Karaoke Forums

I agree with Kurt,  and in THIS case the key word is THE INDIVIDUAL, or THE SINGER who often does have a discerning ear, and isn't just a kid in a bar that wants to get drunk and layed. To make a blanket statement as to what is important to singers from limited scope as a part time KJ working in one type of bar describing what you have noticed without distinguishing initially necessary aspects is demeaning to singers or any that do have discerning ears and take their singing far more seriously, and respect music as an artform, hence backing quality becomes more of an issue too, in a Karaoke setting.  MANY DO CARE, and KJ's work in other atmospheres besides one type of bar is this not true ? SOME do feel that SoundChoice assuming they do not have the time to scrutinize given a particular genre of music is a safer bet than certain other manus based on THEIR experience, naturally this also means some don't feel that way as well, sure, that's a given !  You are admitting after the fact, that you aren't familiar enough with other aspects of Karaoke that might dispute your premise, and asking questions after making your somewhat definitive assertion -which is fine, however that is the bottomline, you didn't consider singers and KJ's that have reasons to go for custom discs from a certain manu spending more money for quality because it DOES matter.

So:  Given your own experience
and this means just that, qualifying initially that the statement is PURELY based on YOUR OWN scope which in time evolved to limited scope.


yet as Jian mentioned, and you yourself mentioned in alluding to "assuming a KJ doesn't have time to scrutinize" there do exist manus that have won the confidence of certain singers and KJ's alike as being safer bets in CERTAIN genres than other manus, correct ? (that at least was the case prior to this thread) Yet true, little is absolute. So in certain cases YES, the manu matters even given your own example Eric (assuming one has less time). Stating given my observation would've been fair, yet to go back and make a statement similar to, "well that goes without saying", or injecting tangents in response to those disagreeing lends little credibility to your initial assertion that's presented without such qualification (meaning what factually turns out to be opinion from pretty limited scope).

Similarly, In my case (also limited scope) I never knew anything about certain aspects of Karaoke prior to 6 months ago,  most will tell you about my particular concession regarding NOT KNOWING that in most cases in the US, Karaoke manus could not doctor up original song renditions just omitting a vocal track.. In brief, Some of Soundchoices bands are so good, they had me fooled when mixed in on a Karaoke Jukebox that did have certain original illegal copies too, OR, they were good enough for me (with a discerning ear) not to even question "Is this the original band", as opposed to an excellent coverband, Clearly SC has a decent quantity or percentage rate of excellent cover musicians working for them !!  Some others manus may, some may not, in either case manu to some matters for this reason because some trust certain manus more than others. Sometimes without vocals it's tougher to tell, AND in the cases of harddrives containing some illegal original renditions (from abroad) mixed in such as the case with the CAVS JB I was singing with years back certain SC classic rock renditions had me fooled when alongside bootleg renditions of original bands.. IMHO SC has the highest percentage given MY genre of interest of great Karaoke backings but this is MY opinion meaning I'd buy Soundchoice for the larger 60's and 70's R&B hornband backing they produce in their studios such as EW&F, BS&T, Chicago, and even male ballad singers I enjoy attempting to sing to.. IMHO Kudo's to SC coverbands..  Manu matters TO ME as a wannabe singer, and it matters to certain singers I know, because a few manus have earned more trust than others in various areas of music.. NOT ALL of course !!  I won't generalize, and that is my point, one shouldn't make generalities from limited scope about "Singers" even in karaoke contexts because those differ venue to venue/ event to event.

Problem is Eric,  you have also gone back and revised some of your earlier statements, and later rhetorically attempted to evolve your initial thread into a different philosophical direction, so Cueball is accurate, and imho to respond at this point to some of your earlier postings wouldn't be accurate, you are doctoring and evolving from your initial post. Yet to say anything more on this would also be going around and around in circles.

Interesting topic !  Enjoyed.  I learned to me manu matters,  if I had to buy hastily, and the two options were legend and soundchoice, given my genre of interest, I know which manu I trust more and I SUCK at singing !  What right do I have to assume other singers elsewhere don't care ?  Especially when I know many that have a MUCH better ear than I do !  LMAO.  Had the word "singer" not been used, I'd not have stepped in with singer perspective, that is something I have some awareness of.  I won't make ANY definitive statement regarding KJ's, I have NO right.  I do however know some will be more or less likely to agree with your initial statement regarding "The singer".

Unfortuneately at this point the discussion has turned into

Statement:  "You said"

Response:   "No I didn't, or at least I didn't mean it that way"


that being said, what can I say ? <shrug>

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

. Probably from the same individual the bar owner where I first experienced Karaoke got his, OR, from their own music library using their vocal removing device ?  What's to say these aren't the original ?  However, don't some of the Motown songs and songs that are public domain allow for original use ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Eric, this thread did morph, and yes, you are contradicting yourself. Remind me again, what is the title of this thread (which you opened)??? Unless I have missed something, this thread was (supposed to be) about the singer, not the KJ, and how they sometimes strive to have (what they believe to be) the best version of a song in their libraries.  



That says it right there! It DOES MATTER to the Singer. And, BTW, there's more than just a few of us out there in "the universe of karaoke."

To the average drunk singer, drinking matters not the rendition.

I have many singers that are concerned about how the music sounds.   They want the best version and if they have to, they will provide it.    If i have it in the dupes i'll change my listing to reflect their opinion, if i don't know the song.

Good singers do not want to sound bad.  A bad song version can screw them up and make them sound bad.   So i say the answer is "singers" (not drunks singing) prefer the best version they can hear.    Doesn't matter who manufacturered it.  

The technical answer, according to the thread title is, NO.   They want the best version, period.

If I go into a bar, I am now familiar with the manus versions (process of elimination) that I wish to sing.  I will *assuming I sing one of the songs I've been working on request*, request IE.. "Kiss from a rose" SC,  If the KJ has Chartbuster, I'll pass on singing, one other backing version I couldn't tolerate to even listen to more than a few bars.  I'll ask the KJ if he has the Soundchoice rendition, so it matters to me... Some renditions transpose better, others perhaps might be in a different key-   Sometimes the singer already knows which rendition THEY believe is the best or most comfortable version for them, so to them the manu matters, right ?

Answer:  In some cases yes, others no.

Some when on a stage singing wish to do the best job they can ! Even in a Karaoke setting. The only reference point is manu version.



Exactly.  Afterall singing is an area of aesthetics, some want to sound good on a stage.  THEY CARE

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Well, if you are only ever going to request a certain manufacturer, then it matters.  

Based on what criteria?  Just who made it?

But if you want to sing the best version, it doesn't matter.

Now if you request a certain manufacturer because you happen to know it's the best version compared to others, it matters.

So it makes a difference on how well informed and experienced you are with the song and different versions.   If you only know one version and you only sing from Sound Choice no matter how good the version actually is, it's subjective.

Absolutely, but some of we singers, (or wannabe singers training in my case) are VERY aware of what manu offers what, or at least what manu has the rendition we have been practicing,  and we drill, and practice, and work hard at the version we deem acceptable to us, and like any musician, we practice in hopes of sounding good !  That is the goal for some.  

Because not unlike the KJ,  some singers take pride in the art too !!   Hence in my above example communication to the KJ before hand during a quiet moment would be

"Excuse me,  do you have SC Kiss From a Rose" ?  NOt saying he's not a good KJ if he doesn't have it,  I'm citing an example of where it does matter.  The Chartbuster rendition isn't bad BUT IMHO, it's not as flattering !  LOL  (I sound like a high maint byotch now,  well I'm a Diva,  what can I say?)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Let me just provide a few personal examples of what I've retained..

Group:  Chicago
Song :   25 or 6 to 4


SC- Most realistic horn section and arrangement, I like the tempo of this rendition

Chartbuster- Pretty good but it doesn't get me going, Just lacking something

Legend-  Not horrendous in this case, but I'd never want the backing.

Soundchoice would be only rendition I'd wish for because it works for me..

Group: Chicago
Song  Colour My Word

Chartbuster-  I like the piano sound and tightness and punchiness of this    
                    pronounced bass and the organ is really tastefully done, nice
                    sounding rendition

SC             - Don't like the bass, not pronounced enough, Piano not realistic enough
                   drums too processed sounding, Organ sounds like poop

Legend       - Sounds like it's all done on a Korg X-3 Worstation with sequencer.

In this case Chartbuster would be my pick. (Yes, this is SUBJECTIVE of course)
it's questionable which version is "better", this is what I would opt for given this song

A few other renditions are similar,  I like to consider Karaoke the band I am singing with.  GIven a choice I want to sing with the better band.

And you can be dang certain, that if I were a KJ,  I'd pick out, and listen this same way to songs that I purchase for my library..  Why would I wish to own anything other than what I believe are the best renditions anyway ? If I have a choice


For Blood Sweat and Tears outside of  "You've made me so very happy" and "Spinning wheel" by SC, Legend has other renditions that work, aren't that bad and I could live with them.  Choice on any song in this genre would be SC !!

Again my point is, I'd absolutely make certain I listen to songs that I'm interested in as a singer prior to singing with the backings, ESPECIALLY prior to purchasing them.
Doesn't seem unreasonable, it doesn't take tremendous time to listen to backings if done over years... Doesn't seem there's a new pop release every hour that makes in impossible for the KJ to keep up with what is out there, and getting added to the pop areas in their respective genres

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Seriously,  given ANY other option, would any of you want this in your library assuming you had other options ??

http://www.singsnap.com/snap/singandrec ... id=b41c4c2

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Next time a couple of old timers come into a bar with guitars I will not sing with them I DO NOT WANT TO SOUND BAD The next time some musicians are having are having a jazz jam in the back I will shun them I D N W T S B.. If I cant like sound exactly like Frank Sinatra every time I sing Summer Wind I will not sing.

I have news for you I am not Frank Sinatra and when I am singing, ego or what I am sounding like has nothing to do with it. I can walk into any show worldwide and take it over. At my show last night I opened the show with Half AS Much By Hank Williams and due to the fact we were busy did not sing much but sang one time again. I did After The Loving. I constantly get requests to sing. When I and my host sing back to back the crowd energy level is at max or those levels have not been seen since not seen since discos.

I know how to work crowds and I do not need crutches or certain brands of cd's. I am genuine. Not only that 90% of our singers are the same way. WE sing to have fun. Some of us has pro polish when we pick up a mic. Some do not. But when we sing there are smiles and hands in the crowd with thumbs up. It is not because we are the best singers in the world It is because we provide a high energy show that packs the bar out on a regular basis.

I would rather have a stranger walk up to me and say we  put on a good show than applause after singing or have somebody asking about private parties. If you will examine the bar tab thread you will see pics from sat night. I have the best host that ever graced the stage of karaoke. WE could take 5-10 of our singers and take over any show in the world. And we dont need certain brands or a super system although we do have both. At this time I forget the thread theme but dont care. I make top honest  money singing DO YOU?

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Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

Let's hear you.  Sub something so we can hear you.  About time you get called on your superior ability !  I think you are bluffing !  Put up !!  Bare the goods !




Common,  I need some energy,  and I don't feel like taking geritol, and dosing myself with cafeine.  Share some of this contact high one gets from hearing you sing oh great one !   We lesser folk need to hear that which we've yet to hear the likes of !

Otherwise, how does any of the above chatter pertain to DISC manufacturers being important or unimportant to singers ?  Yet Still,  Share the brilliance oh Golden CHords  :worship:  :worship:  You've been challenged to a showdown !  Be a man and put your money wherer your type is.  In turn,  I'll keep my part of the bargain and display singing acumen that can curl paint off've walls, and scare whatever is impounded in area 51 back to another galaxy.

Produce Ollie,  Very easy now-adays to share a skill online !  You're being called !

You sing a cowboy song,  and I'll produce something that's almost tolerable too !



Let's here some of that    I remember those lyrics !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

He's called you out!  Just like Gary Cooper in "High Noon."

(Getting tuneful) Do not forsake me oh my darlin'....

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Okay, who took my pants?

This is more along the lines of "Three O'clock High" Exweed


Common Ollie,  get those teeth in, and let's hear some croonin  !  Or are you gonna run ?  We've heard Keith, he's good,  I've sung, I suck, everyone has sung except the man with over 60 years experience, the man who sang for royalty as a kid, the man who's sung all over the globe !!!    Step up to the plate !!  Let's see why it is your poster is plastered all over the 12th floor !  

Enough talk,  produce THE GOODS !


(I'll be in Singsnap training for the main event,  somebody let me know when it is)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Heres a DIRECT example of why I choose a "LOW-BUDGET OFF-BRAND" version over SOUNDCHOICE. In this case its a KARAOKE BAY disc that has Muddy Waters "Mannish Boy" on it. It is almost EXACTLY what was actually played by Muddy Waters. Good production quality too. The SC version on the other hand is true to the original musically but for some unknown reason they recorded it with THIS GOD-AWFUL LIVE CROWD EFFECT of whislting and cheering in the background. Its HIDEOUS and incredibly distracting. I dont know if they put it in to get the crowd going or what--but its simply hideous! Ill take the KARAOKE BAY VERSION EVERYTIME!! And I carry it with me. Even the big mega computer catalog KJ's often times dont have THAT ONE!!

So thats why I or others would choose something other than what the KJ has---simply dont like those versions!!

So they bring their own!!

Oh and this goes back to the other thread of computer KJ's refusing to play something someone brought with them. Again---if they wont or cant play what I bring with me(ALL STORE BOUGHT ORIGINALS---handed to them CLEAN and in a JEWEL CASE---then I have MAJOR disapointment in that evening/visit and wont be back to sing with them again. And if they cant see the DISSAPOINTMENT in my or other custies faces as we get told NO and register no regret about it-or appologize ----then I REALLY DONT WANT TO HANG OUT AT THAT PLACE or WITH THAT PERSON--cause OBVIOUSLY they dont care about our disappointment and are only interested in their own ego or convienence(and I say this as an active KJ who has to deal with not haveing particular songs a custie might want to sing--so I KNOW that DISSAPOINTMENT LOOK).

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

dupe

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

With you on this, Swingcat. I have found some very good versions off-label...too bad there isn't one PERFECT manu...

I shudder when I don't have something someone wants to sing but I sure have it next week. No easier way to ingratiate yourself with singers if they ask and they receive!  Oh, my regulars KNOW that all they have to do is feign disappointment and I'll rise to the bait. Conversely, I LOVE to see the smiles when someone comes running up, slip in hand, waving it madly saying, "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU HAVE THIS!" and it can be something i've had for months, but there are hosting companies who don't believe in buying new music. Maybe it's because I'm a rabid, avid singer that needs new challenges constantly, but I can't go a month without buying something new. Get butterflies when the song(s) arrive and I have something I need to WORK on. There are a lot of our followers who are the same way. They DO appreciate it when I tell them they don't have to spend $25 on a disc for the one song they're dying for, that I'll get it for them...somehow...and hopefully not spend $25.

I intentionally chose MTU Hoster so I will have the ability to play our singers' CDGs - a lot of picky singers come to our shows and to deny them the use of their own music would be quasi-suicidal.  There is a local show where they can't play my music and they have the WORST, out of date collection, not to mention crappy equipment...went in one time to meet someone ... once we found each other, we were OUTTA there and won't go back.

Agreed, The best backings don't mean much assuming the KJ doesn't run his equipment well, or have a discerning ear optimizing sound quality, or balancing the  sound.  Of course this is a huge consideration too mentioned earlier.. The presentation of the music is VERY important, not "having the best version ever produced", yet all things being equal, it'd be ideal if the best KJ on the best equipment had the better renditions.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

And you just proved my point. You have contridicted your own words...

repeat quote:
I have many singers that are concerned about how the music sounds.   They want the best version and if they have to, they will provide it.  
end repeat quote

If that doesn't come across as the DISC Manufacturer IS IMPORTANT to Singers, then I don't don't know what you're saying sidewinder!!!!!

The means a singer uses to communicate to the KJ which backing version he is interested in singing is by referencing *manufacturer* right ?  unless there's some sixth sense at a few folks bars in which case I still must resort to manu rendition since I'm not that gifted.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven, you have cited Chicago songs and gave some very descriptive reasons for your like and dislike of said songs.  But you have missed one very big deciding factor and it isn't just based on your personal taste.    Which version sounds like the original song?

All of the instrumentation you pointed out may be very full and rich sounding.  The strings and horns may sound absolutely perfect.  But does the best instrumented song version that gets your thumbs up, sound like the original recording?

Eric, is this what you are talking about when you want to know if the singers like and choose a certain manufacturer?

Before any singer buys a karaoke disc for a particular song.  They have only ever heard and sang to, be it by radio, internet, disc....whatever the version the singer that made that song famous sang.    So i think if they are going to spend the money to buy a disc, they would want to get the version they are most familiar with.  That would be the original one.   It's what i would want.   I don't care how fantastic all of the instrumentation is, if you can't tell what song it's really supposed to be, why buy it?    And what good is it?   I have heard some absolutally horrible song versions that you would never know the song unless you read the title screen.