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One freeloader in a crowded bar means one less paying customer. And when he is also a singer your rotation is one song longer.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

My ideas, opinions, comments, experiences and suggestions are just as valid as everyone else and there is no need to flip out over them.    There is more than one side to an issue.   People can agree or disagree as much as they want.  

The point is that some people will be turned off by the idea of a drink charge and will think of it as a cover charge for karaoke.  I have never been to a bar that charged a cover for karaoke and i probably would never go to one that did.   I'm sure one or two people may just feel the same way i do.

And at $5 you still need a ton of people to come through the door.

Bands will work for the cover if they know they can get 300 people to show up.  It's a little different for karaoke.

Any knucklehead bar owner that wants to give free refills away when there is entertainment (that they have to pay to be there) of any kind is pretty stupid.  Then they complain to the KJ that they can't make any money.    That's the most asinine statement i've ever heard.

They don't need a drink token fee, they just need to operate their business for "profit."   And quit acting stupid.

There are no FREE refills during entertainment.  That's how you make money.   Do you get free popcorn and candy during the movie?    If they give away anything free, it should be the saltiest snack they can find and charge more for the drinks.


Do any of you realize that this hurts the way you and your business is viewed?  

Your preceieved reputation is on the line.   They way they look at you is by the bottom line on the cash register at the end of the night.   NOTHING ELSE.    MONEY TALKS.    If it's low they will assume (wrongly) that you (nobody else) are not good at your job.   They aren't smart enough to say it's their own fault.     They will start to look for another KJ or something else to take your place that in their mind, will build up the bottom line.  Well if they continue to give away free refills during the "show" they will never increase the bottom line with any kind of entertainment.  

If you and your business reputation can afford to take a negative (Publicity) hit,  then stay there and work.   If it can't move on to a different bar that doesn't give free refills.

They will tell everyone (including the new KJ) when you get replaced that you couldn't draw enough (money) of a crowd.   Is that true?   Do you want that said about you?   It's coming whether you like it or not.    Me...i'd move on to greener pastures.

Yes they are but when EVERY idea is presented you shoot down without as much as a HINT of possibility.  You simply state it won't work, well maybe in your mind, but I have seen it in action & it has in fact worked.



The people that don't spend will percieve it as a cover charge - the FREELOADERS.  The ones that spend will use it as $5 towards their tab & not think a thing about it!  The token is applied to the tab.  If you don't plan on spending anything, the bar don't want you anyway.  You aren't losing anything!



Yeah if they don't plan to spend anything yes this statement would be true, but most people go to a bar to drink so it wouldn't matter now would it?



Well being i've played in bands for years, sometimes bands even work for less.  I've seen some bands work for $20 just to get exposure.  The better bands get flat rates per night.



Probably the only intelligent thing i've ever heard you state!



Nope free refills in certain situations only as I mentioned earlier, but not for the general crowd the entire night.



Well then I guess it would depend on whether the new kj draws a crowd or not.

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I will say one thing.....

Where I come from (NY), Bars give "Buy-Backs" all of the time (not just on Karaoke nights or Band nights). The format varies.... Some Bars give you a Buy-Back after you have paid for your 3rd drink (and I don't mean you going up and buying a round of 4 or 5 drinks for your friends at the table... I mean your specific drink throughout the night), some give you a Buy-Back after your 2nd drink. Now, if it's a Restaurant (that serves drinks), they usually don't give Buy-Backs at all.  


Now, I have been to a few bars that got slick on a Karaoke night, where they have raised the price of the drinks by 50 cents to 1 dollar. If it's a bar that I don't frequent on other nights, and I feel thaty the drinks are overpriced, I won't be going back there much, or, if I do, I will be drinking a lot less in the night.  There was one bar that wasn't giving Buy-Backs. I went there 2 weeks in a row, and had about 6 drinks both times (and never got a Buy-Buck... btw, I usually TIP $1 per drink (even if it's just a glass of water later in the night)). Some of us mentioned it to the KJ (the KJ was a friend of ours, and we were there to support her show). I had found out (from other people in the Bar) that they did give Buy-Backs, but they decided NOT to give Buy-Backs during the Karaoke Show. I told the KJ that I wasn't planning on coming back because of that (so did several others). Well, the KJ called us up the next week and told us that she had spoken with the Management, and that Management was going to lift that restraint on the Buy-Backs. What they did was handed out tokens everytime you bought a drink. When you had 3 tokens, they gave you a Buy-Back.... Oh.... Here's the catch.... They also raised the price of their drinks buy 1 Dollar (just during the Karaoke show). After that night, I NEVER went back.

In my room drinks go up 50c when I start karaoke. But they start out 25c cheaper than the bars downtown, so now they're on average 25c higher.

No one is complaining. They didn't start doing this right away, only after karaoke in the room got established. When the price hike went into effect I was concerned. To my surprise, when I asked people about it they weren't even aware! Most of the place is running tabs and paying with plastic.

I checked with the bar and I was wrong. They still serve pop and ice water by the glass when I'm on. There's no such thing as a free refill, but they do give out coffee and ice water to those who have been drinking all night.

There's a karaoke room close by, a very nice room, that closes at 11 on weeknights and midnight on weekends. The owner said that it's set up that way to discourage "that" crowd. Well. "that" crowd is the crowd that spends money in bars!

They're hurting. But it's their business decision that's hurting them, not their KJ. A big reason that we attract drinking singers in our place is because we're going all the way to 2:30.

I get some of their singers after they close sometimes. They are a very light spending bunch. That's what their room draws because that's the way the owners have set it up.

They go into rotation at my discretion which is sometimes not at all. I have my own room to look out for.

There is nothing wrong with raising the drink prices if the bar is providing paid entertainment.    That's good business sense.    Nothing is free.   Why shouldn't the audience pay for this entertainment?   Who else is it for?    Not the bartenders and waitstaff.    It's no different than buying a movie or concert ticket.   That's how the entertainer gets paid.   Everyone needs paid.

As far as working in to the rotation another bars crowd.   Everyone is a paying customer.  Why should they be treated any different because they came from another bar?    Treat them right and they may become your regulars.    Every person that walks through the door is a potential regular.

Well OK here's the deal on that one. When that room closes, that's when my place is the busiest. Now I always put them up. But if I've already got a rotation an hour out, my group is all going to get to sing first.

The home group deserves that. They are the ones that make my job possible and keep the doors open.

I do have the best singer from that bunch. She will still go over there sometimes until we get started, and I understand that because they start earlier. But she and her husband don't stay there until they close and come over during my peak - just because  she wants to get another song in at my place.

All great suggestions guys.  I like the pitcher of pop idea.  The $5 token may work too, but I also agree that some people would simply percieve it as a "cover charge."

Yeah, free refills is just stupid.  I'll make sure any bar I work at doesn't do this.  

The current bar in question has had karaoke for years with the most popular KJ around.  New management has taken over and they told me that they are in the red every weekend he gigs (fridays & saturdays).  I don't know how much he is being paid, as he is the "biggest" in town, but they are pretty much getting rid of him and bringing in bands on weekends.  I may end up doing karaoke on Thursdays there.  The biggest issue they cited with the karaoke now are the freeloaders getting free pop all night.  

Once again, I agree this is a management issue, not the kj's fault, cuz I've been going to this bar off and on for years with him there as the KJ and they are always busy with a rotation of about 20-30 singers.  How they can honestly be in the red is beyond me.  They must pay him quite a bit, but the company he works for advertises that they charge the going rate of $150.

When a Bar raises it's prices just because it's Karaoke night, I say, "See Ya!". I'm already paying for food (if they serve it) and Drink. Why should I pay more just because???!!! The Bar is bringing in the Karaoke entertainment in the hopes of bringing in more business. The Audience IS already paying for it by showing up and staying longer than they would have if there was nothing going on that night, because now they are having an extra drink or two (or more).

[/quote]When a Bar raises it's prices just because it's Karaoke night, I say, "See Ya!". I'm already paying for food (if they serve it) and Drink. Why should I pay more just because???!!! The Bar is bringing in the Karaoke entertainment in the hopes of bringing in more business. The Audience IS already paying for it by showing up and staying longer than they would have if there was nothing going on that night, because now they are having an extra drink or two (or more).[/quote]

Are you a KJ or a singer?   Yeah in bringing in more business doesn't mean it's free for them.   They have to pay for me to show up.  

25-50 cents more for a drink to offset the price of the "entertainment" is too much for you to pay?  That has been a normal operating practice for as long as i have been breathing.    If a band plays for the door and most bands are happy to do that, then the entertainment costs the bar nothing.  Do you complain about paying a cover charge for that?    But DJs & KJs don't charge at the door so the pay for them comes directly off the top of the bar owners profit sheet.   They pay me before they can buy food.    So tell me what is the difference between paying money to have the band play or a DJ or a KJ?   I am as much entertainment as the band.   Why do you think there is a differnce and it's not worth adding a little to the pot to offset the fee the bar has to pay?   Nobody has a gun to your head telling you to stay all night.  If you can't afford to stay and pay something toward the entertainment fee you are free to leave.    If the bar fails to remain profitable there will be no entertainment because there will be no bar.    How much profit did he make on your sandwich?    $5, $10...more than likely it wasn't a $1 on the entire meal.  After he paid the cook and the waitress and paid for the electricity and the gas and the water and sewer the food to cook and serve and the menus and napkins and placemats and the insurance and the KJ.    Thank God you ate that sandwich you saved the day.   They would have told the KJ to go home an hour early.

Do you work for free?   Bars normally have their food and drink prices set to make a profit on the food and drink.  In case you just came out of a deep sleep.  The profit margin in any business is a very small percentage.   Adding any kind of entertainment in to that mix without adding a liitle more to the drinks will cut into their profit level.    Let's talk Business 101.   If all the customers thought like you there would be no bars open for business.   Or they would never be able to afford any kind of entertainment.  Now add in the recession and the the high gas prices and you have less people spending less money.  Do you think the bar owner has no bills to pay and he is just there to provide free entertainment to you?   People that want everything for nothing ruin it for everybody else.   Now add in the people that come in and nurse one or two drinks all night and the ones that want to drink the free water and the ones that just drink a pop or two and tell me where all the profit money is?   They take a pounding on those people.   They are getting the same amount of entertainment as the guy (couple) that drops $50-100 or more.   But they took more from the profit pile, by not contributing their fair share.

It's why i have to pay more for car insurance because of the people that want to drive without it.    The price of the KJ has to be passed along.    Somehow, someone is paying for the entertainment.

The COST of ALL entertainment provided is usually factored in with drink and food prices from smart business owners, so upping the prices for karaoke isn't a sensible solution. However, it IS done by struggling businesses looking to make more money, but they should raise their prices EVERY NIGHT-not just on karaoke nights, to prevent p*ssing off customers.

For BANDs, naturally you cant' do that and must charge a cover unless they play for free or drinks. Most bands can't land regular gigs anymore- karaoke and djs took them due to cheaper labor and less headaches...but we all know this....

Customers do know, and DO care if ANY price goes up. Some will understand it, but the majority won't like it and will rebel against it, especially if they're not regular singers.

Keeping on thread topic, restaurants in my area stopped giving free-soda-refills because of the abusers. They do,however, give free glasses of ice-water.... not so smart imo...but these places make tons of money anyways. Our "beer specials" aren't so special- $4 bottles of coronas, $6 heinekens, $3 mai tai, and $3 pints of Sam Adams....not very special. The regular prices are ridiculous, but people frequent this place in droves because of its location, attractive staff, generous attention-giving managers, and i'd like to think... my karaoke show. ( A guy can fantasize right? )   ....7am- time to go to sleep now! J.R.

WHY should customers coming in for lunches and dinners on OFF nights (without entertainment) Be forced to pay for the nights they do have entertainment?   Just so you can have FREE entertainment.

Does not compute.    Why should a KJ or DJ be put into a seperate catagory as far as payment structure?    How are they any different.   I probably bring in (dollar wise) more in equipment and music than any band.    Why should only people that listen to a band be expexcted to pay for their entertainment and a karaoke singer should take a free ride?   Entertainment is entertainment and someone has to pay for it.    Bars can not be expected to take a lose so someone can sing free.

Nobody complains about spending $100 on concert tickets or Hockey games.   Those people play for free right?   What about the $7 beers there?  (600 percent increase)  You are paying a ridiculous price for that entertainment without so much as a peep.   And you want to BYTCH about a lousy 25 cent increase to cover a KJ?    LMAO  LMAO  LMAO

Somebody's priorities are screwed up.

Raising prices for karaoke doesn't bother me any as a singer. I want it to be there, and am happy to pay for it.

I did the VFW for years. many friends and customers there. Bottled beer there is $2.. Where I am now now they sometimes come in bottled beer here is $2.75. They go to  the V most nights.

Making blanket statements about what bars should do or not do shows inexperience and lack of knowledge A successful business owner knows what the competition is doing and what they are charging. A large disparity in price cause people to spend the first 3 hours in the cheap bar then come in yours drunk and demand to sing.

The bar business is very competitive esp  in small bars where they dont get a high quantity discount from distributors. They dont have the volume of large clubs still must pay the help and overhead rent etc.

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AMEN! I agree..... I'd happily pay a quarter or two extra for a drink to be able to do what I love the most!

besides..... I wouldn't even notice if the raised the prices by that much.

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Most bars are not big enough to have bands and they only get busy if there is a DJ or a KJ.    I play places that are dead on the nights i'm not there.  So how are they making money the rest of the week?    If it wasn't for the karaoke night many would be very close to closing up.

1st - giving FREE refills for soda or any beverage in a BAR is CRAZY.
I understand some people not drinking alcohol thats fine and needed with some people.  But a BAR or any business can have someone hanging around taking up space for $2 a night ....that is insane.

It should not be the KJ responsibility to monitor
The BAR staff or waitress should identify someone who is nursing 1 soda for an hour and act accordingly.

It's in a KJ best interest to have singers and customers who SPEND MONEY.
DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ALCOHOL but business is business and singers who spend only $5 a night are more of a liability than an asset.  ( meant not to offend anyone)

The VFW and other "clubs" like the ELKS and so on -- There really not in it to make TONS of money are they ????   I'm not sure they look at BUSINESS the same as someone who OWNS the place and is paying a mortgage

We have utilities to pay, we like to pay the help,  and have to adhere to state and local laws just like everybody else. We share the same problems as small bars.The VFW sponsers local youth projects, represent the very heart of our community and STAND PROUD. This is not a business with us this is our life. Whats left of it!!

I am simply trying to share some knowledge of bar problems. Please dont insult me. Now lets have a beer, first one on me

BTW I have bartended in and managed other bars..

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