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Here's my  :2cents: Songs are as individual as the people that sing them. A singer may love to sing there favorite song which may be an unheard of selection in many KJ  libraries.  What I have found that is common in bars is GENRE of music  instead of particular song selection. One bar may be a COUNTRY type Bar another a ROCK /ALternative music  and some family type bars may cater to the LOUNGE LIZARDS doing Sinatra and the like. But you always have the singer who will sing a Hard Rock song in a Country bar and mail it and get GREAT applause --so you never ever know.  I agree you NEED a core SET with all the oldies standards country classic music ...just because you never know when someone will walk in expecting to sing that song.  But you can't HAVE everything.  I believe once a KJ gets settled in a Bar for a time - they can probably run their entire Karaoke Show on 300 songs and never get a complaint...The reason is that PEOPLE usually SING THE SAME SONGS EVERY WEEK. They might have a repatoire that they mix and match but usually its the SAME OLD SAME OLD

I couldn't agree more with a good core set.  When I first started I built my set around the chartbuster essential (pricewise the sound choice foundation was out of my reach) and then added to the set.   Even with a large selection I would have singers perform 10 or more songs a night out of that 450 song set. It's still one of my favorites.  I also agree about the DK set.  I have it now and it gives a solid base of music. While I find the melody flute annoying,  the songs are solid.  Since the year 2000 my big yearly purchase has been the chartbuster yearly hits.  Depending on the size of the set you can pick up a 200 country and pop songs from the last year.  I think that 100 country songs pretty well covers the hits for a year.  Anything missing can be filled.  Doing this I avoid filling up my song book with songs that will never be sung.

Looking at my last years purchase I also found the Dangerous set on sell and picked them up.  I was surprised,   they are pretty good and fill out my rock songs.   The downside of switching to a computer is that I can now easily listen to the same song by different labels.  Lonman I'm unhappy with you now.  You pointed out the weakness with backstage songs and I started listening.  Once happy with those discs I'm Now back purchasing songs I already have.  I just picked up the Hits of Neil Diamond on SC to replace my backstage disc.


Finally I agree that you need to know your audience,  but it's nice to be able to cover all song needs.  When I did shows in El Paso it was country and western.  When I moved to Dallas and had a gig at a VFW,  it was the older stuff that got a work out.  

I don't think you need a huge song set to be successful with this.   I keep my song books as small as possible.  I think song books in a four inch binder are bulky and distracting.

Carrie Underwood

Little Big Town

Sugarland

Here is new list  about a third  requested list

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For a few years now I have pruned to 13k.. When I buy a cd if the other songs do not show up in Bulletin Boards Charts I usually will not add them.

I really think a well rounded DJ library as far as obscure songs is more important.

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Out of these you listed I don't have nor have ever had a request for:
Apologize
U & Ur Hand
Girlfriend
No One

Have the other 3 & the ONLY one that gets done on occasion is Rehab.  This was one of those backfire discs, had 4 requests on it including Umbrella (NEVER been done).
I took note of a couple of different nights as far as what songs were sung (for another forum) & here is the result of both nights.

This was a weird Sat night about 3 weeks ago, not our typical regular crowd but still avg age was about 30, 59 songs done:
Runnin' Down A Dream - Tom Petty
Sara - Fleetwood Mac
Hold On Loosely - 38 Special
Why Not Me - Judds
Mellow Yellow - Donovan
Bless The Broken Road - Rascal Flatts
Hunger Strike - Temple Of The Dog
Hemorrage In My Hands - Fuel
Should've Been A Cowboy - Toby Keith
Happy Together - Turtles
Nothing Else Matters - Metallica
Baby Got Back - Sir Mix Alot
Son Of A Preacher Man - Dusty Springfield
She's In Love With The Boy - Trisha Yearwood
A Love Bizarre - Vanity 6
I Melt With You - Modern English
Come To Bed - Gretchen Wilson
VooDoo - Godsmack
I'd Rather Ride Around With You
Ice Ice Baby - Vanilla Ice
Painted On My Heart - The Cult
Way You Make Me Feel - Michael Jackson
Enter Sandman - Metallica
Seminole Wind - John Anderson
Addicted - Enrique Iglesias
Shine - Collective Soul
When You're Good To Mama - Queen Latifah
Spirit In The Sky - Norman Greenbaum
Every Little Step - Bobby Brown
Midnight In Montgomery - Alan Jackson
Killing Me Softly - Fugees
Paul Revere - Beastie Boys
Lady - Kenny Rogers
Goodbye Earl - Dixie Chicks
Alive - Pearl Jam
Copperhead Road - Steve Earl
Kerosene - Miranda Lambert
If You've Got Love - John Michael Montgomery
If You're Not In It For Love - Shania
Highwayman - Highwaymen
No Leaf Clover - Metallica
Hello Darlin' - Conway Twitty
Ramblin Gamblin Man - Bob Seger
Hotel California - Eagles
Should I Stay Or Should I Go - Clash
My Own Prison - Creed
I'm The Only One - Melissa Etheridge
Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You - Lauryn Hill
Kiss An Angel Good Morning - Charley Pride
Jeremy - Pearl Jam
Brown Eyed Girl - Van Morison
Masochism Tango - Tom Lehrer
Away From The Sun - 3 Doors Down
Tonight's The Night - Rod Stewart
Tequila Makes Her Clothes Fall Off - Joe Nichols
Redneck Woman - Gretchen Wilson
Pour Some Sugar On Me - Def Leppard
God Bless The USA - Lee Greenwood
Devil Went Down To Georgia - Charlie Daniels

This next night was more normal as far as music selection about 2 weeks ago on a Fri., 60 songs done:
Hurt So Good - John Cougar
Have You Ever Seen The Rain - CCR
Humpty Dance - Digital Undeground
Ramble On - Led Zeppelin
Would - Alice In Chains
Land Of Confusion - Disturbed
Stray Cat Strut - Stray Cats
Before He Cheats - Carrie Underwood
Hot Rod Lincoln - Commander Cody
Creep - Radiohead
Hotel California - Eagles
Twist & Shout - Beatles
No Excuses - Alice In Chains
I Want You To Want Me - Cheap Trick
Feel Like Makin Love - Bad Company
Don't Stop Believin - Journey
Sweet Dreams Are Made Of This - Eurythmics
Cowboys From Hell - Pantera
Play That Funky Music - Wild Cherry
Train Train - Blackfoot
Pour Some Sugar On Me - Def Leppard
And All That Jazz - Catherine Zeta Jones
Comfortably Numb - Pink Floyd
Don't Speak - No Doubt
Turn The Page - Bob Seger
Hell Is For Children - Pat Benetar
Good As Gone - Little Big Town
Pickup Man - Joe Diffie
Shadows Of The Night - Pat Benetar
Shoot To Thrill - AC/DC
Mustang Sally - Rascals
Mickey - Tony Basil
I Got You Babe - Sonny & Cher
Baby Got Back - Sir Mix Alot
Hurt - Johnny Cash
Black Velvet - Alannah Myles
Hell Bent For Leather - Judas Priest
Bless The Broken Road - Rascal Flatts
Whiskey In The Jarro - Metallica
Tonights The Night - Rod Stewart
Hey Jealousy - Gin Blossoms
Man I Feel Like A Woman - Shania Twain
Strawberry Wine - Deana Carter
Bad To The BOne - George Thorogood
Gimme 3 Steps - Lynyrd Skynyrd
Sister Christian - Night Ranger
Patience - Guns & Roses
And When I Die - Blood Sweat & Tears
Love Song - 311
Stuck In The Middle With You - Stealers Wheel
Folsom Prison Blues - Johnny Cash
Rainy Day Women - Bob Dylan
You May Be Right - Billy Joel
Enter Sandman - Metallica
Hip Hop Hooray - Naughty By Nature
Rock N Roll Highschool - Ramones
Grease Megamix
Dead Mans Party - Oingo Boingo
Walk - Pantera
Bring Me To Life - Evanescence

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This is a very hard thing to do, you want to stay current...but don't want to waste your $ on songs that will never get done.  I have every Thmc cd, when I purchased my business....they were big into country and had about 1/2 of the set and had been buying monthly for a while.  I went out and got the ones that were missing and I continue to get the new discs, monthly.  It IS a waste, honestly.  That is as far as I will go with having the newest stuff.  If I get a couple of requests for a certain song, I will try and go get that if it's on a disc I can use.  My biggest base is country and if it's NOT on thmc, then it's pry not worth having.  They do a pretty good job of getting the hottest stuff out.  There is however a lot of fill....MrD

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Lonman, must be a Washington thing...I checked out your lists and those are songs that most often get sung at my shows, as well...though right now I'm only doing one show in a small town so that is very different.

I have done something that has given those never sung songs a chance at being heard - I make compilation bumper music discs that will contain the newer stuff and believe it or not, after about 3 weeks or a month, hearing snippets of these new songs, somebody will actually try them...

We do have a hardcare rocker girl who comes in every Monday night to hubby's show and she has requested Jem, Paramore, Winehouse, Pink, Stefani, etc. and she sings them all. She is FABULOUS (think of that rocker girl on AI currently - Amanda?)  Hearing her sing those songs allows others to learn them and if she's not there, somebody will often try one of those artists.

For the really great vocalists that show up at my shows, sometimes I will actually create a CD for them with songs I think they could do well on and this has been a very successful way to get them to try new stuff.

Of course we know that people will sing the same songs every week - that's just the nature of the beast. I'm thinking for a kick one night I won't take slips from anyone, just create the list on the computer, and let 'er rip...

Tonight is first computer hoster night ... woohoo ... crossing fingers!

K

Good luck Karen! Here's hopin' she works this time.

Lonnie you have a nice diverse group. What are you using for Can't Take My Eyes Off You (Lauryn Hill version)? The SGB version I've got is a kind of busy arrangement with a messy low end, but know what the original is sort of that way too, but I could use a better one.

Also is there a version of Voodoo with an opening chord? There's only one singer I've got who can start this thing in key. The rest all need a little help.

I order a disc for just one song quite a bit. I just did for Cowboys From Hell because several guys have wanted it and they're all getting tired of doing Walk. This was before I discovered that British site BTW.

The other times I do it is for singers who I count on to keep the room focused on our style. This area is saturated with karaoke rooms.... there must be a half dozen within driving distance of mine... and we're trying to do it a little differently as an alternative (so far with pretty decent success. Last night was packed right up to 2:30 am and it was a Thursday).

I don't automatically order the monthlies but I do keep an eye on the charts, do a lot of listening (usually on Youtube these days because it has no commercials), download possible candidates for addition, listen to what my singers are saying, and even check out the local DJ room every few weeks to see what's hot there. It's just basically a matter or staying on top of things. But that's because I'm trying to weight  my room towards newer dancable stuff and I need to know what's up.

I've got some advice to new kjs....

we have a kj FORUM! ! USE IT!

Including THOSE of YOU that create KJ threads here.

Now you moderators... get back on the job! ((just kidding!))

I have the Franki Valli version listed as well, they chose the Lauryn version.



Sound Choice 8803.  



Ordering a disc for one song is fine, I have done it as well - as long as the rest (or majority of the rest of the disc are new songs to my catalog as well.  What was stated by SW that I disagree with is he would buy a disc for one song even if he already had every other song on the disc.  I will not purposely buy duplicates (songs I already have) of an entire disc to get 1 new song.
Well the rest of the disc with CFH is pretty good as well.  Ride On-AC/DC, Angry Again-Megadeth, No Leaf Clover-Metallica, Turbo Lover- Judas Priest get done fairly ragular here.



What's hot as a 'dance' song isn't always hot as a 'singing' song, be careful with that as well.

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Point #1
Most of your songs will never get sung.
Sad but true.

Even a modest library of 5000 songs will probably only have 20% sung at least once by the time 5000 songs have been sung at your show, if that. 5000 songs sung is a long time at 40 songs a night, 1 show a week that is about 2.5 years.

Sure that means you only needed the 1000, but which 1000? That is the hard question.

I bet the next 5000 songs sung may add only another 500 or so new songs that have been sung at least one time.

Even the above example may have to wait for about 15,000 or 20,000 songs to be sung at various shows until 2500 of the songs have been sung once.

My example above depends a lot on how diverse your crowd is. Certainly some places may even have fewer songs sung regularly and "new" songs can even be more rare.

A song may not feel too overplayed if it is only sung once every 10 shows, but at that rate only 400 songs are needed, and we all have songs that are played at half or more of our shows.

Point #2 Specialize...

Beatles, Bowie, The Smiths and Pulp almost always have at least one song a night sung by someone in my shows. Based on other comments, I know that the Beatles and Bowie are generally neglected at other shows, and I bet The Smiths and Pulp are totally absent in most. That said I am sure I never hear many of your regular songs.

My strategy has been to know the people who frequent my bar, I look at their Myspace accounts to see which bands they like, and then buy everything I can from those artists from places like tricerasoft or elsewhere. I found 20 people I knew that frequented the bar and had listed 10 or more favorite bands on their myspace, I tabulated the results and found which ones were selected independently by multiple people.

That means I went out and got every Bowie, Smashing Pumpkins, Muse, Placebo, Blondie, The Cure etc for about 50 different bands.

For many of the bands it was quite easy as only a very few songs have ever been made as karaoke by The Pixies or the Velvet Underground.

Sure I went out and got a few "Standards" such as starting out with a good foundation (Sound Choice Foundation I and II, SGB, Supercore and as many PHM disks as I could find in the discount bins).

Point #2
Talk to people at your show.

I have one regular who loves Dean Martin, and Sinatra something I would not have suspected, but he does the songs well and its great to keep him happy.

I also have a group of students from Germany who are semi-regulars at my show (often showing up as a group as big as a dozen). I knew they were mainly into 80s pop music based on what they sang in English. I went out and bought 4 disks worth of German new wave music (In German) and they are getting sung.

My main problem is that sometimes it can be hard to explain to someone that a song is just not made as karaoke. Especially if you remove vocals from some songs. That only works sometimes, and all too often you will have to tell them that No, there is no way to obtain a request.


As for requests yes 50% dont get sung in the first month or so.

Often the requests are from people who want someone else to sing the song, not them.

But with 50% not getting sung that still makes them FAR better than the average NON-Request song, where the chance of a non play is about 95% in the first month or two. The way I look at that, since you are in the business of getting songs sung, a request that will cost you $5 and have a 50% chance of being sung is as good as  10 songs at $1 each that combined only have a 50% chance of being sung.

As for top hits, it only works if you have a "generic" crowd. Most crowds (and people) are not generic, espcecially in a town where there are many different choices of Karaoke.

After reading all of the above i'm still confused now as to which course to go on.   Keep buying the monthlys or just buy requests.

If you just buy requests your book will become somewhat out dated.    Because you are not keeping as current.    People notice this fact.    I have heard complaints about KJs that haven't updated in 5 years.   Pretty bad statement about your business.   And you are missing songs that people may want to sing if you have them.   It just takes seeing the song title to jog their memory.   Only taking requests is a slow process.   I usually wait to get the free shipping from karaoke companies.

And then if you just take requests you end up buying the discs you would have bought if you would have just kept buying the monthly anyway.   People still want to sing the new songs.

They go nuts when you show them a new update.  And then they hand it back and say well there is a song i want to try someday.  Or they say there is nothing there they want to sing.     You just handed them 400 songs.    Now granted some are dupes, but still.

If people are steadily singing the new monthlies, then you should keep buying them.  I quit doing it years ago because that is not what people wanted in our shows & I found that out that hard way.  Used to buy just to have it first, only to find nothing got done or if it did get done, very low plays.  



I you just buy requests then the book won't be outdated at all.  Don't understand.  The books are being updated with new music - maybe not current music.  I have heard complaints about kj's that have not updated (ie purchase anything new - not necessarily current, but stuff they don't have) in about 5 years.  And if you are getting requests for current music, then that's what you get.  Also if you still buy discs, then when you buy a current disc for a request, there is still current music on that disc making it appear that you are still 'current' with your books.  I haven't bought a 'current' disc in a few years & never get complaints that my book isn't current.  Usually about a year goes by before I may get something that may be popular now (unless of course I get a bunch of requests ofr it WHILE it is popular, which I generally don't).  But I am buying new discs all the time - new as in stuff that I don't have that people request.
Most companies will do free shipping with a $100 order, I just wait to do a buy to make a $100 order.



But if the requests don't come on or aren't available on the monthlies then they would be a waste.  But this is completely club/location/genre/age group dependant.  My NEW songs that were requested are typically from the 70's-90's rock & then country from old to current.  Newer rock/pop requests are very little as opposed to the older rock requests I get.  So the monthlies wouldn't do me one bit of good as they haven't in the past when I used to buy them every month.  
Buying by requests can give a stronger indication of what might have a little more longevity to the singers, than just a typically monthly 'flavor of the week' that won't get touched again after a month or two.



Exactly, because there was nothing that they may have requested.  When I hand a page of new songs in the book - they go nuts, get excited, because it's typically full of our singers requests & they get done more often than not.

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Unless you have a ton of money I wouldn't suggest buying monthlies blindly just to try to stay current. I try to stress new music but only buy them if that's the only way to get a specific song. I bought maybe 10-12 last year but should have bought maybe half that if I'd been a little smarter about it.

Sometimes you get spun by your own group. I remember when "Rockstar" (Nickelback) first hit. Three singers were after me to get it. It's widely available now but then it was only available on a monthly. So I bought the thing with nothing else usable on it, and they each sang it once! And it hasn't been sung since!!! But now because of my compilations I've got multiple versions of it just waiting....

Sidewinder I know you are hosting to a different age group than I am but if you just wanted to cover the bases my suggestion would be the CB yearly compilations or Big Hitz. Big Hitz in particular are great overviews of each year. Whoever is selecting for that label really knows their stuff when it comes to picking current material that's needed in karaoke rooms. Each disc is basically the top songs sung in my room for that year... even though I've already got most of them in other places I buy them on Big Hitz anyway just to have them in one place. And they're good renditions... often the best of each song. It's uncanny... they must be out there in the trenches doing this themselves. I get the country ones too... I put modern country in my main books.

Yeah I know what you're saying. And I have made mistakes before buying stuff that didn't get used. Nowadays I try to imagine someone doing it on a karaoke stage and if I can't that's that.

But sometimes dance and singing intersect. "Don't Matter" (Akon) a recent example. I sing it myself sometimes if no one has done it in awhile. Fun to sing and always gets some dance action. "Yeah" (Usher). Probably the toughest song I've ever had to sing. In bands or otherwise. It is so high. And the rhythms are so precise. But it still packs the floor... a real modern classic.

All the recent songs I listed that were sung by the room last night are at their heart...  songs. Our room does some rap and hiphop... maybe a little more than most rooms...  but it's still mostly what karaoke always has been. A place for singers.

I thought I was being smart waiting until early 2008 to get about 300 tracks categorized as the "Best of 2007".  

That strategy didn't work.  I put all of the new tracks in separate binders/folders.  As as result of being in separate binders, I could see how much interest the new material generated.   Most people ignored the new listing. Of those who did take a look, about 95% glanced at the new tracks and went back to the main book.

I am not a big fan of book supplements, myself. I encourage people to ask me for a song if they don't see it in the book, because depending where I am I can actually get it for them right then and there so they can do it before the night is over. Also, I can get a reading on what people are wanting to sing that they don't see in the book, so it helps me understand what they are thinking.

The first in the Can't Stop The Hip-Hop series gets a lot of use in my room. Gin and Juice and Insane In The Brain are the top two, but OPP and G Thang also get action.

And it probably is a room specific thing. I've only been doing this seriously in one room and my selection is totally based on what they've been  asking  for because I didn't have much before. For those doing this all over the place it's probably a completely different thing. In my case my list is so specific to this room that I'd be sunk.

Thanks for the tip on Voodoo. I checked the price on my usual site... $26.95. It's going to have to wait...maybe it will get in the $17 range sometime like other SC discs. But I'll look at other retailers too.

You won't regret getting Big Girls Don't Cry. It's a beautiful song in the traditional sense  with a soaring chorus and words that women really relate to. It was in instant hit in my room as soon as I got it. Your singers just haven't caught up with it yet, but they will. I believe will be a karaoke classic from this decade as time goes on.

We get it all the time too, from multiple singers.