Karaoke Forums

A fellow this week jumped into the middle of an friendly converation between me and a friend...taking me to task. He got a bit nasty and personal, but I just went along with him... then he later sub'd his first song.

From his statement to me, I expected an professional execution of a song from him...but, alas, he was just average, like the rest of us.  Even though I encouraged him to continue posting his songs...he again turned nasty.

Perhaps he's bipolar.....

My question: How do you respond to uninvited, nasty comments?  Do you take the high road; get pissed off; or chase the person down?

Id hunt them down and kick their butt. That how we handle things in Texas.

 Sometimes the best and easiest way to deal with them, is to not deal with them at all.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

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I've seen the comment you are talking about and to be honest, it wasn't nasty at all. I think, sometimes we just tend to misinterpret what we see, depending on the mood we are in, or we just see, what we want to see. I have been on sites like this for eight years now, and believe me, I've seen a lot. Nasty is something else!
I tell you, how I see what happend...He said something about your style and the songs you were singing, and that maybe another genre, like oldies, would suit you more. He also mentioned that you are a great singer, as far as I can remember. What is nasty about that? Thought it was a honest opinion...(we don't see that often on this site)...everybody seems to be 10 on here, by the comments we give and get. You'll never see a difference between somebody who can sing and puts a lot of work into his recordings, and somebody who can't, (sometimes a shame), because every comment says the same...FANTASTIC, AWESOME and EXCELLENT!!! There are indeed a FEW that deserve this...the rest is just FLUFF!

The judges at the Idol thingy would say, to never ask your friends, or family to tell you how good you are, because they would always tell you, that you are a superstar, even if you're not...It's the same with a mom and her baby...no matter how ugly it really is, it's beautiful in her eyes. Your "fans" on here do the same and think it's cool. Only somebody who's not knowing you (like he was), is speaking the truth.

After you asked him to post a song, I was as curious as you to see, how he sounds like. You call it avarage, I was very impressed...thought he sounded very professional, not to say, it was one of the best subs I've ever heard. I also read the comment you gave him and if you found his to you nasty, then yours to him was nasty as well... (the bipolar thing too, btw)

See Jerry, we all see things different...nothing wrong with this, as long as we don't make a drama out of it

Happy posting now, see you on stage!  :yes: [/font]

Mona that is a particularly well thought out post to this thread and I couldnt agree more...I too saw the comments and felt they were polite, almost deferential.

As to the bipolar remark Mona, I agree, totally uncalled for given oldcountry was polite. I do think its a shame that he felt the need to remove his comments as they were expressed politely and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Tis one thing to fart from the mouth about liking straight comments and no fluff, accepting the same takes a little more than lip-service

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I took the original post at face value. It states "Uninvited Nasty Comments". I tried to find what this is about, and I'm puzzled, because something doesn't add up.
This is what I see:

4-08-08
Oldcountry Stated:
                   

Jerry Replied:



4-09-08
Jerry Stated:

Oldcountry Replied:

=====================================================

My concern being mixed messages given by individuals ultimately making it tough for those of us that wish for honesty to receive it on these sites.

4-08-08
What has Oldcountry done that's worthy of being termed "nasty" assumimg this is the dialogue that's culminated in this thread?  Assuming he's wronged Jerry, Why has Jerry thanked him for his honesty stating further, " I appreciate the honesty" ?

the 4-09-08 exchange confuses issues more.
(Since this has been broached in the Singers Forum as a general question, and obviously Oldcountry is feeling hurt by an exchange with Jerry too- I wanted to reference the nasty event).

Is it safe to assume the OP is referring to Oldcountry ?  Is it also safe to assume that Oldcountry has left uninvited nasty comments, has vacillated, and this is a fair evaluation of what actually transpired ?  

Jerry States:


and Jerry critiques anyway ?   (Isn't this spiteful?)

It seems to me, just based on the little I see here that Oldcountry was being honest, that he had no nasty intent.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

[font=Comic Sans MS]Is it possible that it's only a farce? Is it a way to get more attention? Do we act like kids sometimes? Is the earth really a sphere? Who am I?  Huston, we have a problem....

Guess this post makes no sense...fact is, Oldcountry wasn't nasty!  
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Even if it's a face though, Moony.
It's real to Oldcountry.  He's not going to sub anymore because in his words he feels beat up by sarcasm.  Clearly somethings lopsided here.  As it so often is.  All that bothers me is that this is a prime example of why many fear being honest !  That hurts those of us that need honesty to improve singing.  Sarcasm (assuming it was used) can sting pretty badly. If Jerry didn't like Oldcountry's comment, why all this beating around the bush ?  Makes showcase a nasty environment, which is why some of we regs don't wish to participate there.

By deliberately critiquing a person KNOWING they don't want a critique, Jerry already "Got tinkled off" and "Chased the person down".  How many shots does he wish to take at this guy ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

[font=Comic Sans MS]There was a time (long ago), on another site, where the singers voted ten judges that were allowed to give critiques. It was nice at the beginning, but after a while the people got nasty and voted the judges subs with 1s. Then the judges turned annonymous, it didn't helped at all...nobody wanted a critique anymore.
Believe me, it will never change. As long as they get their excellent comments, they're happy, but BEWARE of opening your mouth and telling the truth. You'll not see only one person jumping on you, you'll see 20!!
The same on here..as long as your subs are on "J" is all fine, but when you start to to sub on "C", your rank is going from 10 to 8, or less. That's not the problem...the problem is, that people that can't hit a note feel like pros and give you the coolest critiques (all negative)...But what happens more often, you have the same excellent comments, but (@$%&#!) ranks...You then think twice, if you wanna do it again...Nice phenomenon, though  LOL [/font]

Some of us don't wish for rank, consider NOTHING helpful "negative", and we try to show respect for those helping us (by taking time to point out what we can tweak).. Even before I decided to try to learn how to sing, I made it clear that honesty is a must, reason being if I care enough about something, and know I am incapable of hearing myself as I actually sound, assuming I wish for some concept as to where I stand honesty is needed, and must be accepted graciously by me from day one.  If I allow myself to get used to lies and fluff.. I'm still a crappy singer, even if I've developed a huge chip on my shoulder.  Difference is, that chip on my shoulder is what will keep me from becoming a singer. Additionally,  there's very little stress when you are least capable in a given area.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

[font=Comic Sans MS]I agree, ranks are not important, but the most associate critique with ranking. I'm also open for honest critique, but I want only the one coming from people as good as I am, or better, who know what they are talking about. Does that make any sense? [/font]

Mona I agree with everything but your last statement...cos one person who is an amazing critiqer (fair, good ear, etc) is Kappy...yet by his own admission he is only now learning to sing. He would not be your equal...but if you asked him for critique he would do it very well.

You do not have to be a brilliant singer to be able to give constructive criticism. It is more important to have a good ear.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Absolutely. The person offering critiques must know their limitations as well.  I frequently have admitted that I lack the ability to critique many styles as well as ability levels.  At times when asked to critique, I have opening admitted "This exceeds my ability level", meaning if the goal is to help another person, and some ego is shelved, it can be a great process..  BUT, I think the person requesting the critique should state what they wish for out've the process too. In my case I don't believe it's in my best interest to start limiting who critiques my singing, because if I admit I can't hear myself with ANY objectivity yet. The only person I can establish for certain shouldn't be critiquing me,  is me... Yet I do it anyway

Respecting boundaries is important in this process..  Since I consider ALL who sing, my seniors.  It makes it easier.  Hopefully years down the road, I'll have progressed a little upwards on the heirarchy of ability, yet for now I just try to keep it honest and tactful realizing that to do otherwise is ultimately shooting myself in the foot.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

In this particular case you seem to be saying that you'd prefer a critique in a more formal setting among musician-singers-singing coaches as opposed to most on these sites, and of course that too is your perrogative.  The singer has every right to ask for what it is they want, yet as pointed out there might be somebody who isn't "A singer" but is familiar with the song and genre who can offer you well delivered constructive opinion too, even of a technical nature. What MIGHT be missing will be terms such as Tessatora, glotal passageway, etc.  However nobody wants a critique from a person that  hasn't a clue what they are talking about.  CLosest I've seen to those critiques are..

"Awesum delivery- a 10+++++++ (and the only reason I'm only giving 7 pluses  is
because I didn't listen to the song to determine whether or not it's 8 pluses)
This RULES DUDE !"

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

[font=Comic Sans MS]Well, I agree that not only people that can sing can give constructive criticism, but for me they have to be into music in a way or another, like songwriters, coaches, people that can play an instrument...etc (not any who can handle a mic is competent enough).
Yeah, they have to know what they are talking about...but mostly the contrary is the case.
Good ears? Right, but how can you have some, if you have no clue about music?
Btw...A good critic is able to say his opinion on every genre and is not hiding behind just one, true?
It's the same with comments...just because YOU are not into country, show tunes or foreign language (just an example), but are stuck yourself into oldies, you don't give others a chance? Not fair, I would say...[/font]

Not true,  Reason being we all have limited exposure to genres of music based on our age, and geography and times.. Critique means "a careful analysis", or scrutiny.  How can I carefully analyze a style I'm not familiar with ?

We ALL can have our opinions, and criticize anything we want I suppose, yet "Critique" is for the benefit of another person in this sense. A person doesn't ask for Critiques because they wish to become a dartboard for unfounded opinion, and negative (nasty) remarks about how crappy they are.. (Well I pretend I do, but that's just me). They instead allow themselves to become somewhat vulnerable for future gain, meaning they want to learn their craft or improve at it..

How many of the best singers NEVER received outside help ?

I look at it this way. If a person cringes because of something I am doing when I sing, or thinks something stinks... Others likely feel the same way WHETHER I am told or not.. So conventionally, I stink whether I am told it by those wishing to be honest, or given 10 ranks (and laughed at)..Personally, I'd rather KNOW the truth BEFORE I get a fathead, If I have two choices, to sound decent at singing, or to stink at singing, why would I wish to stink at it ?  (This is how I look at it).. Although as I stated one advantage to stinking is it's less stressful..HAHAHA, I however have alot of respect for the arts, or any aesthetic display (Otherwise there's always closet singing but that's not what we do here). I believe if a person wishes to perform something, they should do the best they can EVEN when playing a game. (Just my opinion based upon my own conditioning)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

[font=Comic Sans MS]Where are the Idol judges? We need  them here  LOL
Be happy you are not in Germany...our judges are sooo bad...You'd hear things like "You sound like a sheep that came to close to an electric fence", or "I'm sounding better when I'm pooping, than you singing"  LOL
They're very honest though [/font]

Two different things "Idol Judges" and "Serious Musicians Critiquing Singers".  TOTALLY different..  One is worried about show ratings,  their own image as judges that are onstage acting too.. The other is TRULY trying to help those sharing a common interest improve..I was raised with the rill Sgt: standing over me type strictness in music though.. I got my knuckes smacked with a ruler playing piano if my hand positioning was wrong, etc.  Got cardboard tied under my chin because I looked at my fingers...  Still love music though, (Just not classical)LOL

I've known quite a few German women and had a German Grandmother.



and that was when she was happy !  Men were very afraid of her otherwise. The German women of the two older generations that I've known were tough women !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

[font=Comic Sans MS]I'm so sorry Steven, but that's too funny  LMAO  LMAO [/font]

Yeah,  things were pretty different in those days.. but I was 4 years old too.. I still remember screaming and throwing a tantrum when my mom left the piano studio because her being there was too distracting..  I had a strict performing arts upbringing.. (and all I have to show for it is this bumber sticker). Recitals and performing before I could construct a sentence.. I have no regrets either  Just wish I was a tough enough person to go further than I did in a BRUTAL area.

It's not so much the smacks on the knuckles with a newspaper that annoyed me years later pushing me out've classical piano, But Mr Williford had HORRIBLE breath !  I think that was the final straw  LOL  and quiting wasn't easy,  I had to BEG my mom to let me quit piano lessons.  So I was put in jazz instead with John Mohegan  He'd sit there drinking with the TV on watching soap operas bored xitless.  I suppose if I have a regret, it's NOT having such an opportunity to study with a great jazz pianist about 40 years later when something might've come out've the tough area of music, I was WAY to young when I tool jazz piano... NOW, I'd love that chance

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".