Karaoke Forums

After reading so many posts here I have noticed that there are people here that obviously no one likes, and there are those no one will respect and there are those that no matter what they write it has just made me laugh.

One thing seriously I did notice was the never ending "Never trust another KJ" comment.

I too am offended by this. After all, it was other KJ's that got me into the business, it was other KJ's that taught me things, it was other KJ's that gave me adivce, it was the other KJ's and at no time being selfish, backstabbing, or condicending in helping me suceed.
And I do trust them, I know I have friends in the industry that I can alway's turn to for advice, or suggestions, or even to cover a night for me or refer events to, without the threat of having them "backstab" me or try and take over...

And yes we do need an alliance. There are too many hosts out there who say nothing good about others, or refelect possitive comments in their direction without saying something short of cutting them down.

I DO NOT respect anyone who knows me that can not tell me their suggestions or oppinions, but rather talk about me behind my back. I do not respect anyone that will degrade me as a host, or say I am "less" than they are, I will not respect anyone who's main goal is to obviously make everyone else seem to be worse, untrained, or have bad equipment, or bad music, or bad attitude.

I know many hosts, I go to a lot of other shows, but one thing I will never do is blatently sit there and make comments about anyone on an assumption, or make anyone look bad for my benefit.

I have hosted for 10 years, and just started my own business not too long ago, I used my own money to get started, and it has been very difficult to even try and compete with others because of various things they do or have. I am just not there yet. I dont have a computer based system, I dont have over 100,000 songs, I may not have a huge selection of exceptional music, I may not have the best of the best of the best, or have what "barbara jean" down the street has. But I am friendly, I do try and make everyone comfortable, I do put every penny back into my business, and thus being hard since I am still not even able to paymeself or pay employees to help me. I have not paid myself back yet for the $10,000 + I had to pay out to get started... the phrase "starving musician" comes in to play here.
I have found it very hard because each week I have found myself needing to replace something or buy something, or add music, or something something something... and it never ends. I did not do this as a hobby, I have done this as a career, and so far I have not even profited in any way. To say the least I have done everything I can to try and keep up without going bankrupt, and only the "vicious" and "Scandelous" KJ's in my area are the ones who try and cut me down. Everyone else including Kj's & people who have done the karaoke circut for years have given me good feedback. So I must be doing something right.

The point is no one should be cut down for trying, and even though there are people out there who are obviously trying to dmamge everyone else, I have integrity and morals. I will not give up and I will not sit here and coward because someone else feels threatened because I have a system less than "acceptable" to them, or a music selection that is not met their approval.
I love the people, I do it for them, I buy music when requested, I update things to accomodate singers not other host's who feel that I should have what they have or cut me down because I dont. (And yes, it seems that I hear it a lot from other people who tell me what others have said about my equipment) But the thing is this, karaoke is the only income I have, I dont have other income to suppliment the funding of my business, I do with what I have.
I know many others in my possition, and I would never cut them down, or be callus about them in any way, if anything I would point them in the right direction to get things affordable to help them out - that is if I knew where.

The reality is this, this IS A CUT THROAT buisness, and there are many people out there you can not trust, and there are people out there that will try and make you look bad to justify themselves in some small way, but there are people you can trust, and I have to say the friends we have are like family to us, we have a wonderful relationship with the other people in this industry that we are friends with, and yes I would trust them with everything, because they have earned that.

Each of us has had our fair share of the "karaoke Hackers" and "Pirates" and you know no matter where you go, go no matter how you run your business or how well you treat others they will be out there. But someday they will fall and I believe in Karma... so one day they will be seen for what they really are.

As for karaoke alliance, I have found that, and I do believe that it is in good judegement that I came to find the friendhips where it counts. Just remember there are good people out there. I know that.

Whoever has been burned before has obviously never gotten over it, or found to move on and actually trust other people again. I do feel bad for those people, it must be a lonely existence.

KJM

I think I agree......couldn't read the entire post

errr kjmelrose have you met our Kappy? it could be a match made in essay heaven

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

[font=Verdana]Your statement reminds me of the restaurant business I used to have in Idaho, it was a great success for my employees, the tax man, and the customers who came in and enjoyed the food, but I never made a penny for myself.  I think the problem is people, especially bar owners, don't respect the money and effort that it takes to be a good KJ.  It seems to have the stigma, that we are only KJ's because we aren't capable of doing anything else, or we think it's an easy way to make a buck.  When my son and I put the first system together, our motivation was, it was a way for me to supplement my retirement, and for him to do something he loved using his talent.  Being very ignorant at the time about the karaoke business, I told him that I might be able to invest a thousand or so of my savings.  Now all my savings are invested in the two systems, and I'm looking at 10 times what I thought I would have to invest. Until we start respecting each other, I don't think we will be getting much respect from other people. I have to agree with the other people that have replied to your post, but you do make a lot of good points!  [/font]

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Dusty Rose
Blue Rose Classic Karaoke
More Sound! More Selections! More Fun!
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Bar/ lounge/ restaurant gig is just one aspect of karaoke business. Most of the KJ here have regular gig in those kind of establishment. This aspect of KJ'ing is very competitive and the return is not that good.

What is hardly ever discuss here is the private gig ie wedding and anniversary events where an average free is at least 3x that of a club gig. Just thinking loudly...

I didn't read your entire initial post. I am tired and it was long.. Sorry.. But I can tell you that in the DFW area there is somewhat of a KJ alliance.  Many of us know each other and support each others shows.  When we get overbooked we will refer gigs to each other.  If someone is not able to make a booked gig it is not uncommon to call on out KJ friends to fill in.  Perhaps many do not aggree with this but it seems to work in this area.    Just last week Phatrat (my husband) was called to fill in for a sick KJ.  If he hadn't felt like doing it I would have, if I wasn't in the mood I could have called any number of my KJ friends to see if they were available.   Just the way we are around here.

And that's all I have to say about that....

Sharon

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

I have three KJ friends who work together in that way.  I have been asked to sit in for them various times.  So far, I haven't needn't any help but I know "my back is covered"!

And Isis you guys are in a large metro area. We are in a small rural community but it blows my mind by some posts on here. All the KJ'S down the street are strangers, most of the singers are strangers....Other than the college kids my customers are friends I have known and sang with for over 15 years. When a strangers come in they are not strangers very long. If they are singers I introduce them to the singers at the nearby table.

Various venues take different talents or amount of talent. People cannot fathom everybody belonging to a mutual alliance but we all share the same basic goals. I'm not sure what the initial requirements would be but they could not be too stringent. I can see seminars for the tech end and PR tecniques. It will be formed someday but I dont look for it soon. When it does everybodys fee will double. I have seen it happen in other businesses so it is not a theory or a dream.

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I don't think it will happen as long as the karaoke disc manufacturers and everyone else, are tring to put us out of business over the format shifting debate.

It's like chopping of the hand that offends.

I think some sort of alliance or organization makes a lot of sense. Some sort of KJ "certification" would be great. If the association was organized and professional, then, perhaps there would be a voice that could deal with the recording industry to allow things like format shifting to certified KJs.

If I'm not mistaken there was an organization started a few years back that tried to ORGANIZE karaoke pros and it failed miserably .

Could be a GOOD THING ...BUT GOOD THINGS COST MONEY TO RUN AND MAINTAIN.   No KJ's or singers want  :(  :(  to pay membership fees or DUES

If it comes down to paying a membership or being unemployed, jailed or fined it does...

because you will be paying to keep what you have.

In my neck of the woods, there are three and a half professional KJs.  We all visit each other's shows and support each other.  Granted we're a few miles apart from each other and have our own niche's, but we talk shop and help each other any way we can.  There are a few house systems in town (that suck - can I say that without being perceived as insulting someone).  House KJs in this area come and go like beer farts.

Pirates have just created a nasty atmosphere around here - too many of them, and it is very difficult to be nice at all to those jerks. The rest of them - apparently they have no compunction at all about scooping so why on earth would I want to consort with the likes of them?  It's a dog-eat-dog world in the area we're in (north of Seattle).

k

Business is Business and all is fair in Love and Karaoke..........

No KJ has ever lost a show/gig because of a "pirate" -
Kj's lose shows for many reasons
#1) Price
#2) Personality
#4) Inferior Equipment
#5) see #1 and #2

Maybe it could be called the American Karaoke Bar Association.  

They're heart is in the music
And they love to sing it loud
There's no forms or applications
There's no red tape administrations
It's the American Karaoke Bar Association

As I was sitting here reading through all the post again something dawned on me.  For the most part Karaoke-Scene is an Alliance.  We get together and we talk about what works and what doesn't.  We talk about equipment and programs and to have filler music or not, etc....  This IS an Alliance, to me.  Now others may disagree. But if you think about it, that is more or less what this is.  Other than having dues or an annual meeting this site helps us all become better at what we love doing, Singing Karaoke or Hosting Karaoke.  

About a year or so ago there was much discussion on this site about becoming a certified KJ.  Perhaps having a standardized test that all KJ's would take that would ensure that you know how to be a KJ.  Nothing realy came of that as far as I know.  I'll bet Ollie or Lonman or Jian would be able to find that thread of discussion.  It was pretty interesting and is a good idea.

Anyways, I just thought I would share that with you.

Sharon

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

Pretty strong statement there Jam.

I think perhaps sheer number of songs a pirate may carry (100k) has swayed many an owner  into thinking it's a free major upgrade, without lowering the kjs $ rate.

-there might also be former legal kjs that went the illegal route to save money but kept their experience and knowledge at the going-rate for hosts.

-maybe the money saved on karaoke songs that were pirated gave them money to invest in more equipment such as dj lights and trusses, more quality books, or an assistant to cater personally to each singer. -NOT just better quality main-equipment i think you might be referring to (speakers, computers, racks, mics)

-it's all speculative on my part because it hasn't happened to me personally, but seems possible someone else here has become a victim of a pirate- without being undercut- just overtaken because of offering more bang for the same buck.

Not disagreeing with you in a mean way or anything. Just thinking there may be more room for debate on this.  :wave:  J.R.

Good idea yes, but it was shot down fast mainly because there is no one way to run a show.  Everyone that is worth their weight in the entertainment field should know this.  What policies/beliefs works for some don't work for others.  Or what is required/needed at one show, may not be needed at others.  Some are very firm that certain equipment should be a minimum requirement & that certain rules should apply to every show, while other will use whatever equipment they want & say F*** rules.  Others will drink to sloppiness & believe it's stupid to adjust a singer, while others won't touch a drink & dial in everyone.
An alliance will never work because no one can agree on anything even just in talking & that was basically proven then & still continues on today.

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Musicians have unions, plumbers have unions, police have unions, they work.    A fair wage is guaranteed.    As stated, there will always be scabs that don't or won't comply.  And bar owners that say they can't afford to pay union scale.