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Obviously someone complained about it enough.  Either the singers or the bar owner.

I hear what you're saying about being paying customers.  But at the same time they are being paid to do a show.    Some of them could have sat out every other round to not appear like they were the singing hogs.   If it was my show i, as the host would not have sang.

Why would I ask ANYONE beit family or friends to sit out just because they are related?  That's idiodic.  If they are spending customers just like anyone else, then the bar shouldn't have anything to say about it.  I wouldn't THINK of asking my family to sit out every other round or so just because they were related to me.  My family like anyone else who are out to sing, like to sing.  They go to a show with a great system, selection & host.  Should I tell them to spend their money elsewhere because it's upsetting our bar manager or some of our regulars?  That's the entire point of karaoke in a bar is to generate revenue by bringing people in for the bar.   Shouldn't matter who it is & singing, as long as they a spending.
Once again, IF the family wasn't spending & getting special treatment from the related host, then YES there is a problem & I could see the host getting fired.

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If the family is there are you (as the host) singing all night also?    He probably was.
I'll also give you that their system probably wasn't the greatest.

I agree but it's how the other paying singing customers and some bar owners "look" at it.

Some bar owners look at it like "I'm not paying you (host) to sing all night."

We all know how some singers BYTCH about it.

They don't have to sing back to back.  I would spread them out among the other singers to at least give the (you karaoke magicians will like this word) "illusion" that they aren't hogging up the singing time.

I believe my last posting resulted in this shift to discussing family members participation at karaoke shows.

I had offered a theory to MrD, which has basis in fact, as to why his wife's efforts may not be acknowledged by the crowd -- there maybe those who view her as part of the show (regardless of how much he/she spends).  Furthermore, while some expect the KJ to sing (I wish they wouldn't) if both the KJ and the KJ's spouse sing in each rotation there may be those who resent that the number of available turns at singing (over the course of an evening) is being diminished by the KJ and his/her spouse.

We're dealing here, if nothing else with PERCEPTIONS.  And perceptions don't always reflect the reality of the circumstances.   If people perceive that there is something unfair going on, and decide to go elsewhere, they have voted with their wallets as to how the KJ should approach the situation.  If no one has a problem with the KJ's whole family singing, then there is no problem.  If fifteen people avoid the show because of it, there is a problem.  Are we as human beings always aware of what others are thinking?  Obviously not.  So, I try to error on the side of being cautious.  My son knows when he comes to my show I might skip him altogether, in order to put in a new singer.

Didn't we recently have a thread about whether or not the KJ should sing?  So, I  now ask, should both the KJ and the KJ's spouse sing at a show, even if they are buying dinner and drinks while putting on the show?

PS:  SW you clearly have no concept of how to do anything at a show other than queue up karaoke.  May I suggest you take up  magic and disappear?

PS:  SW you clearly have no concept of how to do anything at a show other than queue up karaoke.  May I suggest you take up  magic and disappear?

What does this have to do with anything we are disccussing.  :dontknow:  And what bothers you?

Earlier barb in this thread from SW



Any of us who have talents beyond queueing up karaoke use those talents when the circumstances call for them.  I don't use them to put off singers who are waiting to sing, I don't use them to show-off, and I don't use my talents to compete with singers while they sing!!!  I use them, in short, to add to the entertainment value of my show!

Karaoke is the entertainment or at least it should be and that is the entertainment value.    Magic and other things are a distraction from the singers.   If you do it while someone is singing you are stealing their thunder because many of the listeners are too busy watch Houdini instead of the singers.  Maybe that's why nobody claps for the singers, because the host has to be the center of attention and the crowd is too busy with non karaoke distractions to be paying attention.   Disruption of any kind is a distraction.  They may as well be yelling at the singer to keep their day job.   If you do it between singers you take up singing time because everyone is paying ATTENTION to you.

NEWS FLASH>>>>>>>> :ideagrin:   Playing karaoke music is my only job, when i'm at karaoke doing my show.

To me adding those things is like saying..... "We have some karaoke tonight  :asleep: and if that doesn't float your boat on this regularly scheduled karaoke night, we have many other diversions  and distractions  :asleep: and disruptions  :asleep: for your entertainment pleasure and value."    "So sit back and sip your water because we have a show (of some kind) for you."     "Let's see first up we have "Eric the Great" interupted sometime by Bob that drove 20 miles.  He wants to "sing" some boring karaoke song  :asleep: and then the "disco dancers" will take the stage..."   "And Hey...Stay in your seats for the fog, laser lights and fireworks later synchronized to Mary singing her karaoke rendition of God Bless America."   Now that's.... entertainment....or something we haven't quite figured out a name for yet.  :hug:

I as a host won't sing unless it's necessary to do so.  So no I wouldn't be singing every round.  I personally will only sing if someone asks me to be a duet partner or if I get requests & then ONLY at the end of a round.  But if none of these occur, I don't believe a host should be singing, that's just taking away time that others could be using.



WOuldn't matter, if the family is paying, they are equally allowed to sing just like anyone else.



But yet you admitted you would.



SIngers will complain about anything, so what.  If the family turns in their slips & are all back to back, then that will be the way that rotation lies.  No one is hogging anything, anyone had the same opportunity to turn their slips in as well.
I've come in & on many nights i'll already have slips up on my counter waiting - people whine about that too thinking they are going to be the first, when I already have 5-10 slips up already.

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But yet you admitted you would.

In a heartbeat, If nobody else is singing or if the rotation is short and boring.    My judgement call to keep everyone there and entertained and happy and spending money.   I'm not going to sit back and have singers that only sing classic country and slow songs kill the crowd if there is something i can do about it by injecting something up beat.   I'll sing in every rotation that i feel is necessary to maintain a fairly up beat mood.     This all comes down to my ability to read the listeners mood and make adjustments that will keep them there.     You've had those nights where it seems that only the crowd killing singers show up.    I want all the singers in the world to come to my shows, but some of them are not conducive to an entertaining night.    If i couldn't sing something upbeat, i would probably leave myself..   Not that they are bad singers, on the contrary, but it's there choice of songs.    You can only listen to so many classic country songs before you're so depressed your heading for the nearest bridge.  LMAO

It comes down to me singing or the cash register is going to fall silent.       The smart bar owner will let me sing.    Actually i can't recall a bar owner ever saying anything about the amount of singing i do.    It could have happened.     They want to hear music or they think you're not working or at least not earning your pay.    

I really am entertaining.

If there are singers who want to sing I don't think the host/KJ should sing at all. The only time I think they should sing is if no one wants to sing. They're not there to sing, they are there to serve the bar patrons and to make them happy.

As long as there are singers, they should sing all night even if there are just a few. If there are only a few singers and they have already sung 4-5 times then it's permissable for the KJ to sing a song. If the bar patrons are asking the KJ to sing and they are sincere and really want them to sing, then they should sing. It's all about making the customers happy.  This is my opinion and nothing more.

There is more going on than meets your eye.   Should boring singers be left alone to kill the crowd with no KJ intervention?

If you were doing your show and someone insisted on their 90 year old deaf, dumb and blind granny singing a set with you, would you let it happen if the crowd started leaving?  

I think the KJ has a responsibility to sing to keep the "majority" of the crowd there and happy.   If a singer gets mad at me for trying to keep the crowd happy because "they" think i shouldn't sing, then what.   Karaoke is all about the singers, but i have never seen a karaoke night that can survive financially, with only the singers money to rely on.     Do you entertain only to a certain segment of the audience or do you try to appeal to the MAJORITY.    Your song selections could very well pi$$ someone off enough to leave.    You nor i will ever be able to completely satisfy everyone there.    So the next best thing is....the majority.

Maybe you haven't paid enough attention at karaoke to the crowd reactions to some of the bad singers or boring song selections.     From years of experience, if the lisetners which always comprise the majority of the crowd are getting restless from the bad and boring singers, they will leave taking a majority of the income with them.    And you think i should not sing in order to prevent that from happening?     I don't sing to show off, most of the time i'm singing to maintain an upbeat atmosphere.     Practicing good business sense.  

Making money #1.  

Keeping singers happy #2  

Keeping everyone else there  #1 &#2 combined.   It's not easy being me.

If i wouldn't sing to keep the crowd happy, just so you can be happy, the bar owner may very well pull my plug and then you don't have a karaoke night to complain about.   You may have to be sacrificed for the good of the majority.   Nothing personal but i have a job to do.

The minority never gets it's way.

I think the KJ should sing at least once a night no matter how large the rotation (note, I am not a KJ).  Why?  Because KJ's like music alot, and it seems only fair to let them sing once.  I like to see what songs they pick and how they sing.  

But what were we talking about---oh yeah, the cold shoulder.  The bad thing is that the guy who got the cold shoulder quit singing.  To me that indicates that it wasn't his personality that was causing the situation.  There have been a wide variety of responses on this, and as some have noted, response will vary from bar to bar, and every KJ is different on how things are done as well.  Bottom line it seems is that a small bit of encouragement will probably get the guy back in the rotation, and that would be a good thing.  You have to have slightly thick skin to sing karaoke, and at the lowest of low points, you have to remember how much you like singing...and step back up to the mic.

I have several singers that get really mad about the lack of audience participation/appreciation.    They tell me about their frustration.    I have others that won't perform unless the crowd is the right size.   Meaning big enough for them to spend their energy entertaining the crowd.

I have a set of plastic clappers i think i will start using them at the show.  They make a good bit of clapping noise.

Maybe an investment in several dozen would be a good idea.  Hand them out and get them back at the end of the night.   Tell people you want to hear them after every song.    Like a game kind of challenge.

Maybe have a clapping contest.  The singers or table that makes the most noise can get an extra song.    Let them fight over who sings it.

Could really help the crowd/singer participation.

SW

Clearly, one of the things that so "endears" you to so many is your know-it-all attitude.  But it's not just your demeanor, it's how you have a way of seeing the world and circumstances in your own light.  And I'm not being philosophical here.  You get a scant few facts and build a mountain out of them.  Then you spout off about the mountain you have built.  If you don't like the scenarios THAT YOU HAVE CREATED, why do you create them?

NOW THESE ARE FACTS:  No one in any thread specifically said that they do things (magic or anything else) that will distract attention from someone who is singing.  I made it clear in my least post I don't compete with anyone when I do what I do.  Nonetheless, you have twice voiced your concern about taking "thunder" away from the singers.

Then there were YOUR PERCEPTIONS and ramblings about DBK's latest gig which have no basis in reality.

Pluhleze, aside from learning magic, you need a course in comprehension AND logic.  You continously come up with "facto's" where there are no "ipso's"

EDIT:  It was I who has maintined that it is part of the kJ's job to make sure each singer is acknowledged (i.e. is the center of attention).   You're the one who indicated you were to busy to do so.  Doing what?  Singing yourself?  You know what?   I agree with those who have concluded that you do talk out of both sides of both of your orifices at the same time!!

But singing every song yourself instead of TRYING to get other people up makes you look like the egotistical host that feels everyone is there for you only no matter if they want to sing or not.  9 out of 10 times you CAN get someone that may not have wanted to ever sing before - UP!  Just need to get out in the crowd & encourage them & not try to be the entertainer.  There are ways to do it.

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Well I know for a fact at my shows if a 90 year old granny came in to sing, whatever she sang, she WOULD be applauded & accepted because she at least tried - good or bad.



Well then you aren't bringing in the right crowd.  I get compliments all the time from singers (had another tonight as a matter of fact) that I am not one of these hosts that feel the need to sing & try to 'show up' the singers that are spending the money to have fun - good or bad.  I am not there to sing, I am there to moderate the rotation, keep it fair, mix a good sound & try to have fun with the crowd.  I will sing if it's called for.  Never seen a bar that can survive financially on the singers money to rely on?  That IS a major part of what is keeping our bar alive for 15 years!  Otherwise they would go with something else & I would've been out of a job years ago!



Maybe you just hear the whiners, we get a pretty diverse crowd & everyone applauds everyone regardless of genres.  I have members of a death metal band in almost every night that supports everyone - even the guy who sings from old Eddie Arnold tunes - they appreciate the fact that people enjoy to sing & have fun.  Our bar staff wouldn't want it any other way.  If I were at a  point that I needed to sing every song, I'm pretty sure they would look at some other form of entertainment.



Yep making money & keeping singers happy is the priority, by the host singing is not getting singers up or would be singers interested.  I go out in the crowd & encourage these would be singers & they actually get up and try instead of me thinking i'm the entertainer if I don't get a slip for a night.  I honestly wouldn't want to be you by the way you describe yourself.  I'd probably be out of a job.....!



If I HAD to sing to keep the crowd happy then I would seriously look into another club honestly or convert my show into a show the crowd WOULD be happy with.  If it don't involve 'pure' karaoke then so beit!

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WHAT IS GOING TO BE TAKING UP THE DEAD AIR while i walk around and kiss everyone's a$$ that may not be ready to sing yet?  Do we listen to crickets chirp?

Yep making money & keeping singers happy is the priority, by the host singing is not getting singers up or would be singers interested.  I go out in the crowd & encourage these would be singers & they actually get up and try instead of me thinking i'm the entertainer if I don't get a slip for a night.  I honestly wouldn't want to be you by the way you describe yourself.  I'd probably be out of a job.....!

And while you have all this time to be out in the crowd, what's playing music wise?    Who's singing if you aren't and nobody else is?    You doing card tricks?    What's the entertainment at that exact moment?   Dance songs?  

It's time to "start" the show and you have no singers.  What's the procedure?   Walk around in SILENCE while i beg for singers?    No music until i get a singer?    I got 4 hours people, take you time.    No rush, and no noise.

The choice is host singing or crickets chirping.

Well then you aren't bringing in the right crowd.  I get compliments all the time from singers (had another tonight as a matter of fact) that I am not one of these hosts that feel the need to sing & try to 'show up' the singers that are spending the money to have fun - good or bad.  I am not there to sing, I am there to moderate the rotation, keep it fair, mix a good sound & try to have fun with the crowd.  I will sing if it's called for.  Never seen a bar that can survive financially on the singers money to rely on?  That IS a major part of what is keeping our bar alive for 15 years!  Otherwise they would go with something else & I would've been out of a job years ago!

The bar is full.   I don't sing all night, if there are other singers.    But until there are other singers i do.     That's part of karaoke.   I don't do it to show off.  I do it to get the show started.  If there aren't any singers who am i showing up?   Complaining cry baby singers need to see the big picture.   If the songs they selected to sing all night were actually entertaining the listeners without boring them to the point that they want to leave, then i wouldn't have to jump in to the rotation to wake everybody up.

If you only had 10-20 singers every night, nobody else.   Would the bar survive on the money they spend?     So keeping the listenes happy and there is what i do.    They can't get bored or they will leave the bar needs their money to survive too.   More than the singers money.

Well I know for a fact at my shows if a 90 year old granny came in to sing, whatever she sang, she WOULD be applauded & accepted because she at least tried - good or bad.  

That's not what i said.   If she was the only singer and the bar was packed, what would you do?   Let her keep singing until all the listeners leave?    Without singing something to let them know it wouldn't be like this all night long?    An idiot KJ would stand back and watch everyone leave.  A smart KJ would inject something upbeat in between her songs.   I'll let her sing all night, but i also know that the odds of her killing the crowd are going higher with each song.  I HAVE SEEN THIS HAPPEN.

Dead air is covered by regular music or I will play a karaoke disc with just the music playing & letting people see the screen & start singing from their chairs.  I am not the star of the show, nor do I intend to try.  I am there to facilitate entertainment, however the crowd demands it.  I am not strictly karaoke all the time, but 99% of the time yes it is.  
I honestly wouldn't WANT you to be like me, you might actually open your mind & learn something instead of putting every idea that anyone has down that don't agree with your own beliefs.  It's getting VERY tiresome.



Answered above. 



I'll start my show & may sing a couple songs to get things going but am not going to sing all night long, I will go in the audience & try to encourage singers to come up.  



Answered above.



Again, I will start the show off but that's about it.  If no one is singing I will go out & encourage them to get up since it is about the singer, not me.



Well 9 out of 10 times the non-singers come in WITH the singers, so they won't leave the bar if their singing friends want to continue to sing.  Our singers are there to have fun & tabs can ring out pretty high at the end of the nights.  We get non-singers that will actually come in to watch the show all night.  Any karaoke club will have more non-singers than singers, but again, most of the time the non-singers are there for or with the singers.



If the bar was packed I seriously doubt that would ever remotely become an issue.  But yes if she was the only singer then she would be the only singer (again, unrealistic scenerio in a packed karaoke house).  This would be one of those only times that I would either sing just to give the other singer more time to find their next song or would play regular music & get out in the crowd & encourage singers to get up - again, unrealistic scenerio in a packed house.

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If the bar was packed I seriously doubt that would ever remotely become an issue.  But yes if she was the only singer then she would be the only singer (again, unrealistic scenerio in a packed karaoke house).  This would be one of those only times that I would either sing just to give the other singer more time to find their next song or would play regular music & get out in the crowd & encourage singers to get up - again, unrealistic scenerio in a packed house. _________________

It's realistic in the beginning of the night when nobody else is ready to sing.   Not a 90 year old but a late 50s early 60s guy & his wife that only sing slow old classic country.  :asleep:   Not saying they weren't good singers but the material choice was boring.    Talent can only go so far if it's boring songs.     And i could see in the crowds eyes that they were already getting antsy and if "they" were going to be all the entertainment that was happening, the crowd was blasting off to another bar.  The beginning of the night is critical.   It sets the tone for what they precieve is going to go on all night long.   That's why i don't want some stupid swearing F** Her Gently song at the beginning or some really horrible singers or boring singers.   If these F* Bomb songs are going to be sung it's not in the critical first 3 hours.    :no:   They can live it up in the last who gives a crap hour.     That is the reason i try to keep everything lively and up beat in the beginning.    So they can get an idea that it will be entertaining and fun to stick around a while longer.    Dispite Mr & Mrs Crowd Killer or Young Punk Jerkwad.

It's the first impression thing and i firmly believe that the first 1/2 hour to 1 hour is the most critical time.   It could easily make or break the night.   This is the time when people coming in stand at the door looking around trying to assess what's happening and if it looks like it going to be fun.   And if people are outside getting ready to come in and they see a mass exodus they aren't even coming in.  They will drive by and if the parking lot looks busy they will stop.  If it's dead its a drive by to the next stop.     Nobody going out wants to feel like they missed something somewhere.

Ever see the crowd switch bars around midnight?    The people in this bar want to go to that bar and the people at that bar come to this bar.    They think they could be missing something by staying where they are.

The first note i play is karaoke.  No regular music even at the beginning of the night.  It's either jukebox till i start or silence.     Once the karaoke starts it doesn't stop.    So if i don't start singing we'll listen to the "Sounds Of Silence."  

I know that there has to be more KJs than just me that sings the first song.  I have seen lots of people make up their mind about leaving in 10 15 seconds after entering.   They heard something they didn't want to hear or think they would be hearing all night long.    This is what i'm trying to prevent.    I want them to make up their mind to stay longer.   If all you got at that time is Mr & Mrs Crowd Killer  you have a real uphill battle on your hands.

So then it's the bar owner wants me to sing or watch the crowd leave.  What will you pick?

I have mr & mrs 60 year old singer that does the old country (Eddie Arnold, Frawlin Huskey, Johnny Horton, etc) every night and guess what, they are accepted by the crowd - young & old alike applaud each time & will actually request them to do old songs for them.  Guess it's how you portray your show & train you audience to appreciate all singers.  
I'm sure most hosts will open their own show, I will always sing first song just to make sure everything is working correctly, but that is the extent of my singing unless it becomes warranted - ie duet partner, special requests, break up a ballad set.  I do not put myself in the rotation at any time otherwise like other hosts will, I worked for one that would put herself up directly after anyone she thought was better than her - regardless of rotation.  I'm not going to take a spot from a singer because I want to sing.  I have nights off I can go out & sing if I feel the need.
We don't allow the F-Bomb songs so that isn't an issue either.  Our 20+ year old singers will typically sing 70's-90's music & rarely complain that we don't have their favorite f-bomb song - especially after I explain why the bar stopped them in the first place.

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