Karaoke Forums

Do you all think it is illegal to make your own karaoke music using some of the programs available to do a vocal eliminator and make your own graphics file.  I am a big Gary Allan fan. As you might know, not alot of selection for GA karaoke.  I have made a few, but have never put them in my books.  On occation, I sing some of these myself, but can I offer them to my singers, without ending up in an orange jumpsuit and flip-flops?  If you believe this to be illegal, would you cite where you found such information.  Thanks in advance.

It probably isn't legal, but I find it unlikely in the extreme that you would run into legal trouble as long as you don't distribute the tracks.

We have a bar owner who just brought his karaoke in house, and he is paranoid about playing disks from patrons. I told him that since he pays ASCAP and BMI, he is not at all likely to have trouble. We will see -- their current selection is so poor in quality we probably won't go back often. (We used to go just about every week.)

 Not legal

What you are describing is illegal. The information is all over this forum and many other Karaoke forums. Just look under the topic threads dealing with converting to PC or harddrives, or even the topics dealing with lowballers/undercutters. In each of these threads, it has been mentioned about the legalities of copying/burning/reformatting CDGs. You need to have the permissions from those who own the Synch rights (just for the graphics) and all of the other copyrights to the music (such as the Artist, the publishers/producers, and of course, ASCAP, BMI, etc...).

I find it funny that some people are against hosting with a computer.  This sort of thing hasn't been tried in court, so it is not technically illegal.  No judge has ruled on it.  If karaoke from a PC is illegal, so is ripping regular CD's to DJ is too.  I don't know about you, but I will NEVER carry my CD coffin again.  

I am so sick of Sound Choice brain-washing people.  BC is no more a lawyer than I am.  His opinion is well-known, but until a judge renders his/her OPINION, SC's doesn't matter.

I am not talking about selling the tracks.  I only want to play them.  I understand that selling the tracks is illegal.

It is interesting to me as well that there has not to date, at least to my knowledge, actually been a prosecution of any type for this (other than the obvious one from several years ago, the free file sharing lawsuit). I truly believe the chances of this EVER making it to court to set precedent and thus begin the prosection of the literally thousands of people who are making money off supposed 'illegal' downloads, karaoke or otherwise, is SO slim.

I'm thinking you're pretty safe doing them for your own use - I sure wouldn't duplicate them and hand them out liberally to others who may use them somewhere else, but that isn't your goal as far as I can see.

The legal/illegal argument has been floating for years and with all the pirates around, and actual records available from the woman who was busted for selling preloaded harddrives through E-bay, you'd think if it was going to happen it would have happened already.

I do NOT condone piracy - believe me, I've earned every single penny I make through major investment in my business ... but there is a certain degree of paranoia that is probably not warranted.   For a fact, I can set up a show anywhere at any time and know that I am legal - that provides a lot of satisfaction in the end.

K

Now that's an asinine statement.  IT IS illegal until such a time a judge rules copying to another media for commercial use is ok or the government changes the copyright laws to allow it.  Further, a judge isn't going to hear a case until the defendant pleads not guilty and the case goes to trial.  In most cases the defendant will plead guilty (criminal) or settle out of court (civil).

In Canada a DJ can format shift if they pay their AVLA fees but it does not apply to CDGs due to the sync rights.

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Timberlea,
Call it asinine if you want, but without case law, there is no way you can tell me that it is illegal to place the legally purchased cdg's on my hard drive system.  Soundchoice has poisoned the water with this topic.  They are greedy and by brainwashing everyone into believing that that practice is illegal, SC has set themselves up to be on the wrong side of history.  

I am retiring from KJ'ing in December and will retire my system to my rec room and enjoy it with my friends on the weekends, so this probably won't affect me at all.  But, when a judge decides that a one to one ratio of ripped songs is well within your rights, I'll come back on here and look forward to your apology for the asinine comment.  Then SC will also have to rethink their business practices and maybe produce a new song or two every year.

I have nothing to apologize for.  Read what I said.  It is illegal until such time as the governement changes it or a judge rules on it.  And if the law is ruled as being wrong then sobeit.   And you are assuming that a judge will strike it down and we all know what the word assume means.  

Further where do you get that a law is wrong and should be broken just because a judge hasn't ruled on it?  Or that it is technically legal until there's a ruling on it?

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Why is it that Bush is hunting down Bin Laden?  Quite obviously no-one had flown a commercial jet into the Trade Towers before, and no Judge had ruled it was illegal to do so.   I guess that means it was legal to do so!

Unless you are making several copies distributing and selling nobody is going to give a damn.

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Are you serious?  hijacking a plane is illegal, murdering 3,000+ people is certainly illegal.  

Let's see, ripping songs to a hard drive - murdering 3,000 people.  Where in the world did you come up with that comparison?  

I can't believe that anyone would try to compare the two...shame on you.

More to the point... shame on you!  To ask an opinion of members in these forums and then request they apologise for giving their opinion is rather hypocritical  You are trying to use the excuse of there being no case law to determine if something is legal or not.  My statement was put merely as a tongue-in-cheek response to illustrate how ridiculous that argument is.  



I would say that the "Fair Use" doctrine would probably allow you to make one copy for your own personal use.  Using that copy to enhance your KJ business by making it available to your singers would, in my opinion be a breach of copyright.  Hey, but there's no case-law so you might as well go ahead and do it, 'cause you obviously know what is legal and what is not.  It's your business and your neck... you make the decision, you face the consequences of that desicion.  If you don't have the legal knowledge to make that decision for yourself, then you should ask someone who is qualified to give that information.  I don't think these forums are the place to ask for legal advice pertaining to your business... try a lawyer!

My name is Ollie I am a KJ I have 123 illegal downloads on my HDD ...

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Is that all?  I have nearly 20GB of mp3s on my player... of course these are all illegal due to the fact that I ripped them from my collection of legally owned CDs.  I only use them for my own personal use, never commercial... but they are illegal because I "format shifted" them without asking permission from the copyright holder! :wave:

I don't need some judge to create case law for me to let me know they are illegal.  I  already know they are, 'cause I read it in the copyright law!  :worship:

My name is Ollie I am a KJ I have 23 illegal downloads on my HDD If you woluld like to join KJ  Anonymous please tick link

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First off, who mentioned BC??? I know that I didn't, and I was the first one to reply to you with an explanation of why it is illegal and what you need to do. Your reply (above) came right on the heels of my reply.

Secondly, you asked a question. We gave you an answer. If you want to copy everything to your Hard Drive, then do so! Obviously, you realize that something isn't 100 percent right here, or you wouldn't have even bothered to ask in the first place.


As for creating your own CDG by using a vocal eliminator and using some hosting program to create your own graphics, well, this goes beyond the Fair Use Laws. What makes you stand out above all of the Karaoke Manufacturers out there, that you can arbitrarily decide to create your own personal CDG without first obtaining the proper rights and permissions from those that own the music in the first place???!!! Personal use or not, you are taking something that isn't yours. and reformatting it. All that you own is the physical CD/CDG that you purchased... nothing more, nothing less. By purchasing the item, you have made an implied agreement with the manufacturer to use it in the format it was created. What makes you think you're so special that you can/will do whatever you want with it????!!! Granted, nobody is going to come to your house and start searching for those discs, but you also asked if you could let your singers (at a show) borrow the same disc/s and sing from it/them. TO MY UNDERSTANDING, that is no longer under your umbrella of Fair Use when you make a copy of something and use it publicly. You are now in a Public Venue, and that disc is being used for a Public Performance. Read up on Fair Use Laws.


Keep in mind, just because we don't have any case precendence (sp?) on this, doesn't make it any less illegal. As suggested, we are NOT lawyers here. If you want to know what's legal and what isn't, consult a lawyer who specializes in Contract and Copyright Law.

On a side note (and to be a little bit comical), Tim asked you a question about your assumptions that just because a Law hasn't been ruled on (and yes, these questions you posed all have to do with Ownership and Copyright LAWS), what makes you think it's legal?... well, check out these laws and tell me when was the last time someone was arrested for any of these.... www.dumblaws.com (yes! they are REAL!!!).

, just love that law that says "boogers may not be flicked into the wind"!  That cracks me up  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO

As for the "it is illegal to drive barefoot"... well HELLO!  :wave: Guilty!  LOL  LMAO

Here it is illegal to drive with spurs on.. We dont have cell phones yet..

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I reckon the ASCAP/BMI should go after all those hoons who drive around in their cars with their stereos cranked up to the max...  I bet they don't pay any licence fees for their public performance!