Karaoke Forums

why do you mention Fair Use for commercial karaoke? Fair Use ONLY applies to homes and education uses of copyrighted material... and even then, some schools, operating on Fair Use, are STILL denied usage of copyrighted materials (Disney in particular is very controlling of their material).

I too was ONCE under the impression that Fair Use allowed we operators to do the computer thing... it doesn't.

US courts case law does not support this statement!
For example, Roy Orbison's Estate v. 2 Live Crew.... the US Supreme Court ruled that the copying was lawful fair use despite the fact that it was done for a commercial purpose.




I am not saying "fair use" does or does not allow format-shifting of CDGs.  I am saying that I expected someone reading this article would wrongly bring up the argument for fair use applying.  That is a mute point as this article is Australian Law where "fair use" exemption does not exist.

I know I shouldn't post this , but I'm going to. It seems most of you don't grasp the difference between AUDIO and AUDIO/VISUAL. CD's vs CDG's. The fair use law, if you care to read it secifically says Audio recordings can fall under fair use, It omits Audio/Visual because that would include Movies, Music Video's etc. Under the current US Copyright laws CDG'S with graphics  fall under the same provisions as movies, We all know it is illegal to copy a movies even for home use, will we get caught, NO.
Is it legal NO. CDG'S reguire the same synch licensing  from the orginal copyright holder , which is why an artist can refuse to license a karaoke cdg, but virtually cannot refuse music as long as the compulsary licensing is paid. The synch licensing is what creates the situation for being excempt from the "Fair Use Act". At this point the synch licensing has been upheld in every Federal case involving karaoke reproductions and has also been upheld in appelate court also. And while I actually don't agree with the synch licensng  with regards to karaoke the courts have. Just in case I haven't made it clear it is NOT legal to make a copy of a CDG even for personal use.
THX

Phxkj, I didn't personally grasp it til just now- thanks for clarification.

So how is my laptop able to be shipped with a dvd burner for burning movies, and why can i have Tivo record my favorite shows, videos, etc, on my tv?

I've always wondered why don't these manufacturers get into trouble as they blatantly defy the laws? Even my Cavs system is questionable. I just pay a lot and go about my business, but do wonder why we as kjs should be the least bit paranoid....?

it's hard to read between interpretation of law vs. opinions- so i don't really have one. I'll borrow yours if you don't mind- hoping it's lawful.

Let me see if I can answer at least part of that. If I manufacture a gun and sell it to you, that would be legal, normally, until you did something illegal with it, right. Let's use cav's nothing wrong with making a kard drive machine until you try to use it illegally, It's always been questionable whether cav's actually had any rights to sell music. I believe this now has been addressed with lawsuits by famous and now Sonyand there lawsuits contend that cav's has never had licensed music. Also just a note according to a number of publishers. There is NO licensing availible for karaoke music for virtually any hard drive application for commercial use. Actually if you go to the Riaa site I believe it also states copying music to a hard drive is illegal.  Which is why both SC and Stellar have stated they can't support that format. If a publisher allows licesing which I believe is the case on some download for a movie, I think you have to pay something for it, don't you. That would be a licensing fee and something for the company. Even the karaoke companies don't want to get into personal use, not because it's not legal, but as many people have pointed out how in the world could anybody enforce it. Panorama records has sold downloads through cav's. they have a multi-million dollar judgement hanging over them from Zomba reccords for trying to use the fair use laws while not paying licensing fees. Again let's remember it is only illegal because publishers refuse to license and they have that right. Cav's has sold hard drives and downloads to karaoke that has been out of business for years such as DK, MM etc, I would assume so there was no one to go after them

Someone should create a dead horse Emoticon to beat.    :banghead:  :cowboy:   GET OVER IT!  I am going to use my "format-shifted" material until a court tells me that it is 100% illegal.  

SC's disks say "Not for commercial use."  So that means all of you that use the original disks that you purchased are technically breaking the law (assuming that SC licenses everything they produce and they have the right to restrict or allow use.)  Can we move on and talk about what type of mixers, speakers, and mics you all use.  

Sorry Melrose, all of those links are opinions of people that won't make the final ruling on anything.  So they are worth the same as my opinion.

How about starting a thread about equipment, mixers, mics, etc in the TECHNICAL FORUM and let us hash this law thing some more!! There are some that don't know it as well as you might!

good idea on the dead-horse emoticon though!  :wave:

And now you want to add cruelty to animals to the rest of the charges?    Animal Cruelty will get you more hard time than all the rest of them.

Jreynolds, I believe that this thread is about just that and would assume that if the karaoke guy wanted a thread on equipment he should start one, Of coarse I also find it very amusing that with all the threads that have delt with this particular dead horse in the last 7 months that the karaoke guy has been on this site he would have learned what the disclaimer on SC discs, CB discs,Stellar discs and virtually any legitmate manufacturer ( and I use the term legitmate very loosely)means. It means unless the public performance rights are paid ASCAP,BMI,and Sesac you can't us the disc legally, commercially. This has been relayed in a dozen threads from lonman and several others. And this is why it gets beat to death. If you prefer to use a hard drive that's up to you. But it's also obvious by you statement that you know a whole lot less than you should

Yet Sound Choice sell karaoke music in this format for their DoPi karaoke - mp3G based.  They sell video downloads as well designed to be played back on the computer, or Ipod type units.  So obviously they DO in FACT support the format.

http://www.dopikaraoke.com/

Guess when it benefits them is when they can do it huh?

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

I didn't create, but i've had it for a while.

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T,  They do not support it for commercial use,and in fact SC's contract with dopi specifically states no commercial use. There are also only 300 or 400 songs max on this site.

Ok, so you don't think people are using these files commercially.  I seriously doubt that 99% of the people that download a file they pay for actually take the time to read the fine print that is usually written in a smaller font & takes up 5-10 minutes to actually go through.
But that wasn't the issue, you made the generalized statement that SC does not support these computer files...they do!  They even said at one time on their own forum that they are going to be greatly expanding this library as well over a couple years.  I see now that they are going to be adding 1500 new songs so it's already beginning.

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

TT, I believe you quoted me correctly and I said they could not support the format for commercial use. And i just went to the dopi site and if you go to copyright/legal it states specifically in at least 3 or 4 places for non commercial use.or for personal use only, your right not many people will care or read the disclaimers. that'swhy they call it piracy

Brilliant Lonman! Just what we were looking for

Phxkj, i know a lot more than i let-on to be honest. I just like to hear a few people ramble on about their half-witted-witty opinions that's all. . It entertains me.
I've been neck-deep in this business plus the entire industry for wayyyyyy too long. I'm semi-retired now...  J.R.

...And I'm still faithfully playing 'at full volume' those discs that state specifically on them that you have to do that...Can't remember which brand...any other law-abiding people still doing that?

k

That would have been All Hits & all of their spawns.  
Not to be played in public unless played at full volume.  Yeah THESE are legal to begin with!

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does SC dopi files have graphics ???????

I think they are just mp4 video files?  But yes they do have on screen lyrics.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

JR, My comment about knowing more was for "The Karaoke Guy" with regards to his comments about the disclaimers on SC disc's