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I've been at the same place for two years now.  It's a small redneck bar that over the years I've been able to bring in a more diverse crowd to.

Lately, I've been doing some thinking about the popularity of my show, and the size of the bar.  When a speaker of mine went down for the fourth time (and this one was a $1300 JBL) in two years I seriously considered stopping at that point.  Not KJing, but working that bar.  It gets way busy and it's too small of a joint.

My speaker survived the fall, save for a little cosmetic blemish and I was talked into staying, it's been about a month.  A dart team just started on the same night I do my week day show, and they share space with me.  I can't set up until they're done (9:30-10:00).  That didn't set well with me.  I have a show that has grown for two years now, I have a decent following and singers that come in between the 9 and 10 o'clock hours because they know they can get an extra song in before the surge.  

I asked the owner if she would ask the team to shoot across the street (at her husband's bar), she said no, HELL NO.  Claiming these were her friends and they spend a lot of money in the bar (even said those four dart players spend more money in the bar then she makes on karaoke nights -  LMAO), and she wouldn't ask them to move.  She was adamant.  I was thinking what am I besides your cash cow?  Chopped liver?  I didn't go into the economics of it all, my show is THE show in my little town, despite the five or six others that try.  That's not a secret.  I'm one of three in my area that acutally invests in equipment and music.

I packed up my equipment on Saturday because I'd secured another gig with tons of extras that my current place didn't have (right next door to the local mecca of live entertainment, a real stage, a dance floor, little bit more money (including beers and a meal, etc.)).  Oh, the options.  This place is only a block away from the old place.  I'd already been thinking I'd outgrown my old joint, coupled with the owner's decision to keep the one dart team, regardless of how it affected the show and her bottom line, made me approach this other owner and inquire about gigging there.  She said yes, and I made the decision to hop joints.  

I called the old owner and explained that I felt I needed to move on, I wanted a chance to do more with my show.  She was caught off guard and wished me luck (not too genuine though).  The bad part about it all is the owner at the new place is at war with the old owner and her husband's bar (new owner used to own old owners' husband's bar - some dirty tax issues and an offer and it was bought out from underneath her).  Small towns.  She's spent two years planning their fall and building this new place.  I want to feel bad, but the old owner made a business decision (stupid one IMHO), and it made it easier to make my decision.  I've been loyal as hell to this old place, where was the loyalty in return?  

I'm excited.  Hung out in town last night talking with people, and so far everyone says they're now coming to the new place to follow my show.   Do any of you have bartenders that think your singers come to see them?  Mine did, and they'll soon realize they weren't.  One bartender understood my decision, the other doesn't want to talk about it yet (she viewed us as a team, and so did I).  I care about the old place, the people, and am proud of what we accomplished there, but the owner didn't give me my due (in my opinion).  She suggested moving me in a corner.  I don't think so.  

What are some of your gig changing stories?  I'll bet you have some doozies.

good luck  LMAO

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Bummer but it sounds like you've made the right decision. I left a 4-year stint at a place where I had literally dragged them out of the gutter -- to 2 nights of karaoke (including one family night) and made them more on those 2 nights than they made on their blues bands on the weekends.  

There was an old, old tavern in town had been bought and renovated by someone this owner didn't care for - and the new place went from tavern to serving food and hard pop....So, when the new guy asked me if I would come and do a show on Sundays, I said sure, to help him out.  Owner of the 4-year gig says to me, "You can't work anywhere else in town if you work for me."  Ironically I had been pretty well the only show worth frequenting in town for years, and had worked at 2 other taverns without any issues at all. Problem was, the new place wasn't just a tavern. This owner felt very threatened, I guess. He said I was pulling his Sunday night crowd, which believe it or not, was an old swing band (old meaning players were old), who attracted a bunch of tea-totalling oldsters who came there to dance.

I explained to the owner that no, there was no fear of those people sneaking out of their dancing night to come and sing karaoke up the street. He then proceeded to tell me that in no uncertain terms, the people came there to see his PLACE, not us.  Well that made me laugh out loud in his face. I said, "I guess we'll see, won't me."  We had literally a shouting match in front of his place....

Since then he has sold the place but in the interim, it went down to nothing again...over the course of about a year (by the time everyone realized we weren't there anymore, and there was no other THurs night show in town)....Most of them found me at other places and followed.

I told him I would only play at his place if he paid me NOT to go anywhere else. Turned out he just DESPISED the owner of the newly renovated tavern....figured he'd get me to cancel out the Sunday night gig (which turned into Thurs & Sun soon after) by threatening me like that.  Stupid, stupid owner.

I also did 2 years at a smallish, local casino (only cards, no machines) ... Brought their weekends back to life for karaoke....then they start telling me I can't hire a sub...like I was their employee...that I can't have a tip jar (which I didn't really  have anyway), and other ridiculous things. I didn't trust the manager at all, and all the employees used to come to me complaining about her.  So when the right moment came, I pulled out.  

Seriously, Croakdog, I believe these owners believe themselves after repeating it enough times that their patrons come to see them or the bartenders.  That is a JOKE. I have watched the casino gig drop down to nothing - the guy STILL (after 1-1/2 years)  hasn't figured out how to hook up the big plasma tv on the wall.  

Glad you picked up a new place where hopefully they'll respect you for making their place 'THE' place to come to. Small towns can be a real pain when things get rocky.

I'll plan on coming up again soon to see your new digs if we're welcome?....

Karen

The job i got fired from because of my price increase is learning a lesson about who draws the crowd. (and plays so loud, baby it's the KJ man)

He made 3 huge mistakes.

1. He thought people were coming to the bar, like "it" was the attraction.
2. He severely underestimated my power to draw.
3. He put me in the same catagory as the crap KJ that's now killing his business.

Bar owners are their own demise.   Their own worst enemy.

They under estimate the true value of a good KJ.  We are working steady because we can.   The popularity of karaoke is still very strong.   And profitable, but not with any KJ.


Remember this.  He is not the only businessman involved here.   Your business is just as importatnt to you.  You made a business decision based on your business.

I use to be worried about being "fired." For various stupid reasons.  Most of the time it's a blessing.   Never worry about walking out of one, over stupid issues.   You will recover, the bar may not.

Karen - of course you're welcome.  When you come up, the new place is on the corner on the next block.

My little town has truly become an entertainment mecca.  I was the shiznit that brought DJ into town last year.  It was always on the perimeter, but when the right people saw how maniacal people got during the DJ portions of my show, one owner had his house KJ use my show's format (which he overdid - forgot that the karaoke crowd was the base) and then another owner opened up what has become a seriously unbelieveable live entertainment venue (which just happens to be less than a breath away from my new place).  Tons of overspill.

The old owner here is going to bring in a KJ that I'm friends with.  He just lost his gig (at the old owner's husband's bar - which is right across the street from where I'm at starting Wednesday).  This KJ doesn't have the crowd or show skills to keep a crowd happy (one of the reasons he lost his gig).  He'll be working on house equipment again, a way outdated book, etc.  There are some loyal customers that will stay (because of the owner/bartenders), but I'm guessing 85-90% will follow my show.  It made me laugh (to the point where my belly ached) when the owner said one dart team spends more money in a week in her bar than she makes in karaoke (she was a little upset that I was leaving), but the fact that she's going to use this ousted KJ (speculative at this point) to compete with me is even funnier.  No one in town competes with me.  They know better.  My Wednesday shows close down the town, and Fridays have rocked despite the massive draw this other live entertainment place joint has become (He also has a DJ in on Saturday).  It is keeping a couple of the other establishments in business.  They're under a watchful eye though, because every Friday there are cops and ambulances outside their place (bouncers caught drinking, fights, people walking out with booze, etc.).  That place gets crazy beyond words.  Where better to establish second fiddle then right next door.  Format to match the new crowd's desires, and if he goes down, I'm playing first fiddle (bar does a live band on Saturdays as well).

I'm going to do so much with my show now (more lights (just bought a disco ball set up) - fog, strobe (still need a center piece on control) - lots of effects (tempered of course).  I like to put on a show, not just show up.  That's what people expect of me.  On Friday's I'm going to stop karaoke at 12 and DJ.  Fridays are the nights the guy next door has his touring bands (and people come next door because they can't get a drink or pee).

My first gig is on Wednesday, and I'm a little anxious (and scared).  I'm already a local celeb, and this has elevation written all over it.  Just need to make sure my head doesn't explode (that's what my girlfriend says).  

Sounds like it was the best move you could have made. I am looking forward to getting a live peak!

k

BTW - I JUST LOVE YOUR ENTHUSIASM FOR THIS BUSINESS!  It is so easy to get dragged down by the turkeys - i.e., pirates who don't give a darn about putting on a good show.  People look at me like I'm a nut case sometimes because I am so enthusiastic about what I do, and it's nice to hear another person who shares the same enthusiasm.



K

Thanks Karen.  I think if more of us use more show, some of these hacks would be forced out.  I've already proven that to some extent in my area.

Good one!

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I love being a mom!

Not to hijack the thread!! But my feeling about this forum is restored!! Lets talk about real problems!!  

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Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

Yeah!! for KJs.

The bar I left is advertising that I 'quit'.  They're billing their new karaoke (same nights), as Even Better Karaoke w/Anna.  Anna is the bartender that secured me the gig two years ago.  She loves to sing.  When I told her I was moving on, she lamented that we were a team, how could I do this to her.  She knows nothing about the karaoke business.  She's filled in for one gig maybe three years ago.  I love her to death, and wish her well, but the house system sucks, the books suck, and she doesn't know how to work a board.  The fact that they're running the shows on the same nights is what makes me laugh.  Gee, same price for patrons, do you want a BMW or a Ford Taurus?  

The owner there is making a series of bad decisions out of spite.  I left a message for Anna and wished her sincere luck.  If she were making good decisions herself she'd follow me (my new place needs a couple of experienced tenders).  She's loyal, and I imagine will go down with the ship.  

I have my first gig tomorrow, and still a little anxious.

It has been my experience that when it comes to karaoke, some of the worst business decisions have been made...And what Anna and that bar is doing is one of them.   Silly of them to even MENTION you .. all it does is draw attention to their quandary.  They'll be empty ... and to do it on the same night you're doing it is suicide for them. What a shame. And small towns make all those sorts of issues even bigger than they are.

You'll be successful, as usual ... stay above the BS chitchat/gossip/backstabbing that no doubt will be spewing forth from up the street, do your top caliber show, and watch the flares go up from the sinking ship up the street.

Hate to see a place do that - make those kinds of decisions, because often they are irrevocable and their reputation will sustain PERMANENT damage from it. Just another amongst many places who will give a gazillion reasons that 'karaoke doesn't work here.'  


K

wow the bar I used to play at said that "I quit "them too after they told my wife where she works that they were going to cut out Karaoke for the summer (still hasen't said anything to me ) but kept the lower priced much lower quality kj that played a differant night no big loss started playing a differant bar and guess what most of the other bar patrons moved with me

If you stop karaoke for the summer, which they seem to think will save them money, actually ends up costing them more.  If you lose the karaoke crowd they find another place to sing on that night.  They will not be back in the winter.

If a bar owner tells me that, i can guarantee that i will not work for them again.  They will end up doing it again the following summer.  All of your hard work will go down the drain again.  No thanks... I'll find another steady gig.

In this area (I think, don't know) this is what it takes to draw *assuming a bar can*

-concentration of people that pass by, especially being in close proximity to businesses that have 2nd shift-

Sunday-  not much seems to pull that's afforcable-many bars are closed
Monday- A TV seems to work as well as anything else assuming the bar is open
Tuesday- Same TV and a few pool tables and a female bartender that's attractive
              as well as waitresses that are attractive, OR- attractive males that pull
                in attractive females that keep the cycle going
Wednesday-  Just call it ladies night and have a DJ.
Thursday- call it lades night again without the DJ, most of the guys that were at
                the place Wednesday will have been too drunk to recall it's not
               Wednesday again...
Friday and Saturday- KJ, or Band, alcohol, folks of the opposite gendre, family or
                                 friends in the area, colleges out, and a parking lot where
                                   people that want to get out've their houses can leave their
                                  cars to get alcohol and/or opposite gender.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Seems that all somebody needs to do is open a bar that stands a chance is use the following name and mission statement..

Name:  "Meat Market"

Mission Statement:

   "Attractive females pay less for alcohol at this bar"


(sounds PC to me)  

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Karaoke can work on any night of the week, unlike other things.

Croak, the first business man you need to worry about is you.  You need to make decisions that best benefit you.   The bar you work for is your second priority.
You should do nothing to harm them and they should do nothing to harm you.   Placing the dart league ahead of the karaoke, being a good or bad decision on the bar owners part remains to be seen.  But it puts a damper on the hard work that you have already done.   Whether they appreciate it or not is another question.   When they get that, i can make money without you attitude, i question what is coming next.   Usually it's me going, that comes next.

Do you feel it was a benefit to your business?    Don't worry about the bar owner.  They have to live on the decision they made.   You don't.

Croak-

    What you are describing is the bar business as *I* know it.  The other loyalty stuff aside from the bottom line or "cash flow" doesn't matter to most I've known in the business. What you state:


Most revenues I've played would answer the above with, "Exactly, I pay you to increase my own revenue because love and friendship aside from business aspects don't enable me to pay my overhead, my help, my suppliers, without which I could not stay open";  Regarding the "bad blood" between venues, that's not your issue, and shouldn't be your concern, you too are a business person, you have an agenda, need to work, and need a place that accommodates you.  The owner worries about HER (not you), and similarly same is extended to her help.  Bars are businesses, many struggling..  Not places I'd ever expect loyalty unfortunately..  Same with ANY small local business now-adays.. Few can afford "loyalty" to paid help assuming there's a means of increasing revenue, or cutting back payout expense

It's not a pretty business, it never was.  Glad you have options in s small location.

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Yeah Sidewinder, leagues always draw some revenue but give these folks around here darts, and they'll be wondering where the cocktail franks are that you're supposed to stick them in. Most of the venues up here are large and have at least several rooms,  Darts alone wouldn't affect anything else going on simultaneously,  (well that is with the exception of reckless endangerment cases, and homocides.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

But his problem is the dart board and the area to set up his karaoke equipment are one in the same.  So if darts are shooting he's sitting there twiddling his thumbs until they quit.

It interfers with his setup routine and the start time.

Nothing pi$$es me off more than walking in and having to wait for some jerks playing darts or sitting at a table and not wanting to move.   In the spot you need to set up.     I don't like to be late starting.  And i don't want to be rushed to set up.

There have been many jobs i have had, that the only place i could fit in the bar was in front of the dart board.  I usually go in and the first thing i do is unplug the board.  I have already had jerks want to throw darts around me and my equipment as i'm setting up.

The bar is going to fill up with people that are coming in for karaoke.  Not to watch the dart game.    The bar owner should throw them a fin and tell them to sit down.  Because they are going to cause the lose of money by delaying me.     Singers don't want to wait for a distraction to end or interrupt their singing time.

One more thing..She has blatantly said the darts are more important than the karaoke.   Well if you don't need the income from the karaoke...i'm outta here..Which is exactly what he did and exactly what he should have done.   Now she has room for another dart board.  And her next door bar competition has extra added income.     Win, win...