Karaoke Forums

Sounds like your typical DJ mixer. Not really the best for karaoke, for quite a few reasons. One of them is that you typically have no separate monitor mix. Others are poor mic preamps, no channel EQ for mics, and limited ability for reverb and other effects.


Not completely. One of the advantages of a separate monitor mix is that you can adjust it so the singer positions the microphone to serve what your vision of the main mix is, not what their vision of the main mix is. I know shy singers who like to fade into the background -- for them I like to turn the monitor down so they sing louder. For hams like me, you are better off to turn the monitor up.

As a singer, I like to hear myself definitely up over the top of the music. I also like some reverb, but not too much, in the monitor mix. The KJ may have a different idea of what the main mix should be, but that way we both get what we want.

It is actually quite rare that I can both hear myself and my opinion of the main mix is good. Last night was a good night, at a great 7-day-a-week karaoke club in Virginia Beach, VA. It must be a karaoke hotbed, as there are three 7-day-a-week karaoke clubs in a 1-mile radius.

Karen,

I love this!  The reason is, I hear this 'every' week..."which mic?" & "Is this on(while they are looking for a switch)?" and my reply..."They are the same, don't matter & there is NO switch, they're on.....you need to sing into the mic to hear a noise!"  This is usually followed by "tap,tap,tap"  Which I CANNOT stand, which I usually mute and say, quit tapping my mic, it's on!!!

MrD

"I use two SM58 corded mics - people tend to hold them too far from their mouth.  Once I get them to hold it close enough (lips almost touching it) and adjust their volume from the board, they don't usually forget it.

People will walk up, see two mics and say, "Which one?" They're identical mics"

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
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As a singer, I don't like to "shout-sing" because I think my voice sounds better if I don't have to belt out EVERY note.

So I'm always having to ask KJs to turn up the mic.

On the other hand, SHOULD I be belting out every note?? Obviously, it brings more energy to the stage. Hmm...

Back on topic, I like it better if the main speakers are a little behind me or turned slightly toward the stage or there's a little bit of vocal monitor

This way I can tell if I'm EVEN CLOSE to singing the right note

At my current Saturday gig - speakers are off to the side and behind the singers , so they can hear themselves FINE.  In the past when the singer was behind the mains I did set up a 3rd  monitor speaker.

Although I do prefer a monitor, I agree that the size of the venue and speaker placement plays a role in whether a monitor is truly neccessary. When we had the speakers about 30 feet apart and parallel with the singers it was definitely needed. The smaller venue we play now it's not as critical because the speakers are slightly behind and we play the music fairly loud. I don't have any trouble hearing myself in the mix.

I have sung before where the monitor was tinny sounding ( felt like only vocals were coming out ) and was drowning out the main mix, which wasn't very loud in the first place. I had a hard time trying to sing in key because it felt like I was just singing to myself. Like I said before, I prefer monitors but only if they are used right.

I don't think you should belt out every note at all. It depends on the song -- if you belt out "Amarillo By Morning" or the first half of "I've Got You Under My Skin" it will be totally wrong.

In fact, I would say in general you want to not belt out every note, especially toward the first part of most songs. It is when you can do most of a song without pressing that that you get the type of dynamic range that gives the soaring feeling that a lot of songs need to sound great.

Could be a lot of things.  Speaker placement.   Lack of system clarity.    Lack of mixing talent.    Crowd noise.    Low system volume.   Bad (Inadequate) microphones.   Bad (singer) microphone technique.   Bad room accustics.

I finally got tired of trying to get the speakers right, so I got rid of them all. Now, I just use the karaoke player video out to a video monitor, and we sing a capella. It really doesn't sound that bad if you can keep the crowd quiet, kinda like the first round of American Idol, and if they are loud, it's still better than some of the karaoke shows I've been to, even though they had several speakers......

See, I'm the opposite, well not quite.  I don't like the 'shout-sing', but I do like to have push out my voice a little in order to get it to register on the mic...MrD

"As a singer, I don't like to "shout-sing" because I think my voice sounds better if I don't have to belt out EVERY note.
So I'm always having to ask KJs to turn up the mic."

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

Some songs require that hard singing - but one should not have to sing hard to be heard - mic control is the key - and preferably applying mic control to a GOOD mic.

I can't imagine singing BIG blues numbers with a head voice, softly - through years and years of practice I can push my chest voice to as high as my head voice...and frankly, my song choice dictates that I sing HARD.

It is comical to watch a host quickly have to adjust for volume when they've had 'coo'ers' all night and someone with vocal control and the ability to project step up to the mic. Projection is the key - doesn't necessarily involve an increase in volume so much as an increase in depth.

Randy, you have great projection and I didn't have any problem hearing you the other night at all! (PS: Enjoyed your song choices, too!)

k

I go with two SRM450s and a SRM350 monitor. I would like to get a subwoofer but what I have is totally enough for my small venue (the room only holds about 80 standing room).

I have seen people go with less in even bigger rooms.

None of the local KJs besides myself do use a monitor (about 6 different rigs). Probably 90% of the people who come to my show don't notice the difference, but that 10% often become regulars.

A monitor is not needed, but it helps make you a little bit better if done right. It is the little things that get noticed.

A good example of this is mic stands. The previous Kj had a place to hang the mic off of his tv monitor. Perfectly good place to put a mic, but some singers want to sing with a stand. I got a free mic stand after spending a big load of cash on the speakers. Although I knew it would help (sometimes) I was surprised at how many of the previous regulars commented on that little thing as an improvement to the show. The point is to make them happy.  The little things even if they are not commented on often help the show, and a monitor can easily be one of them.

The only drawback with a monitor is that rare singer that on the instrumental breaks points the mic directly at the monitor by mistake....

All good points there Doc!

-except the monitor thing for me- i carry 450's as well and there just isn't anymore space in the suv for another speaker-although the 350s are small. i think monitors are noticed by more seasoned singers.

The rest you mentioned is right-on. little things DO make a difference and singers who get around always notice and compare shows and what they offer.  J.R.

"use of a mic stand"

On this I would totally agree.  If I have to sing with a mic with a cord...I want a mic stand!  Don't know why, but it's my zone!
MrD

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[highlight=midnightblue]MrD - KJ/DJ Specialist
Visit MrD on facebook - mrdsentertainment
& on myspace - larrynance[/highlight]

Blushing. Thanks! Your setup has great sound! It was fun to hang out and do some harmonizing. Cool venue too.

Since the thread is titled "Speaker Arrangement" I though I might mention something about that.

   I have three different set-ups, two of which I run without monitors.  Depending on venue size, one way to arrange your speakers is on the diagonal.

   Let's say you are running two speakers. Place the front one on the side farthest from the singer. The rar speaker ant the diagonal opposite.  The audience gets a full stereo effect, and the singer has the rear speaker facing him/her giving the same sound impression as the audience hears.   This works best if at least the rear speaker is on a stick, though both would be better.  You can bring the rear speaker closer if you want to leave some "conversation space" in the back...

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I came across this idea for a monitor speaker...  kinda neat, but could risky in a karaoke venue...  maybe one could have one of these placed on a seperate mic stand that the singer doesn't touch!

http://www.tc-helicon.tc/voicesoloxt

I use 15" speakers as my mains, but carry a litle Yamaha 10" as my monitor. I tend to shove it under the table, on the side, anywhere I can, but I always use it. I have 2 main out on my mixer (Mackie DFX 12), and one is for the main speakers (since I run mono this is no big deal), and the other is for the monitor. If someone is haing trouble hearing, I can raise the volume on JUST the monitor, and it usually satisfies...

This also allows me to place the 2 main speakers in fron and far apart for better sound and coverage.

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Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

I just got a new anal monitor.......it delivers some awesome bass.......and feed back feels sooooooo  good.....

Actually Galaxy Audio has been making what they call a "Hot Spot" monitor for years, they can be purchased powered or unpowered  also. I've been using one personally instead of a floor wedge for almost ten years now in a live rock band situation, at less than ideal SPL level, and their performance is excellent. I've never used the Helicon version but if they perform as well as the Galaxy's, I would highly recommend them for a Karaoke situation or any situation. Very small, very light, very nice sound. They are suppose to mount to a mic stand but I incorporated a mount right on my keyboard stand which places it about 3 foot away and at ear level. I don't ever plan on using floor wedges again. If your looking for monitors they are definitely something to check out. And just so I qualify for this thread, I always have my frontals in front, I never cross the plane of the mic, I don't like to tempt the feedback gods.

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Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

Yeah my mixer is more of a DJ mixer than anything.  It doesn't have echo/reverb, but am using a dedicated unit for that anyhow, but it does have dedicated mic channels and handels them well.

Will look into a new mixer sometime soon.  Ta:)