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Because good wait staff are good for business, and good wait staff go where the tips are good.

Precisely - good wait staff can increase the final tape by 20-30% by smart serving. Shot specials do the same...>Appropriate comps do the same... I've seen it in action for 3 years at our Mon night gig.

K

I can give you 30 examples of how a bad bartender can kill business.  From not serving fast enough and by giving away drinks, (not talking about free water) these both cost the bar owner lots of money and hurt me in the process.

Leaving a tip of any size still doesn't help the bar owner, if the staff doesn't earn the tip.

I've have observed every aspect of this debate being hashed and rehashed; framed and reframed, over and over again.  Many of us, it seems, are determined to excuse karaoke singers who spend little if any money on food or drink and then blame everyone else if the show is not profitable for the venue.  

I look at this issue from one perspective only - from the viewpoint of the venue that has found Karaoke to be a marginal endeavor.  Why would I suggest taking such a view of this debate?  Because not every venue is making a lot of money from karaoke.   And in South Florida I encounter this reality all too often.  

So, now I ask you to put yourself in this situation, which reflects an amalgam of what my friends in the business have experienced :  The owner of the venue comes to you after 6 weeks of doing your show at his place.  He says to you, "I can't keep paying you what you require.  Some nights I take in $750 and that somewhat works for me.  But other nights I have too many people taking up space and they're not spending, not even on finger-food from my fabulous menu!  So, on some nights I have only taken in $600, in spite of the size of the crowd!  Tonight was terrrible, the worst!  I only took in $575.  I'm sorry, but I can only pay you $125 instead of the $175 you require. I definitely have to reconsider having Karaoke!""  

(the following is completely hypothetical)
"Oh, by the way.  It was an amazing night for the waitress!   She told me she made $125 in tips!!!   That's about what I made after I cover all of my costs!  Maybe I should give up the risks and headaches of owning this place?  

Again, that IS the bars fault for allowing people to be in there without spending.  Try making a page for all your books stating -, it does cost to ALLOW you the privelidge to sing here.  Coffee/Soda/Water does not help to continue the privelidge.  Please order a drink - if you do not drink, maybe a virgin drink or food (if available).  If your favorite karaoke club does not make any money, they will not continue the service FOR YOU!

I have this printed in all the books & on the walls by my station.  The bar will charge for every drink - only exception may be a designated driver amongst a table of spenders.  If the bar you are speaking of is not making money because of people not spending, then it's their perogotive to ask them to leave or charge for all.

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AH,,,, Now let's all go back to the original post and actually respond to Purple's question instead of minimizing it!!!

PS:  In the front of my song catalog, as Lonman suggested, I have a statement about the importance of spending money along with the "rules"

PPS:  When I last discussed this topic at length on this forum (about a year ago to the day) the majority of contributors indicated that non-spenders are not a significant problem to any venue because of one or several of the foregoing:
    -  they venue is making plenty of money anyway
    -  they come with people who do spend money
    -  they're so likeable and are asked to come back
    -  they're good singers and are found to be entertaining to all in attendance
    -  they're designated drivers
    -  they don't drink alcoholic beverages (do they eat?)

*Please note that those offering the above excuses put forth each as if it is a universal, undeniable truth for every venue and every set of circumstances.  

As to Purple's question.   You may want to consider providing an "introductory rate" for the first 4-6 weeks (or some other short, but defined period) so that the owner can see if the karaoke will work for him.

There are some good suggestions on this thread that you might want to share with owners who are doubtful about trying karaoke again.  Most important, don't debate the issue or assign blame regarding the non-spenders.  Be positive about the potential you can provide and make the owner confident that you will work with him/her and produce a profitable arrangement for the venue.

I actually talked to the owner of my fav karaoke bar before he changed his policy.  See I was a soda drinker.... And one day he confronted me with it.  He and I are pretty good friends so I wasn't TOO offended .  I explained to him my reasons for never drinking alcohol ( I have 15 alcoholics in my family so I avoid it like the plague).  He was very understanding, and I told him I'd have no problem paying for my refills, he just needed to charge for them.  So he did and I haven't heard of any problems since and this was about 3 years ago.  Sometimes the simplest answer is the best one... charge for refills.

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[scroll][glow=darkorchid]~I'm the girl your mother warned you about~[/scroll][/glow]

What if you went with a tour to a casino and you were told you could not stay unless you put so much money into and played the machines? What if you went into a hotel bar and were told you could get no service you because you werent a guest.?

If your bar isnt making it I'm sorry but if your bar is that dead whereas coke drinkers (we dont have very many here) are eating into the profits then I would consider getting another gig. I personally will not commit to a bar unless it has potential.  My singers do not come to my gigs  to get drunk they come in because I have a good system and to sing. The audience are the ones that drink and get high. Now if you want to continue with these attitudes and put up with drunks singing then go ahead. Personally I got tired of it. Now if they have bums hanging around that is staffs problem not ours but leave my singers alone. If you start harassing them we have a problem. This is how I run my show and I am tired of folks here telling me what the hell my singers can or cant drink or what they have to spend.. Period........ Your failures do not pertain to my venues.

BTW we hardly ever have over 15 singers because I run all the drunks off. And we are packing out on a regular basis. I have sang in many bars if somebody told me I had to drink or pay for coke refills or pay for coffee I would laugh and never go back. Karaoke is no longer a bunch of drunks trying to sing but from the comments made on this forum there are even hosts that cling to the old ways and ways of thinking and will sit here and adamantly argue that their way is the only way. Every business is in a constant change as the public demands. Of course karaoke according to inexperienced here is not a business it has to have special rules and is subject to the most constrictive copyright laws which were written to prevent those from copying and distributing copyrighted material for a monetary gain. And then these radicals even foolishly confuse these laws  with public performance fees which are another drop in the bucket with a successful business. Who was  that older gal that posted about wanting to come out to Colorado? I just made 3 lbs of fresh made home  seasoned sausage and cut a steak into small portions, put in ziplocks and froze. You can help me put my grinder back together see pic.

Well I have to sign off now, but from the old cowboy in Colorado I wish you all a good weekend and if you run into too many coke drinkers hitem over the head with a Bud Light bottle. If you are approached by a panhandler or homeless vet run like hell. They might want to come in and sing on your system and might even want to  sit on a bar stool.  We did have a homeless coming to our show at one time. We bought him food and cokes for awhile and then he got back on his feet, got a job and participated in our show for 4 years. If anyone here told him he had to drink or buy so many cokes the whole bar including staff and the owner would have asked you to leave.
Later Have a Good One!!!

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The casinos up here will question your intentions if you are just sitting around, not playing nor spending.  If you are waiting for someone who is still playing, they are ok with it.  If you are just sitting, they will generally ask you to leave.



Been to hotels that you couldn't use their services unless you are a guest or with a guest of the hotel.



No one here is telling YOU how to run YOUR show.  They are suggesting that if the bar is complaining about people drinking soda & water all night on free refills then the bar should charge for said refills & quit whining about it.  Most of the clubs I frequent you couldn't get a refill for free on any drink.  You & your system may be a part of what attracts people, but if the bar is serving good drinks at reasonable costs, then pretty much you are just icing on the cake for them.  People will still come in.



Packed house & 15 singers?  How many in a packed house just out of curiosity.  I go with a group (15-20 singers alone plus their spouses or signifcants) around our area that are good singers (not drunks screamers) & our tabs generally avg around $500-600 between us with food & drink, the bars love it, the kj dislikes it because we push their normal 5-10 singer rotation into a 2 hour wait between songs.  We just note these clubs with kj's like this & do not return.



Then you should probably stay out of this area.  



Do you actually read the posts themselves for what they are saying or read what you want into them.  Most of the people are suggesting if the bars are complaing about water sippers & soda drinkers that the bar should raise their prices of those drinks or charge for refills like a new drink.  I don't think anyone (well maybe SW but not sure) said that it had to be their way.  A bar complains they don't make any money, they should try some other method to generate it.  If karaoke isn't bringing in the business, it could be the host or it could be no one wants to go to the bar...they do work hand in hand, bad bar service can drive away a crowd just as much as a bad kj.  

Well I have to sign off now, but from the old cowboy in Colorado I wish you all a good weekend and if you run into too many coke drinkers hitem over the head with a Bud Light bottle. If you are approached by a panhandler or homeless vet run like hell. They might want to come in and sing on your system and might even want to  sit on a bar stool.  We did have a homeless coming to our show at one time. We bought him food and cokes for awhile and then he got back on his feet, got a job and participated in our show for 4 years. If anyone here told him he had to drink or buy so many cokes the whole bar including staff and the owner would have asked you to leave.
Later Have a Good One!!![/quote]

I don't carry money, credit & debit only so if a panhandler approched me, I would have to say sorry buddy!  I have given food to some on occasion.  Again most of the bars/clubs i've been in wouldn't allow a person to stay if they were not spending...not necessarily drinking alcohol, but supporting the bar in some way.

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

 LMAO  The last post is a paragon and exemplifies the attitude on here that resists and rejects experience and tends to up my feathers.. This is a typical example of the old man talking and the kids knowing more than he does.



Seating capacity 125 Till for the last 6 months $2500-$3000. Shorty's grill in Greeley co Ya want a phone number?

If you take umbrage with that last comment and cant laugh then you are really out of touch. Are you people real? Do you have a sense of humor or have an inkling of personal relations?





Yes I have a reading and comprehension which is above average even at my age. I try to present a different attitude or try to give the benefit of many more years of experience and get attacked every time WE DO NOT HAVE THOSE PROBLEMS If you would listen I would tell you how to solve those  problems but you are too busy with  egos or whatever. You are a typical liberal with simple little rules and wonder why they still are not working. I have many years experience in the bar business and if you dont want to take advantage of that then I dont give a (@$%&#!). Just dont sit here and tell me I dont know what the hell I am talking about because I am about 2 years ahead of you already.
 God you people get serious.... I do have a problem with youngsters that have a problem with authority I am not your father and dont want to be.



CYA!! With my talent I have increased the till that much for years.. With cokes..  Click on the web site below..

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Don't need a phone number.  Obviously with 15 singers, they aren't coming in for YOU if they are "packing" the house.  You just happen to be the entertainment that some like to use.  The bar must be a great bar with good service & good drinks that happens to have karaoke.  



Ah so it must be a political thing or your "typical" converative attitude is bringing out a superiority complex (or you are on another drunken rant  :whistle: ).  Rules are made for reasons because idiots don't take realism into account & tend to take things too far & sometimes over the edge.  So rules are put into place to curb the idiots, yes I am all for rules & support them!  I don't have a problem with authority at all...when they make sense!



, with Coke, now I know you are delusional.

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

Son if you cant respect  the opinions of an elder or any body else without the animosities which you have just displayed  you have problems.  I sometimes wonder if  half of the people here even have gigs By the comments made here I know they dont.


Your attack did nothing Have a good weekend.

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There are 2 kinds of "coke."   One you drink and one you smell.

I agree with TTown.   Could be the KJ and or the help.   I have dealt with bad help and quit a job because of it.   It was a good decision.   People were not getting served for 15-20 minutes because the bartender was very busy.... doing NOTHING.

I pulled the plug on them.    Bar owners are idiots.    Not every bar patron wants to  go up to the bar to get a drink.  They want waited on.  Bar owners listen to the bartenders that want to work by themselves so they can make all the tip money.   But stupid bar owners don't realize how much money they are losing by not putting on a waitress.   It's not like you are paying them $100 an hour.   $3 an hour plus tips and you can't afford to do it?   No wonder people get mad and leave.   Not enough people to take the customers money fast enough, is the problem.

Any KJ that wants to work at a bar that gives away the profits and then wants to blame you, is an idiot.   Get another gig.   Check to see if they give free refills.  If they do keep looking for another gig.  

When a waitress or bartender makes more in tips that i can get paid, something is wrong.    Especially if people are telling me they can't get waited on.    I have had people tell me they won't come back to a bar because of bad service.    It hurts me.   And makes me look bad.   I don't need or want anyones help to make me look bad when it's not really my fault.    

Now either you are a bad KJ or it looks like you are.  Either way your reputation is taking a pounding.  MOVE ON TO GREENER PASTURES BEFORE THE HEARD DIES.   Tell the bar owner you can not afford him any more.    Or you can not afford to work here.   He's always shorting you on your fee.    If you want to work for peanuts then stay.  Quit  :bawling:   I would walk across the street and make the next bar owner an offer he can't refuse.    What's a ready made crowd worth to the bar competition?

 LMAO  I guess Dr Peeper is totally  out of the question and if we start buying 7-up we need to up the the price on wells by a quarter. At this rate we can even get rid of security, no wait a minute we have 40 drunks singing here we better not. We could stop putting free peanuts on all the tables.  WE better stop ladies night where they drink at half price esp during karaoke. The 50 drunks that come in can go some where else. But most of all we need to start charging $1.50 per  coffee instead of a measly dollar. And make sure nobody steals any sugar or salt.

In the meantime if you want to forget about this fantasy nonsense, get back into a normal mature positive frame of mind and start turning a profit please visit Cabaret Karaoke

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Just keep your 40 drunk singers out of here As far as I am concerned you are one of those down the street still having problems with every problem discussed on this forum and will forever. The 40 packed are coming in for us, they sure as hell aint going across town to listen to a bunch of drunks. Just keep those attitudes and thoughts and this old man will continue to leave you in the dust.

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I started a job at a location that never did karaoke before.  The place has a beer/wine license only and serves no food

There was a decent crowd my first night, but the owner cried "poverty".  I was surprised.  My quick calcualtions led me to believe that he had an "Okay", not great night.  Which isn't easy do to on just beer and wine.  

Ah, but what the owner neglected to tell me until the evening was over and I had come up with my "eyeball" estimate of his take is that my new karaoke night coexisted with what was always ladies night.

Ollie, you really need to back off the oldster / youngster thing.

Many of the people you're talking down to are PROFESSIONALS. It's hard to respect another PROFESSIONAL that acts this way.

 OK You are right.. These attitudes do not work at shows. But i do get tired of the immature phoney crap.. It is directed at those types.I apologize..

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Yep, keep your delusions in your head.  These are exactly the over egotistical statements made by someone trying to make themselves the top of the heap over anyones else here.  No one is your equal obviously & could never do as good of a job as you.
BTW YOU were the ones who turned this thread around to make it all about you and trying to tell YOU how to run YOUR show.  So what does THAT say for itself?  I don't care how old you are, sometimes you do not make sense!

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

Whatever. I have some more sausage to grind up.. And real things to do..Have a good day sir..BTW I have been at the top the ladder professionally all my life. I do not need to establish self at this point in my life on a forum. I am sorry you misinterpreted my motives. My opinion or yours on this forum is immaterial and will not cause any karma..

I found self and my god long ago from within. Just keep your drunk singers out of my bar

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