Karaoke Forums

You know, my daddy use to say being young is when you think you will never be that old and being old is when you never thought you were that young and neither of those scenarios are synonymous with wisdom.


Karyoker:  Your age and even experience doesn't give you the ability to say you are the end all say all of the karaoke business.  You deserve only the respect you show others, to get it you have to give it.  If you want to get through to Ttenor, don't immediately assume that you know more than he does.  Valuing someone's opinion and actually taking heed of it can get you VERY far in a disagreement.


and

Ttenor:  You don't have to attack karyoker to disagree with him.  Ad-hominem is just an expression of a mind that can't produce factual retorts.  If you want him to try to understand your way of thinking, calling his way of thinking stupid really isn't going to accomplish that goal.


Now both of you stop drinking the coke, have a beer and kiss and make up

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Most of my posts above were over reactions from having too much beer. I am the type that can blow my stack then 5 minutes later be laughing about it.

In a karaoke bar the daytime bartender and I had a relationship where she could call me any name in the book and we would just totally tie into each other and let it all out and in 5 minutes be buddies and confidantes. One hot aft going into happy I walked in and she had a few drunks already She was tired hot and ready to quit. As soon as I sat down it started. In a minute one of the drunks came running over and said is this guy bothering you? I'll kick his (@$%&#!). All of a sudden she was over the bar in his face You touch him I will F*&&^ kill you. He sat down she went back behind the bar and looked into my eyes. Then we broke out in hysterical laughter.

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and that's the problem here on this site... the comments are left up there far longer than the explosion of the moment.

I used to flame talk/type like that a lot, but have learned to type, sit back, and rethink it before typing again and hitting "ENTER"... because nine out of ten times, I realize it's no biggie in the end result

If anyone can drink from behind the bar in Colorado you guys have some really different liquor laws than we do. If it's staff on the clock around here it's an automatic 30 days shutdown.

What was this thread about? Oh yeah... you know whether singers drink or not, I don't think it matters all that much.  At least in my room. Each singer seems to be worth an additional four customers. Even if they don't bring them with them. When I'm doing a head count of the room there's generally four times as many people in there as there are singers.

The non-singers are there because the place is busy. That's basically it. No one wants to go into a dead bar.

Except karaoke singers. Last Saturday I came in to my room and no one was in it except the staff. Not even on the poker and slot machines. Totally dead.

In a normal bar anyone venturing in would turn around and leave because it was deserted. But then they came. The regular singers. One group at a time.

The usual comment was "'Wow this is great. Now we can sing more!"

By 11:00 the place was full.

Only in karaoke folks.

I really appreciated the last posting which rhetorically asked what this thread was about?  The post then proceeded to discuss matters other than what this thread was specifically started for.  

This thread started by questioning how to respond to owners who are disgusted with non-spending karaoke singers.  And ignoring the reality of what owners experience/believe is often what happens with this topic on this forum.  Doesn't it matter what owners believe.  Why do we, instead, minimize the problem by sharing only what we believe to be true.  


PS  I've never been to a karaoke show here in S Florida where non-singers outnumber singer 4 to 1

No she had some customers  drunk and happy hour wasnt even started yet. We have very stringent laws here. If they catch the mngr or any staff behind the bar drinking it is shut down now. That's why I wont work for those that do. You could lose  a few gigs real fast

I hung out in that bar about 5 years 7 nights a week didnt drink but cleaned the machines and maintained the system The old pioneer lasers. And helped out with other things in the bar. Of course some of the time I was buying drinks for my girlfriends. At my request they were under orders not to serve me drinks. If somebody needed a ride home I took them. Also got dart leagues going in this area. Last year there was 5 or 6 years ago and still friends from the Fort that I still sing with and love them very much.

Each situation is different and what works in one bar would not in others. Remember we are a small rural town and there are very few strangers.

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My post was answering the original topic, I believe, by showing an example (my room) of how even pop drinking karaoke singers can be of value to a room.

Of course we'd prefer them to either drink or gamble. Eating doesn't count as much because food isn't as profitable. But it's better than nothing.

Just my experience. And from your comments, yours is obviously much different.

My experience coincides with Purple's.

There's rarely an owner that I talk to that doesn't want to know how many people will attend my show - they want to know how large is my "following" and what age group it is comprised of.  If I can't provide a "following", most will pay no attention to what I have to offer.  Specifically, they'll ask, how many people will I, MYSELF AND ME bring in? And what the owners count on is A LARGE GROUP OF SINGERS!  They can't be concerned with who else might show up.  And when I consider how successful a night has been, I look at my rotation list.

And isn't the owner assuming that those who show up (singers) will spend money?  Maybe he has a figure in his head?  Would it be unreasonable to expect that the average person will spend $15 when they come in?  You can't get out of the typical movie house for less than that these days, including the cost of a ticket and snacks!  Sadly, many of the local venues have had it with karaoke because of the non-spending karaoke clientele (particularly the divas that sip water)!

In my world, if the singers don't spend enough money, it would be an imprudent business decision/model to expect that others will make up the shortfall!  Sure, after time and if there are other things to attract them, people other than singers (and their friends) will start to show up!  But I can't wait. I need singers (and their friends) today who will spend money in order to secure my position.  And what is required in total spending is not really that hard to accomplish.  But it requires that the singers in attendance, first and foremost, are the ones spending to support the show!

And I've come to wonder if this problem exists because of KJ's who have the luxury of accomodating non-spending singers.  These non-spending, leeches must have learned somewhere that they can come into a business, occupy space at a table/bar, and take a turn in a singing rotation without spending any money.  At my show, I tell the barmaid to let me know if someone isn't spending much of anything.  I will let such a person know that I don't work for nothing and they don't get to sing for nothing!

So, I ask, what benefit do I derive from from being told by my peers that said problem doesn't really exist or is not a big deal?  Or to be told that non spending singers is the owner's problem/fault?  And I surely don't benefit being told that there are mitigating circumstances for singers who put little or nothing into the cash drawer of an establishment and that they, in fact, are a good thing for the establishment and karaoke.

I need for the people who are enjoying and benefitting from my show to pay the establishment for my services.  I don't need someone who spends little money but tips a bartender LARGE.  I don't need good singers who don't spend money. I need dollars going into the register so that I can continue to get paid for what I do so well!

PS:  If I have a show at a restaurant that does not charge any of it's patrons for refills, why should a karaoke singer be charged for refills?   On the other hand, why doesn't said singer purchase some appetizers or deserts, or something?  Ooh, ooh, I know -- they're the designated dieter!!!!

I'm very sure that every bar has the same type of people coming in on non entertainment nights too.

As stated you can not expect everyone to spend $50 every time they go out.   I have heard different people say they can't afford to go out night after night.    The money isn't as freely available as it was before the gasoiline price increases that started a few years ago.  

I can not guarantee a "following" because i don't know if people will want to come to your bar.  :shock:


Is the bartender competent enough to take care of everyone fast enough?

Is the food good?

Are the restrooms clean?

Are the prices reasonable?

Are you a jerk bar owner that nobody wants to be around?

Is the cliental all drunks and druggies?

Have you chased everyone away with a biker night?

Are there nightly fights?

Do you allow the trouble makers to come back?

Do you need a bouncer?

Do you give free drink refills?

Do you give away free water?

Do you think i should cater only to your friends?

If you can answer no to all of the above questions then and only then, will i have a following.

I can maintain a following, if there is one.

Something else.   KARAOKE is not like a DJ or a band.

Karaoke attracts many different people with different musical tastes.   Bands and DJs do have a following of the same people that want to hear basically the same songs, night after night.   They are usually songs that are dance songs.    Because that's usually why they follow them, because all they want to do is dance.

Karaoke crowds are different.  They know there will be a wide variety of music played.    They may also do karaoke at a different bar on "your" night.   So it may take some time for the word to spread before they decide to come here.   This is why i give a beginning price break to get the crowd built up.    This is why you should charge for every drink.    We are all here to make money.    I can help you do this.     If you help me and help yourself.

Karaoke is totally different than your other entertainment nights.    And the crowds build totally different.

I always include a dance set between rotations for the people who aren't into karaoke or want to dance. It helps include the rest of the bar and gets people up dancing - get thirsty - drink more beer - bar makes more money!

We would NEVER get away with playing an entire dance song at our current shows. I have been to shows where about half-way through the night they'd play something like Cupid Shuffle and all the regulars would jump up and dance. I used to do the Ten Buck Booty Call, put on some booty music and everybody'd get up and dance. Sort of a 7th inning stretch but those shows were not for the hardcore singers. The hardcore singers don't want anything to interrupt the rotation.

I've always promoted the idea of free popcorn or pretzels on the tables at the bars where people tended not to drink enough.  That stuff is hard not to eat, and make you real thirsty. Doesn't cost much for a HUGE bag of pretzels at Costco.... (My son used to work at a movie theater, he said the salt mixture they put on the popcorn also contained flour so it'd really make you thirsty - don't know if there's truth to that, but I found it interesting.)

K

Now THAT'S a good idea.   I've only been to one bar that offered free popcorn.  Now I know why.  Know I know how to encourage bars I gig at to get people to buy more drinks!  :dancin:

yeah that's an old bar trick, back to when they offered chips, beer nutz, pretzels, snacks like that... all in bowls for free!

Another reason why mexican restaurants put out the chips and salsa... makes ya thirsty, and you'll drink more to parch yoru thirst!