.  

Do i expect tips.  Not really.  Do i like tips, yes.   Am i in the habit of taking money for favors, no.   I like the tips for no reason.