Karaoke Forums

Can you give me some idea as to how long it took you to rip your Karaoke collection to your hard drive?
How many discs, how many hours, days, weeks, etc.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks group!

I have completed ripping almost 900 CDGs to MTU Hoster - it takes approximately one minute per song, ripping at maximum speed. Some CDGs can't be ripped at maximum speed for one reason or another ... expand the time accordingly.

This is to HOSTER, not to other programs.

K

Thanks, Karen. I appreciate your input and it helps me out a lot.
The reason I am looking for input on this is because I was hired by a bar to set up a new computer system and rip their discs to computer. They were switching from the old disc system. It took me a week working with 3 computers in every waking hour, a total of at least 75 to 100 hours to rip their 200-300 or so discs. This bar has been a karaoke bar for around 8 or so years and were running with standard CDG discs.
Many of the discs were badly scratched and damaged, some even having chunks broken out of them! (Amazingly, these discs still played!)
When they got the bill, they nearly had a fit. I was told after they got the bill that they figured they could get their Karaoke girl to rip them in her spare time (She has an outside full time day job) and it would cost them less. They also figured (after the fact) that I should have only set up the system and nothing more. (Then why did they let me take the discs home to rip???!!)
If that was the case, then that would mean that they would have no songs for their show that night. They were very adamant that they needed the system as soon as possible since they had a province wide Karaoke contest starting the following week.
I did copy my files to their hard drive of the discs they had, thereby saving a lot of time. However, they had many, many discs that I didn't already have ripped and so I had to rip those discs. My take on it is that it would take this girl several months with the one computer they have and the time she has available. And that's not even renaming the songs like I did. I used a cdg renamer. This girl would have even more work renaming the songs since she doesn't have the renamer program, and I'm not about to give it to them. They would be without a karaoke show, or at least have a very piss poor one with only a limited library of maybe 100 or so songs. Hardly adequate for their province-wide contest.
I did the work using my own portable hard drive and then transferred the files to their drive.
Fortunately, a couple of days later, their drive failed, even though it was brand new.
I still have the original work backed up on my drive.
To make a long story short, the bar is now questioning the time and work I did and do not want to pay me the previously agreed upon price.
I am ready to pack it in and take my work and tell them to stuff it, and, since they no longer have my work on their drive, they will be unable to take it for free. However, that's a big paycheck to walk away from.
The alternative is to take my work, not give it to them, let them get their girl to try to do the job, and wait for the phone call that is sure to come in the coming week begging me for the work.
Their contest is a multi-week venture, has already begun, and will continue this Saturday.
Anyways, any other feedback regarding the time it takes to rip discs would go a long way to backing up my "claim" of the time it took to do this job.
Best regards!
Michelle

I had around 900 discs as well, ripped to MTU Hoster.  Used two computers, it took about 2 1/2 months, about 5-6 hours a day (minus weekends).

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Thanks, Lonman!
Much appreciated.

Diamel

I am not 100% sure I understand what your desires/intentions are now regarding the disputed CDGs you ripped and that are now on your hard drive.  I'm also have no way of knowing what the intentions of the establishement you're working with were when you ripped those CDs.  If I had to guess, I'd say you've encountered a case of buyer's remorse!

Nonetheless, here is the bottom line, as best as I can see it, based upon my limited understanding of the circumstances and the "players":
 -  On you hard drive, you have the fruits of you labor, which I am not sure why you kept.
 -  Technically what you have retained is an illegal copy, so you now own a "pirated/loaded" hard drive!
 -  The establisment for which you did the work, whether they specifically engaged you to rip all those discs or not. can no longer derive any benefit from you labor
 -  You can let them know you "happened to keep" a backup (technically illegal) copy and sell the drive to them, or you can withhold that information and leave them to their own devices!  In which case, ethically and legally, you cannot keep the 900 discs on your drive.
 -  If they immediately ask you to redo the job, you can then demand that they pay you a higher price than you previously asked based upon: your proven expertise in this area, the renaming program you have available, and the GUARANTEE that you'll have it done on time, since according to you they are now running out of time!

If they accept, set a price on delivering the ENTIRE loaded drive to them for an agreed upon price.  They now understand the need to have a backup drive and you'll save having to invest more time copying the material from your drive to a drive they will give you.  If they should insist on providing you with their own drive, so be it!

I'm not sure of the circumstances either. Did you agree on one price but charge them more because of the extra time involved? Or was it based on how many hours the job would take, and they don't believe that it took that long?

At any rate, you really have only two choices. Stick to your guns and wait for the call, or try to make the best of the situation and come up with a compromise figure somewhere in between. But whichever you choose, make it payment in advance!

But don't give them any more of a break than that or you are likely to get screwed again. If they don't go along you will just have to walk away empty handed unfortunately.

The time involved is almost impossible to calculate because ripping damaged and scratched CDs takes several times as long as  pristine ones. But it took me 3 1/2 weeks to rip 500 on a very fast computer with a lot of RAM, in combination with  naming tracks that turned up blank with no FreeDB database.

I would be curious as to the brand of hard drive that failed if you know it.

Didn't even see the part where she kept the songs on her hard drive as well, you can't do that, you do not own the originals, if they don't want to pay you, erase the drive that they do not want to pay you for your time, but you can't keep those songs, they aren't yours.

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Just out of curiosity, what did you charge them? I was seriously contemplating paying someone to do my ripping but when I figured out how long it took, I decided I didn't need to sleep for a month (LOL) and we did it at home ourselves.

Where are you located? (Obviously Canada - which coast?).

K

Actually, I had no intention of keeping the songs, but everything happened so fast that I had no chance to delete everything before they came back to me with problems.  I work another job, have a little one at home, and am generally a very busy person. I simply never got around to it before they came back with problems, which BTW was immediately afterwards (their drive failed). So of course as soon as I heard there were problems, I deliberately delayed deletion in order to not possibly have to re-do the work. They obviously do not realize the money I have saved them by doing this.
I will NOT sell the drive to them because it is my own drive and I wish to keep it. Besides, the songs are theirs, but the work in ripping them is mine. I wish to be paid for my work, not be paid for selling something they technically already own. Of course, when I get their final decision, I will immediately erase said songs, depending on what they wish to do.
I truly believe it's buyer's remorse and they now wish to get the work for free or next to nothing. As an aside, the computer store that sold them the computer way over sold. They told the store exactly what they wanted the machine for and they were sold a machine which is way over kill and has tons of stuff they will never use, like a gaming type vid card, massive amounts of Ram that they won't even come close to using, etc. They now realize the computer store has basically ripped them off.
The computer store has been paid and now they feel they have gone over budget and I am the one getting the brunt of it.
They can't really go back to their old system now since the new one is all hooked up and in place.
I did offer to knock $300 off the bill and I guess that's not good enough.
I will however, if they come around and pay up, be more than happy to reload their songs to their drive and then delete said songs off my drive. I have no need of them anyways, I have a much larger library of my own and simply do not have the room on my drive.

What was agreed upon was an hourly rate. They did witness how long it took to rip several CD's, around 5 or so, so they were WELL aware of how long this could possibly take.
BTW someone responded that I ripped 900 discs. I did not. It was 200-300 or so.
Unfortunately, I don't know the brand of drive that failed, but as an aside, the computer store that sold it to them refused to honor the warranty because of the "environment" it was in. Go figure.

The experience your client had with the computer store is extraneous to this posting; the discussion in this thread needs to focus on the disagreement you are having with your client.  It is becoming clearer, as I read on that, the client has a disagreement with you over what you have charged them for providing them with some package of services, inclusive of the CDG's you ripped for them.  So I now ask, is their a dispute regarding the entire billing or is there soley a dispute over what you have charged them for ripping CDGs?  

If they are disputing the entire bill, IMHO you should erase your drive, immediately.  Why? Your backup copy was probably unnecessary and improper from the getgo.  Even if its existence could be justified during the work in progress stage, it shouldn't have existed once the task was completed.  But most important is the fact that its very existence puts you in the position to leverage the results you desire when negotiating your bill with the client.  That backup drive then becomes IMHO both illegal and unethical.  And here's why I say that:  In the accounting profession, accountants often get into disputes with clients over billing and often lose the account as a result.  It is unethical to hold the client's records as ransom in order to get paid; the records must be returned.

And you, in effect, from some perspectives have in your possession, though altered, your client's records.  And the work an accountant does for a client also alters their books of records.  Nonetheless, those records must be returned with whatever unpaid for work was completed by the accountant when there is a billing dispute.  And while you agree that you do not own those files, I am not suggesting you have to give the client the ripped files either.  They were already provided a copy of that work!

Now, if the dispute is solely over the ripped CDG's and the client engages or re-engages you to complete the ripping work, I don't see that there's anything wrong in using his ripped files that you already have in your possesion!

Again, I recommend you sell your drive to your client in order to save you the additional time it would take to transfer the material to your client's drives  If you charge them accordingly, you will be able to replace your old drive with a brand new one!

PS  It may just be me, but I an troubled by the following, which I can't make "heads or tails" over.  Maybe that's why it troubles me?  And the last sentence below is the one that I find most troubling/confusing!

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The ripping of the CDG's is what is at issue. I was paid for my work in setting up the system the day that I did it.
As for selling them my drive, not a chance!
First off, my drive is far more expensive than they are willing to pay and it would only create MORE work for me to back up all the other things I have on it. At this point, I am loathe to spend yet more time on this job. This was not nor will ever be a Karaoke drive. It is my personal drive that I used to make to job easier.
As it stands, I just found out that they are not willing to pay.
I have been advised by the son of one of the owners to keep the files for the next week in case they change their minds. If they don't I will call them giving them one last chance and then I will wipe the data.

Actually, this whole thread was supposed to be about HOW LONG IT TOOK YOU TO RIP YOUR CDG's, not about my experience with the bar nor an in-depth attack on me and the legality/illegality of the whole issue. I am in Canada and the laws here are vastly different regarding this whole subject.
Thanks for your input, though.
Cheers.

I don't believe I made any attack upon you; but apologize if you feel so.

I responded to what I thought was the more basic question:  
I thought your question was if your charge to your client is justified, and if so, what could you do to get paid.

It was you who offered all of the other data, after you made your initial posting.  IF all your required was the labor involved in ripping, all you needed to do is limit your discussion to the mechanics of what others having experienced in performing the same task, perhaps with different software and different quality (newness) cd's.  

Perhaps?

And while perhaps the laws in Canada are different in regarding to returning materials to clients, ethics are ethics

The more basic question was, very clearly how long did it take to rip your discs. I mentioned why I wanted to know as an aside, nothing more, yet it seems to have turned into an attack on me and why I kept the files I wasn't legally supposed to have (according to others). Again, the laws in Canada are different regarding this and as I do not have them for my personal use, nor have I used them for my personal use, nor will I use them for my personal use, it is perfectly legal for me to have them.

I cannot for the life of me figure out how you thought that and wonder where on earth you got that idea from? I said nothing of the kind and did not ask any questions remotely close to that. I KNOW that what I charged was MORE than justified, in fact they were getting a deal! Again, what I said about the bar was as an aside, extra information only.


The comments quoted above made me feel like I was being attacked. The one below confirms it.

Funny how the bar doesn't have to have ethics in dealing with me and the work I did. It seems to me that you are saying that it's perfectly alright for the bar to stiff me and then you call me unethical!
I'm insulted.

1 minute per song, to rip.   Correcting the artist and song names in the data base is another story.   Polishing out the scratches to get a clean rip, another, another story.

Thanks so much Sidewinder, I appreciate it.

Looking back over what you said previously, quoted below, I have something to say about it.

These are hardly the possibly sensitive financial records of a business and comparing it to such is like comparing oranges to apples.
It makes no difference to them whether I have the files or not until they come to a decision.
I have the work that they want and refuse to pay me for.
The "leverage" as you put it, is simply that if they don't pay, they don't get the fruits of my labour. Not unlike many, many businesses.
I see no difference, ethically or otherwise to my refusal to give it to them without payment, than you wanting to have that brand new DVD player from the electronics store, but they won't give it to you until it's paid for. This is standard practice for most businesses out there and for you to tell me I am unethical for it is inane. The DVD store does not owe you that player without payment first, anymore than I owe them those files without payment for my work. You are out nothing if you don't pay. You just don't get what you want for free.
And you must be out of your mind to suggest that I owe them my hard drive for free!
If I delete the work, they don't pay and they are out nothing, except that in that case, they will have to spend many, many hours redoing my work, or pay me to do it again. In that case, I would charge double. Up front.
In answer to this:

It really is simple. They are not entitled to my personal hard drive just because it has some files on it which they may or may not be entitled to, and that point is debatable.
They would not be willing to pay the price that I paid for the drive (it was expensive) and they would not be willing to pay for the time it would take for me to back up my personal files off the drive before turning it over to them. They don't want to pay me for the work I have already done. What makes you think they would be willing to pay more? As far as immediately erasing the files depending on their decision? If they choose to pay me, I will keep the files until they are transferred to their disc, at which time they will be erased. If not, they get erased outright. They have, today, indicated they are not willing to pay. However, their son has asked me to hang on to the work for another week in case they change their mind once they see the amount of work they are in for. I will do that but no more.
The possibility remains that I may still get paid, but ONLY if I have the work.
It's actually called protecting my investment.

It's like a roofer or plumber that wants paid.

If you do the work you should get paid.   If the roofer does the roof and it leaks, should he be paid?    Or the plumbers pipe leaks after the job is done.   But the roofer can only stand behind his work.  If the product (shingles) fail is it his fault, if they were properly installed?    The plumber can't guarantee the toilet if it breaks on its own.  But if he tightened the bolts too tight and cracked it, he is at fault.

You put you time into the project.   If the hard drive failed you are not responsible unless it failed because you put a corrupt file possibly containing a virus on it.  Not saying you did just an example.   We all know the computers are subject to any number of unpredicatable failures.

You should be paid for your work and you could probably take it to court.  But that opens another can or proverbial worms.

If they didn't pay you the first time, do you really think they can be trusted to pay you the second time, which will really be the first time.

You have their drive and they have your money.  It's a classic Mexican standoff.   Hmmm.    Sound like a trade coming up to me.

Don't erase the backup drive.   Send it to me and i'll put it in my vault.    :whistle:  It's like the hospital that keeps your MRI or Xray or CAT scan.   Wait a minute those are pictures of me not you.   But you are just keeping them for me so they stay safe, right?   My insurance company paid for them.    So who is the technical owner of my films?  Me?  You?   Insurance Co?   The hospital has been paid for them so why can't i have them?

Here is the hard drive where is my money?    Sounds real simple to me.    NO MONEY, NO DRIVE...sorry it's just business.

Thank you Sidewinder. That's my point exactly. No money no work.
Why should they benefit from my work without paying for it?
BTW I KNOW for a fact that there was no virus.
I believe that the drive was dropped because it was stupidly left out and not put away after the show.
No proof, but I was told that the drive was found on the floor.
Anyway, my whole purpose of this thread was that I don't think they realize just how many hours it really does take. I think they believe that I am trying to rip them off on hours, hence this thread asking others how long it took them.
With this information I can bring back to them and prove to them (even though they know already) how long it really does take.